Odyssey Marine Article...

[capt dom]

Guys... Girls... Fellow treasure hunters....
and all the rest of you out there...

The reason I have so much passion for this debate and the under laying issue
is I have lived - slept and ate it for over 25 years!...

Unbeknown to most, I sat in meetings back in the early 1990"s
in front of Ambassadors and Cultural Affairs Ministers of the Country's of Origin
Bolivia, Colombia, Peru and Mexico and discussed the concept of re- patriation
of artifacts and do you know what we all agreed upon.....?

The true story of the systematic stripping of cultural and natural resources of the
peoples and nations of origins was the real story and the platform to retell that story
is the true treasure we can bring to the present and future.....

I truly wish I could bring this story to the public eye more articulately or succinctly
how, a series of in bread "royal" families (look at their chins by philip the 4th)ruling
the, then called, the "spains" exterminated over eleven civilizations in the name of
"Jesus" - while stripping a whole continent of its
apparent surface natural and valuable resources.....

But, that was then.... and this is now....

As I grow older.... just attempting to blow some of the bull crap aside, while doing my small part
to help keep the age of discovery alive
seems enough for me
along with grabbing a little of my share
along the way....

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[PDJ]

Capt Dom,
Great post
Thanks

 

[Alexandre]

If there is enough to go around, I'd even help out those countries in need. All I need is enough to not have to worry about the mortgage company foreclosing on my house and to continue the search. Gee, sounds kind of saintly doesn't it? St. John Aquanut. Now doesn't that have a nice ring to it? church bells....heavenly choirs...angel wings...

Aquanut

Hey, I also have a mortgage and a kid to feed but not only I haven't been sending what I find to Spain (or Bolivia, or Peru, or India, or whatever) I also have not sold a thing. INA does it too...

 

[jeff k]

http://executive-magazine.com/getarticle.php?article=12835

 

[trinidad]

Something like that could have be done when a shipwreck occurred close to Barbate, in Spain, some years ago. At that moment, a ship from Odyssey was in Gibraltar (an hour of navigation) with a high depth ROV aboard and another ship, belonging to the Spains Army and specifically prepared for underwater works at high depths was really close to the point of the shipwreck. The goal was to tie the shipwreck and pulling it to a shallow water zone. This two possibilities were dismissed (to say the truth, Odyssey´s possibility was no even considered) because the "political opportunity". The spanish Gov. contracted a ROV and some specialists. They spent almost a week trying to tie up the ship, that had some fisherman´s bodies inside and some prisoned on their nets. A very small and light ROV and a slight knowledge of the strong streams in the area were the main reasons for the long last recovery. Some of the bodies were never recovered. Not every body or Gov. like to ask help from a "treasure hunter" company. Not humanitarian reasons when a civilized Gov. have to show how tough it is against "pirates".

 

[Panfilo]

Its hard to understand exactly what it is your trying to say Trinidad, as the logical comment, after reading the news article that Jeff K posted is something like “Wow, how admirable an offer and a service Odyssey has performed for the Lebanese people, especially to the families of the victims whose bodies were located and recovered by the generous assistance that this company performed at no cost!”
After reading your post one can only feel shame for the Spanish government who would rather let the fishermen’s bodies rot in the ocean floor rather than ask a prominent company like Odyssey which had/has committed no crime (remember that the presumption of innocence does apply also in Spain) with the only concern in mind of helping the families of the deceased reach closure with their loss.

It is very surprising how the Spanish press (and several of its citizens) always refers to Odyssey in a despective way using “cazatesoros” as an insult. The truth be said Trinidad real “cazatesoros” as are depicted in the Spanish press don’t take their findings to an Admiralty judge and seldom operate under a government license. There is a great difference between a pirate or “cazatesoros” and a legitimate deep sea recovery enterprise that uses state of the art archeological practices and standards. Odyssey recovered some coins from international waters of what they and many of us believe was a commercial function of a military vessel that if the appellate courts overturn the present judgment, Odyssey will keep the coins and be vindicated; all those “cazatesoros” appellatives will prove to be the result of prejudice and too early a judgment with not enough evidence as the Spanish press has done.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

As far as the gold and silver, if Spain wanted it they should have gone and got it theirselves, they didn't mind taking it from the people originally.........

Finders Keepers when its in international waters ........

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Its hard to understand exactly what it is your trying to say Trinidad, as the logical comment, after reading the news article that Jeff K posted is something like “Wow, how admirable an offer and a service Odyssey has performed for the Lebanese people, especially to the families of the victims whose bodies were located and recovered by the generous assistance that this company performed at no cost!”
After reading your post one can only feel shame for the Spanish government who would rather let the fishermen’s bodies rot in the ocean floor rather than ask a prominent company like Odyssey which had/has committed no crime (remember that the presumption of innocence does apply also in Spain) with the only concern in mind of helping the families of the deceased reach closure with their loss.

It is very surprising how the Spanish press (and several of its citizens) always refers to Odyssey in a despective way using “cazatesoros” as an insult. The truth be said Trinidad real “cazatesoros” as are depicted in the Spanish press don’t take their findings to an Admiralty judge and seldom operate under a government license. There is a great difference between a pirate or “cazatesoros” and a legitimate deep sea recovery enterprise that uses state of the art archeological practices and standards. Odyssey recovered some coins from international waters of what they and many of us believe was a commercial function of a military vessel that if the appellate courts overturn the present judgment, Odyssey will keep the coins and be vindicated; all those “cazatesoros” appellatives will prove to be the result of prejudice and too early a judgment with not enough evidence as the Spanish press has done.

And if they loose Panfilo, What will you say then? At this Stage you have the US government and two judges agreeing
with Spain !
And just to think, they are US judges ! Why didn't Odyssey file with a European court?
trinidad , I think he just hates the Spanish government, end of story. And he supports Odyssey
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

As far as the gold and silver, if Spain wanted it they should have gone and got it theirselves, they didn't mind taking it from the people originally.........

Finders Keepers when its in international waters ........

See that's the problem Treasure Hunter, Spain specifically advised Odyssey to leave it be !! You guys didn't mine taking
North America from the Indians.
Ossy

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Since it sank in the Atlantic Ocean in 1744 was found in international waters and Spain has not attempted to recover it, I don't see why claim is valid. They have only had 265 years to recover it.....

I guess in all fairness though, the Odyssey could charge a recovery fee for their work of say $500 million...

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

1804 to be precise, and it sank off the Portuguese coast, Just ask Claudio, Odyssey did get information from him.
Ossy

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

As far as I have read, there has been no conclusive proof it is from the Mercedes, it does not change the fact it was found in international waters, after laying there for 206 years (using the date 1804), or the fact the silver and gold was never Spains to begin with.

Still say it belongs to Odyssey, and if in the final end it has to be turned over to Spain, Spain should owe a finders fee to Odyssey of at least $250 million. 50% is fair fee since Spain had not even tried to find and recover it or even have the ability to recover it.....

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

As far as I have read, there has been no conclusive proof it is from the Mercedes, it does not change the fact it was found in international waters, after laying there for 206 years (using the date 1804), or the fact the silver and gold was never Spains to begin with.

Still say it belongs to Odyssey, and if in the final end it has to be turned over to Spain, Spain should owe a finders fee to Odyssey of at least $250 million. 50% is fair fee since Spain had not even tried to find and recover it or even have the ability to recover it.....

I am curious how it was determined the silver and gold was never Spain's to begin with?

Very good point SWR.
I just love the reasoning, YOU STOLE IT FIRST ! so we should keep it You didn't want it so we should keep it And my favorite from Greg ( Odyssey ) they threw it over board
How about the truth for a change guys !! I WANT IT ! SO I CAN MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, and if I can use any excuse to take the focus of me I will
Those bad Spaniards, they raped the land so it only fair that I keep it and profit from it !
So who owns all the gold in fort Knox America or the Red Indian? you raped them and their LANDS
Ossy

 

[trinidad]

Ossy, basically, I dont hate spanish Gov. and I dont support Odyssey. Or viceversa. It´s not a question of hate or support. I just want to know the most of the truth that I cant. A lot of lies in this case difficult its complet understanding. And I´ll try to not accept lies from my Gov. or from Odyssey. I wish I could see everything as clear as you do Ossy, but I cant.

 

[Philvis]

Oh, the almost Native Americans were definitely given the shaft on many levels. No one will dispute that. However, it was the Spanish that took their gold and silver in the Southeast and Western parts of the current United States. Just saying...

 

[Panfilo]

Ossy, you say:
And just to think, they are US judges ! Why didn't Odyssey file with a European court?
trinidad , I think he just hates the Spanish government, end of story. And he supports Odyssey
Ossy

First, Odyssey didn’t take the coins to “a European court” Ossy for the simple reason that the United States is the only country in the world, yes, in the world, that will accept jurisdiction on a wreck in international waters. A Spanish court will not; this is a crucial part of this problem that no Spanish reporter has figured out at this late point of the game. You are jumping to conclusions Ossy when you say I hate the Spanish government, nothing is farthest from the truth. I pride myself in my Spanish ancestry and heritage and I am an avid admirer of the present day Nation that has given you its nationality and most of all I love its people and adore its culture. But another thing is the arbitrary position taken by very few government officials in respect to this legal battle. I think it fair to say one can disagree with “the official Spanish government’s position regarding the Odyssey case” for moral, ethical and legal reasons and yet have great admiration and respect for its people, do you not agree Ossy?

My main problems here Ossy are basically two: first I resent the way the Spanish press has covered the story, they are the judges, the jury and Odyssey has been sentenced to death ever since the first day the story hit the news. They said, if you remember, that Odyssey had pillaged (“expolio”) the Mercedes from Spanish waters which we all know is not and was not the case. I have never seen a correction on this grave error, have you Ossy? The word “expolio” is used in every article on this story, quite a premature affirmation if you ask me. The second problem Ossy, and here you are also a participant, is that if indeed the Mercedes was on a commercial mission (and it was!) Spain wad no right to tell Odyssey to leave the Mercedes alone. You might want to read the Law of the Sea Convention and understand why this is so.
Trinidad, you have said some very wise words today and it shows you have an open mind. Indeed, there have been a great deal of lies said here primarily by the Spanish press and by Spanish officials the most scandalous one being that the Mercedes was not on a commercial mission, which is the core essence of the Spanish legal claim on the Mercedes coins. Therefore this claim is deemed to collapse upon itself for lack of veracity or historical sustentation.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Thank you Panfilo. I didn't know that the United States is the only country in the world that will accept jurisdiction on a wreck in international waters. But that being said, Why would two US judges back Spain's claim and agree it was a sovereign vessel
They have seen all the evidence, and of concern is exactly were in international waters was it found?
I'm sure when this is all over, we will all hopefully know the truth.
Panfilo I fully understand your points, And I can say that you know more about this that I do.
As you I love Spain and what concerns me is how the people on the Mercedes died, this was no shipwreck !
If they could talk, what would they say.
Ossy

 

[Panfilo]

Actually Ossy there has only been one judgment at this point of the legal process, US Admiralty courts work in a particular way, a “recommendation” is made and the judge makes his ruling so it would not be exact to say that two judges so far have ruled. Secondly it is believed by judicial experts that an appellate court will rule in a more strict interpretation of the law, more rigorous if I can use that word. If you read Article 96 of the United Nations Convention Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) you can verify that for a ship to be designated as a “Sovereign Vessel” it has to have been on a strictly military non commercial mission and we all know that the Mercedes was carrying personal cargo (one million coins belonging to private merchants) alpaca wool, women and children, many passengers, broken cannons, etc. Now if that is not a commercial mission Ossy, what is? If I were a betting man Ossy I would invest my retirement pension buying Odyssey stock now that they are cheap and make an incredible profit as it is inevitable that the present ruling be overturned if not by the appellate court by the Supreme Court.

The reason I have been so involved in this case is exactly because of what you have said, precisely how the people aboard the Mercedes would be feeling to know that their country is claiming for itself the hard earned money that they earned and paid taxes on and that in justice should belong to their legal descendants, their living heirs.
Feliz Semana Santa!

Panfilo

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Thanks Panfilo, I think if i brought Odyssey shares, Jeff might have a heart attack
I'm sure we will all be waiting for the courts next move.
May you also have a safe and happy Easter
Ossy

 

[Alexandre]

1804 to be precise, and it sank off the Portuguese coast, Just ask Claudio, Odyssey did get information from him.
Ossy

More precisely, within the Portuguese contiguous zone, at 23 NM.