Odyssey Marine Article...

[aquanut]

Panfilo, Well Said!
Capt Dom, Nothing like a good sense of humor when it comes to dealing with the unreasonable!
Trinidada, I agree whole heartedly!
Ossy, What really drives your argument? You have posted a continuous attack on anyone not of the mindset that Spain is all deserving.
Spain, who looted the treasures and cultural heritage of the Americas. Spain, who doesn't bother to search for or recover their own shipwrecks. I think if Spain were to look at their cultural heritage brought to the surface of the oceans, they should get on their knees and kiss the hands of those in the salvage business. Anyway, it seems to me that all the artifacts in private hands will eventually be sold or willed to museums in the end. All those wonderful artifacts can join the millions of others locked away in vault and archives, never to see the light of day...

Aquanut

 

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[aquanut]

Well, it's been six days... I must have the last word...

 

[Saturna]

Well, it's been six days... I must have the last word...

When you're right ... you're right.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Well, it's been six days... I must have the last word...

Sorry aquanut I have been in the US for a week, Don't worry I will respond, just Jetlaged
Ossy

 

[NHBandit]

I'm not at all experienced in this subject and am just a regular guy who works for a living and digs in the dirt on the weekend for old coins so please take that into consideration. If I understand this correctly the Spanish are upset that people who spend, sometimes millions of dollars on research , equipment & manpower are "stealing" treasures from shipwrecks that sank while transporting stuff the Spanish stole from someone else ? Stuff that was lost hundreds or years ago that the Spanish themselves aren't looking for. They just want to take it for free AGAIN... Ya ok..... Isn't that a little bit like finding one of Jesse James stashes & having his family ask for the loot to be returned to them ?

 

[aquanut]

NHbandit,

Smarter than the average Bear!

Aquanut

 

[capt dom]

The rats are guarding the cheese...

 

[jeff k]

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy,
You really do contradict your value system when it regards historical heritage being protected. You may want to visit one of Spain's victims of conquest so you can get a grasp on the reality of the cultural heritage they obliterated. Visit my wife's homeland of Peru for instance. You should check out Cusco and all it's Inca majesty...oh wait, most of it was decimated by the Spanish. All the "cultural" items of value were stripped down, stolen, and melted to be sent back home to the treasury of the Kingdom of Spain.

By closing the archives to only what you consider legitimate academic interest is soooooo 16th century in thinking. What is Spain scared of? Are they afraid someone else is going to find some shipwrecks that contain the remnants of South American cultures they destroyed? Spain just needs to let go and realize they are no longer the conquerors they were in the 16th and 17th century. I find it amazing the Spanish government can cede defeat to Al Qaeda and submit to their wishes, but when it comes to plunder from the 16-18th centuries they stand firm!

Oh and Capt Dom...it does because it can!

I didn't say close the archives, I said it should be controlled.
" The Spanish government can cede defeat to Al Qaeda and submit to their wishes " What the
The Spanish pulled out of Iraq, they were not interested in controlling oil wells.
But they are very involved in Afghanistan fighting Al Qaeda !
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/02/12/afghanistan.spain/index.html
Philvis, do you really think the English, French, Dutch would have done anything any different, if they would have been the first to the new world.
Stop attacking Spain and look in your own back yard, my friend. We all the same, and yes, we should all learn from our mistakes.
I am against any war ! How much does the US spend on defence? You could all have free health care, homes for the poor and food for all.
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Panfilo, Well Said!
Capt Dom, Nothing like a good sense of humor when it comes to dealing with the unreasonable!
Trinidada, I agree whole heartedly!
Ossy, What really drives your argument? You have posted a continuous attack on anyone not of the mindset that Spain is all deserving.
Spain, who looted the treasures and cultural heritage of the Americas. Spain, who doesn't bother to search for or recover their own shipwrecks. I think if Spain were to look at their cultural heritage brought to the surface of the oceans, they should get on their knees and kiss the hands of those in the salvage business. Anyway, it seems to me that all the artifacts in private hands will eventually be sold or willed to museums in the end. All those wonderful artifacts can join the millions of others locked away in vault and archives, never to see the light of day...

Aquanut

Aquanut, I am one eyed, when it comes to Spain, but I am sick of the " They Looted the Americas" crap, every time Spain
makes comment of its cultural heritage.
If you all feel so bad about it, why don't you give a share of any treasure you find back to Peru, Mexico etc !!! anybody??
Dom, I do agree you are a funny guy
Ossy

 

[aquanut]

Ossy,
Spain looted those countries, not us. Their treasure is not part of Spains cultural heritage. I'm not a bunny hugger or guilt ridden liberal either so I don't feel the need to send hard earned treasure to a country looted by Spain.
Spain, on the other hand wants to sit back and steal it from us, after we spent our money, time and effort, not to mention risking our lives to get it.
Aquanut

 

[Salvor6]

Ossy maybe you can understand this: Spain looted it from the new world. Now, Odyssey is looting it from Spain. OK?

 

[mariner]

Like it or not, there is a difference between Spoils of War and Illegally procured items.

Mariner

 

[Philvis]

Ossy,
My Al Qaeda reference was to the demands made by Al Qaeda after the Madrid train bombing that the government of Spain complied with. I was merely using that as a point that the Spanish government backs down to something like that, but are relentless when it comes to gold and silver, correction, items of historical significance.

I understand you cannot turn back the clock on events that happened in the past, nor do I think you can blame anyone in the present day for them. The part I am having a hard time with is Spain's relentless pursuit for their historical heritage and their "rightful" claim of ownership of said items. I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a country can justify gold/silver obtained through less than reputable ways from a subjugated people as being historically significant. It would be like Germany 100 years from now claiming ownership of newly discovered Nazi gold...gold that was obtained as the result of the genocide of a certain people.

I have no particular beef with Spain. I would feel the same way about a cargo of jewels obtained from mines in India if they were on a British ship that went down. If the salvors are not allowed the "newest spoils", then it should go back to the country of origin, where they were pillaged from. Typically those Third World countries need and deserve it more anyhow.

 

[mariner]

Philvis,

Ossy can speak for himself, but I should point out that there has been no "relentless pursuit" of its heritage. It has only got involved when companies like Odyssey have continued a "relentless pursuit" of Spanish shipwrecks. Spain has simply defended irs rights when confronted with the removal of what it sees as theft of its properties, and so far at least, the Courts have agreed with Spain. Remember, it was Odyssety who removed all 500,000 of the coins from the Black Swab site, and not the few artifacts that were necessary undfer the salvage laws to pursue a claim.

I personally don't believe that the Mercedes cargo is immune from salvage under the International Convention on salvage, but I do believe that the laws should be respected, and that the established procedures should be followed to establish who, if anybody, has a right to to a particuilar wreck. If we don't like a particuilar law, then we should try to get it altered, not just ignore and break it.

Mariner

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy maybe you can understand this: Spain looted it from the new world. Now, Odyssey is looting it from Spain. OK?

I'm glad you finally admitted odyssey looted the goods, see we can agree on somethings

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy,
Spain looted those countries, not us. Their treasure is not part of Spains cultural heritage. I'm not a bunny hugger or guilt ridden liberal either so I don't feel the need to send hard earned treasure to a country looted by Spain.
Spain, on the other hand wants to sit back and steal it from us, after we spent our money, time and effort, not to mention risking our lives to get it.
Aquanut

" I don't feel the need to send hard earned TREASURE to a country looted by Spain". double standards
Stop using the Spain Looted crap ! and speak the truth, you just want the treasure and who cares were it came from !
Nobody forces you to spent money and put your life at risk, you do it for your own personal gain.
aquanut it's your choice, this is nothing personal as I respect all your hard work, just stop using Spain as an excuse !
Ossy

 

[aquanut]

That's right Ossy,
I do it for my own personal gain. Has this recently become a sin or something, or is it a convenience for those who will never make the effort to point fingers at those who do as if we're some sort of criminals? Spain is not being used as an excuse because I don't need one. Spain is simply a lazy has been trying to claim something they abandoned hundreds of years ago. Again I say, if it were not for the treasure (and I mean money) aboard those wrecks, Spain wouldn't be interested. I think I've been clear enough as far as my opinion on this matter. So we'll leave it to the courts to work out.
Hasta ma Later...

Aquanut

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

"Nobody forces you to spent money and put your life at risk, you do it for your own personal gain."

Ossy I'm glad we agree that Odyssey spent their money, took the risks and recovered the coins for their gain. So if Spain wants the coins they should have spent THEIR OWN money to recover it themselves. Just like the Mel Fisher Center is spending money to recover the CROWN JEWELS OF SPAIN on the East coast of Florida. Why doesn't Spain do the same? Because spain wants other people to get it and then claim it as cultural heritage. BULL$HIT!

Pete, we are never going to agree on this, So we will take aquanut advise and let the courts decide.
Ossy

 

[Alexandre]

] " I don't feel the need to send hard earned TREASURE to a country looted by Spain". double standards
Stop using the Spain Looted crap ! and speak the truth, you just want the treasure and who cares were it came from !
Nobody forces you to spent money and put your life at risk, you do it for your own personal gain.
aquanut it's your choice, this is nothing personal as I respect all your hard work, just stop using Spain as an excuse !
Ossy

Thanks, Ossy, for letting that issue to hang and dry out in the open.

(maybe Odyssey will deliver those coins to Peru... or is it Bolivia? Maybe the Irakis will send us, Iberians, all the silver they took from Portugal and Spain in the 7th century BC... maybe the US will give back Louisiana and New York... who knows?)