Odyssey Marine Article...

[ivan salis]

shipwreck coins have two "values" -- #1 the raw metal content and /or general collector basic coin value depending upon condition and #2 the fact that is a "historical shipwreck coin" which can make its value jump many many times over its #1 value --a $100 dollar #1 coin can become a $1000 #2 coin in the blink of a eye. -- the value was based on the 1000 dollar mark --of course the coin may or mat not actually sell for $1000 later on but thats its "full priced" possible sell price --or full "sticker" price if it was a new car . --- welcome to the bussiness world.

 

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[ScubaFinder]

Jeff doesn't know, don't answer!!

You crack me up Claudio...

Lubos and I hope to have you doing more important things with your time soon.

Jason

 

[Vox veritas]

shipwreck coins have two "values" -- #1 the raw metal content and /or general collector basic coin value depending upon condition and #2 the fact that is a "historical shipwreck coin" which can make its value jump many many times over its #1 value --a $100 dollar #1 coin can become a $1000 #2 coin in the blink of a eye. -- the value was based on the 1000 dollar mark --of course the coin may or mat not actually sell for $1000 later on but thats its "full priced" possible sell price --or full "sticker" price if it was a new car . --- welcome to the bussiness world.

If, but Odyssey has declared in repeated occasions that they don't know what ship has found. They cannot baptize this way the recovery.

 

[ivan salis]

a shipwreck coin -- off of any shipwreck --is generally worth more than a plain coin. --be it a famous wreck or not --- the coin coming off what is clearly a vast treasure ship (no matter what its "name" is) is thus more "collectible" than one off a ho hum wreck were only a few coins were found . --

they could legally say that their "possibly" coins from the mercedes -- but then in court say its not been proven 100% that its is in fact the mercedes ( because theres a big differance between could be and is. ) --- (I "could be" 12 foot tall --of course I'm not--but I "could be"--- ah the lawyers "words" -- possibly, could be, maybe, might have been , could have been , like , similar ) coulda , woulda, shuolda .

 

[ScubaFinder]

I'm not so sure it's gouging, just marketing. If you hold ALL of the sellable coins, and only sell them for $2,000 a piece...then sure, their market value is $2,000. Will they ever realize their $600 million that way? Absolutely, by "paying" investors in coins at thier "market value". Lots of quotations in there to get the point across, but it's actually quite a brilliant marketing strategy, and not entirely new...if you get my drift. I wouldn't care if I ever sold a coin in a gift shop, the value is solely in their over-inflated valuation. At least that's how I see it, simple really.

And who cares if you keep the coins or not...you just got world-wide press for 2 years. Add to that...everybody now knows your name and knows for sure you can find big treasure. I plan to do things quite a bit differently, but I can't knock their model for anything other than a slight lack of ethics on this particular wreck.

Jason

 

[ScubaFinder]

As simply stated as you put it, yes. But in a market where you control 100% of the product...it's not called over-inflating, it's called pricing. Do you think Mel Fisher's model is much different? He's been doing it for decades...if it was illegal, wouldn't his family be in a bit of trouble?

 

[ScubaFinder]

Point taken, and believe me I wasn't trying to compare the Fisher family to Stemm. However, Atocha silver coins are worth triple what any regular shipwreck coin is worth, solely through marketing and pricing control, none of which is illegal.

 

[Salvor6]

After a one year investigation, the SEC dropped all charges against Seahawk and Morris and Stemm.

 

[jeff k]

After a one year investigation, the SEC dropped all charges against Seahawk and Morris and Stemm.

That's not what happened. There was a trial, and the jury found them not guilty.

 

[jeff k]

After a one year investigation, the SEC dropped all charges against Seahawk and Morris and Stemm.

That's not what happened. There was a trial, and the jury found them not guilty.

sources...please?

I'm surprised you didn't know that, since you act like you're an authority on Odyssey. Sorry, but you'll have to do your own homework. Try Google.

 

[ivan salis]

bottom line--- found NOT liable / guilty -- -- they are one in the same in this case -- if they were found liable they would have been found "guilty" as well. get it ? liable is "guilty" --- not liable is "not guilty" -- fairly simple concept to mentally grasp.

 

[ivan salis]

according to the way the american justice system is set up --once ferman said "I plead" the fifth on tampering with the evidence -- OJ was going to walk --- the only "correct" answer a cop can give to that question is "no" -- to say otherwise is to raise the doubt that police did tamper with the evidence * and if some evidence was tampered with while in police custody , who is to say all of it wasn't ? --either the police's chain of evidence and evidence room is 100% safe or its worthless. --thus the "reasonible" doubt card was slid in -- the jury based upon this by law had "no" choice but to free OJ due to the idot fermans actions. ( even if he did it (which I think he did)--the cops "tainted" the evidence needed to convict him with.--so he walked)--- it called having a good "mouth peice".

 

[mariner]

There is a difference between civil and criminal court requirements for a judgement, of course. In a criminal case, the evidence has to prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil case, it is a matter of the balance of evidence. Also there are different rules about the admissability of evidence. That's why the magistrate did not need it to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the coins came from the Mercedes, and why OJ lost his civil case, but managed to walk free from the criminal case.

Mariner

 

[ivan salis]

yep in civil cases it tends to be its which is more likely A or B ? ---but in crimanial case "more" proof is needed --to beyond a "reasonible" doubt . --- as you say thats why OJ lost the civil case . --they think its more likely than not that he did it -- but the illegal tampering of the evidence by the cops on the criminial case ---let him walk on a "techicality"

 

[4theMoney]

yep in civil cases it tends to be its which is more likely A or B ? ---but in crimanial case "more" proof is needed --to beyond a "reasonible" doubt . --- as you say thats why OJ lost the civil case . --they think its more likely than not that he did it -- but the illegal tampering of the evidence by the cops on the criminial case ---let him walk on a "techicality"

Very nicely put.

 

[jeff k]

British Archaeology Article...

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba106/feat1.shtml

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

" Jose Maria De Alvear is a descendant of Diego De Alvear, the second in command of the Spanish Treasure ship, He is among more than A HUNDRED descendants of the crew of the Mercedes who are supporting the Spanish Governments legal bid to have the treasure returned to Spain !
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4526643,00.html
Ossy

 

[Panfilo]

The information put forth in this article Ossy is not very exact and is misleading. It turns out that in fact don Diego de Alvear did loose his wife Maria Josefa Balbastro and seven of their eight children aboard the Mercedes, Carlos Maria being saved by things of destiny as his mother sent him at the last minute to travel with his father aboard the Medea as he was too much of a nuisance. He later returned to Argentina to join San Martin in the revolutionary effort obviously against his fathers will. His father don Diego, later married a 19 year old British girl and had another eight children, settling in Spain. The rightful heirs to the Mercedes coins are the Argentinean descendants, the descendants of Carlos Maria de Alvear (Balbastro) who lost his mother and seven brothers and sisters, not the Spanish branch who were only a sparkle in don Diego’s eye when the Mercedes blew up. Several Argentinean descendants of this gentleman are in fact claiming the coins not in one but in two separate groups in the Tampa courts, opposite the Spanish claim. The person in the article you referenced is of the Spanish branch that has no moral right to claim anything in my modest opinion, more so if you think that the indemnity the British paid don Diego (50% of what he lost) was “spent” by this branch not the rightful heirs, the Argentineans. The reporter didn’t do his homework which sadly enough is all too common.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Panfilo, I disagree amigo ! any children of Diego De Alvear have as much right as his first children, He was the Father !
don't let your hatred of Spain cloud your thinking. Your anger comes through when you write.
You have a lot of information and know your history, love to hear more.
Ossy

 

[Darren in NC]

Your anger comes through when you write.

Hmmm...I didn't see any anger in the writing. Panfilo has always seemed to be more factual in his posts than emotional.