Odyssey Marine Article...

[trinidad]

On these two links you can read, in english, the allegations of Spain:

http://www.abc.es/gestordocumental/uploads/Cultura/ody_peru_spain_ultimo.pdf

http://www.abc.es/gestordocumental/uploads/Cultura/ody_spain_final.pdf

 

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[jeff k]

ABC/Marx translation...

http://tinyurl.com/m3vv3y

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

I'll post this here and on thread of Robert Marx because has to do with Marx and Odyssey. Simply disgusting. I've just read an interview to R. Marx on an Spanish paper, ABC, and I haven't see something so disgusting in a lot of time. The journalist tries to make appears R. Marx as an angel who saw the light and now denies his past and insults our intelligence throwing trash over Odyssey. And Marx doesn't loose the opportunity and says things that coming from him are hard to read and believe. Whatever for a contract, a permission or, even, an applause from the Spanish audience. Lets wait and we'll see Robert Marx doing, on the way he use to do, a kind of work for Spain that Odyssey had no the way to get. Finally, it's not about what you do but about the things you're able to do to do what you want to do. If things keep going this way, forums about underwater cultural heritage will be rated only for adults.

Here is the link (Jeff, I'm sorry, it's really long to translate):

http://www.abc.es/20090901/cultura-patrimonio/torpedea-futuro-odyssey-200909011605.html

Hola Trinidad ! You have me confused Sounds like you agree with what Odyssey did !
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Spain asks the US to return the treasure with out delay.
http://www.elpais.com/misc/herald/herald.pdf
Ossy

 

[trinidad]

Ossy, I wont agree or disagree until I known exactly what did happen in all this story. And I don't give anything by known, I mean, after reading this ant that, reading the allegations from each part, I don't see Spain proving too many things. Spain probably will win this case but I'm not sure if it will be because the law is on his side or because politic and circumstances make it possible, and that makes me uncomfortable. I rather would like to see a good agreement for all parts involved or an epic legal battle before the Judge where all of us could learn something and see the truth broke up. Of course I want those artifacts as close to me as possible to be able of see them every so often. And I live in Spain, so I want the "treasure" here but it has nothing to do with the way of getting that stuff "back". I don't see pirates where other people do. And I don't see "sites destroyers" neither. I think that interested opinions make this company appears that way, but I can´t think of people acting that horrible way and, at the same time, documenting what they do, going to the judge and putting under the eye of the law the result of their "piratery". I'm spanish, I don't want our underwater cultural heritage destroyed by "treasurehunters", but being spaniard doesn't blind me. I like to known how and why all this mess happened and if there is a way of doing things right. And, yes, I could be a little upset if Spain signs an agreement with R. Marx, a man that I respect, but I respect R. Marx as much at least as I respect Odyssey. I don't understand seeing the same journalist throwing garbage all the time over Odyssey and glorifying R. Marx. I don't have anything against R. Marx, it is the journalist who makes me be suspicious on all this issue. I see all the time a lot of opinion in his articles and a lack of information or, even worse, the intention of confusing the readers and directing their opinion. It's just that. I will agree with the final legal decision but I'm sure that there is an encounter point for companies like Odyssey and Gov.s like Spain. I think.

 

[Saturna]

Spain asks the US to return the treasure with out delay.
http://www.elpais.com/misc/herald/herald.pdf
Ossy

OK, here you go, it's returned to where it came from or maybe not so near where it came from. You look for it and
find it and retrieve it like we did.


Jay

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Spain asks the US to return the treasure with out delay.
http://www.elpais.com/misc/herald/herald.pdf
Ossy

OK, here you go, it's returned to where it came from or maybe not so near where it came from. You look for it and
find it and retrieve it like we did.


Jay

Should strap it to some TNT, then blow it up over the area you got to do it right !
Ossy

 

[mariner]

Saturna,

Well, it's not as if Spain asked Odyssey to remove the coins. The issue only arrises because Odyssey removed all 500,000 coins and not just enough to identify the wreck.

It is not the way it will happen, as the coins are under the control of the Court that Odyssey chose to approach for custody, but I doubt that possession of the coins is top of Spain's list of priorities.

Mariner

 

[Vox veritas]

The trasure is overvalued

Some numbers about the treasure of the "Mercedes" ??

The value of a currency of 8 reales is € 100. So, 600,000 currencies give us € 60 millions or $78 millions, which are very far from those declared 500 million dollars. Why? Jeff surely knows it!!

http://www.filatelialopez.com/catal...e700e3a480fa78bda8&keywords=8+reales&x=6&y=13

http://www.hoy.es/20090902/sociedad/pecio-esta-sobrevalorado-20090902.html
The treasure is overvalued. This article it was published yesterday by declarations of Robert Marx.
Little by little we do come closer to the truth?

 

[Salvor6]

Vox, that article is far from the truth. First of all it claims that Odyssey found the Atocha. What planet do you live on? Odyssey had NOTHING to do with the Atocha. Second, he says the silver coins Odyssey found are worth $10 each. His words are worthless!

 

[Salvor6]

Here is the article in english:
Robert Marx, a world expert on underwater archaeological sites that have participated in more than 3,500 scans, has been the specialist who advised over 20 years Odyssey Marine Explorer. Marx argues that the U.S. company lied about the possible value of the cargo recovered from the Atlantic to fraudulently enrich themselves on the stock exchange, as it did with other Odyssey Spanish galleon, the 'Atocha'.
In his opinion, not plundered the cargo worth more than $ 10 million because, he says, "there is hardly any gold coins, barely reaching 200. As for the 594,000 silver coins, Odyssey has spread the news that could be worth between 1,000 and $ 2,000 each, an absolute falsehood. In the market would not exceed $ 10 per unit.

 

[trinidad]

I have never read a line from Odyssey giving a value of the cargo from the Black Swan. Can anybody tell me where I can find an information like that coming directly from Odyssey?

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox, that article is far from the truth. First of all it claims that Odyssey found the Atocha. What planet do you live on? Odyssey had NOTHING to do with the Atocha. Second, he says the silver coins Odyssey found are worth $10 each. His words are worthless!

Salvor, I said that "maybe" we are near the truth, I didn't say that we end up knowing it!!

 

[Vox veritas]

I have never read a line from Odyssey giving a value of the cargo from the Black Swan. Can anybody tell me where I can find an information like that coming directly from Odyssey?

Trini, they have never denied it after two years!! Why??

 

[jeff k]

Here's Odyssey's position on the value of the coins. As usual, Claudio does not know what he's talking about.

1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?

The Company has not estimated the total potential value of the shipwreck, other than to estimate on a preliminary basis a wide range of potential retail prices based on the coins that have been conserved to date.

What we know is that we have recovered over 500,000 silver coins weighing over 17 tons, along with some gold coins and other artifacts. After conservation of the first 6,000 coins, we requested that a numismatist and one of the world's most experienced coin marketers, Nick Bruyer, inspect the coins and provide an opinion of the retail pricing that we could expect from the collection.

Based on Mr. Bruyer's opinion, Odyssey reported that we expected the retail pricing of the silver coins to range from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin. This wide range of prices would depend on the condition, origin and date of the individual coins. We understand that in a separate interview with a reporter, Mr. Bruyer provided his opinion that the mean retail price of the coins could be approximately $1,000 based on the small sample of coins that he inspected. This was reported as a potential $500 million retail value for the coins, which explains where that figure originated.

Odyssey's position is that until all the coins are conserved, documented and graded, it is impossible to know what the entire collection would bring at retail. Based on the coins that have been conserved to date and that he has been able to inspect, we are comfortable with Mr. Bruyer's opinion that coins from the "Black Swan" will bring from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin retail. These are estimates that could change significantly when the rest of the coins are conserved and do not include the cost of marketing and sales, so actual revenue to Odyssey would be much lower than retail sales prices.

http://shipwreck.net/pr135.php

 

[Vox veritas]

Here's Odyssey's position on the value of the coins. As usual, Claudio does not know what he's talking about.

1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?

The Company has not estimated the total potential value of the shipwreck, other than to estimate on a preliminary basis a wide range of potential retail prices based on the coins that have been conserved to date.

What we know is that we have recovered over 500,000 silver coins weighing over 17 tons, along with some gold coins and other artifacts. After conservation of the first 6,000 coins, we requested that a numismatist and one of the world's most experienced coin marketers, Nick Bruyer, inspect the coins and provide an opinion of the retail pricing that we could expect from the collection.

Based on Mr. Bruyer's opinion, Odyssey reported that we expected the retail pricing of the silver coins to range from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin. This wide range of prices would depend on the condition, origin and date of the individual coins. We understand that in a separate interview with a reporter, Mr. Bruyer provided his opinion that the mean retail price of the coins could be approximately $1,000 based on the small sample of coins that he inspected. This was reported as a potential $500 million retail value for the coins, which explains where that figure originated.

Odyssey's position is that until all the coins are conserved, documented and graded, it is impossible to know what the entire collection would bring at retail. Based on the coins that have been conserved to date and that he has been able to inspect, we are comfortable with Mr. Bruyer's opinion that coins from the "Black Swan" will bring from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin retail. These are estimates that could change significantly when the rest of the coins are conserved and do not include the cost of marketing and sales, so actual revenue to Odyssey would be much lower than retail sales prices.

http://shipwreck.net/pr135.php

This text is very ambiguous, if but not, it can be but it is not, etc. etc. Not very consistent if compared with the thousands of times that it is affirmed in the media to be the value 500 millions.
To be a not very informed person (according to your irrelevant opinion) it is matter to meditate seriously the fact that my information has been used by Odyssey and for the Spanish police (Guardia Civil) in the court of Tampa. Strange but true.

 

[Vox veritas]

May 18, 2007

May 18, 2007.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0518072ship1.html

 

[trinidad]

Vox Veritas, I think I missed something in your message. I have understood that you say that 500$ millions is the value of the "treasure" because everybody says that and Odyssey didn't deny it, but I'm sure you didn't say that. In serious, where any of you have read an exact valuation of the treasure done by somebody in Odyssey? Or from a Ministry in Spain? I went to Google and I just find journalistic estimations repeated again and again and that look more sensationalist than accurates.

 

[Vox veritas]

Here's Odyssey's position on the value of the coins. As usual, Claudio does not know what he's talking about.

1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this?

The Company has not estimated the total potential value of the shipwreck, other than to estimate on a preliminary basis a wide range of potential retail prices based on the coins that have been conserved to date.

What we know is that we have recovered over 500,000 silver coins weighing over 17 tons, along with some gold coins and other artifacts. After conservation of the first 6,000 coins, we requested that a numismatist and one of the world's most experienced coin marketers, Nick Bruyer, inspect the coins and provide an opinion of the retail pricing that we could expect from the collection.

Based on Mr. Bruyer's opinion, Odyssey reported that we expected the retail pricing of the silver coins to range from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin. This wide range of prices would depend on the condition, origin and date of the individual coins. We understand that in a separate interview with a reporter, Mr. Bruyer provided his opinion that the mean retail price of the coins could be approximately $1,000 based on the small sample of coins that he inspected. This was reported as a potential $500 million retail value for the coins, which explains where that figure originated.

Odyssey's position is that until all the coins are conserved, documented and graded, it is impossible to know what the entire collection would bring at retail. Based on the coins that have been conserved to date and that he has been able to inspect, we are comfortable with Mr. Bruyer's opinion that coins from the "Black Swan" will bring from several hundred to four thousand dollars per coin retail. These are estimates that could change significantly when the rest of the coins are conserved and do not include the cost of marketing and sales, so actual revenue to Odyssey would be much lower than retail sales prices.

http://shipwreck.net/pr135.php

Jeff, 500.000 x 1.000 = 500 millions. Greg Stemm told on May 18, 2007

Link:

http://www.gibfocus.gi/details_headlines.php?id=1316

 

[trinidad]

Sorry but my english is really bad today. I´ve visited that web and what I read is the plaintiff´s motion for other shipwreck diferent of the Black Swan. Neither the area nor the deep of the site fix with the Black Swan remains. Excuse me but I dont see where you´re trying to go.