Odyssey Marine Article...

Jeff K said:
Lynn... Ossy is Hispanic, so he does have an agenda. I suspect our new archy friend is Hispanic also.
Click to expand...

Jeff, you always measure the things with two different measures (according to the moment). Thanks to Spain that colonized (for well or for bad) good part of America today, societies like Odyssey and others recover treasures and they are not disgusted to do so and little cares to be HISPANIC. But when somebody criticizes or it doesn't simply share something or somebody of your favorite company, then yes, you discriminate against an HISPANIC, when you should thank that so many shipwrecks have been left in the bottom of the sea. Don't be ingrate!!
P.S. I forgot: the state where you live (Florida) has a Hispanic name and your nation (America) an Italian name!!
 

Claudio... You earn a living by selling research to treasure hunters, but now you are doing your best to discredit Odyssey. I wonder what you would be saying now if they had paid what you asked for, so I wouldn't talk about being two faced if I were you.

I have nothing against Hispanics, but some are prejudiced and do have an agenda.
 

What is the standard for some of the other countries regarding permits and salvage? This article looks as though the government paid dearly for some artifacts.
(no all the type-o's below are not mine)


Diverlynn

The treasure trove making waves
From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday, 18 October, 2008 at 1130 BST on BBC Radio 4.
Simon Worrall explains why a recent discovery on the seabed of the Indian Ocean will revolutionise our understanding of two ancient civilisations.
Part of the most important, marine archaeological discovery ever made in South East Asia.
The exceptional quality of the goods has led some scholars to suggest that these were gifts from the Tang Emperor himself
"The local fishermen believe that there are underwater spirits guarding the wrecks," says Tilman Walterfang, as our boatman picks his way through a maze of coral reefs and submerged rocks.
"Sometimes, they perform prayers on the boats, sacrificing a goat, spreading the blood everywhere, to keep the vessel safe."
I am on a fishing boat in the Gaspar Strait, near Belitung Island, off the south-east coast of Sumatra.
Since time immemorial, this funnel-shaped passage linking the Java Sea and the Indian Ocean has been one of the two main shipping routes. The Malacca Straits is the other, from China to the West.
A British sea captain, shipwrecked here in 1817, called it "the most dangerous area between China and London".

Discovery

Ten years ago, at a spot known locally as "Black Rock", two men diving for sea cucumbers came across a large pile of sand and coral.

Digging a hole, they reached in and pulled out a barnacle-encrusted bowl. Then another. And another.

They had stumbled on the oldest, most important, marine archaeological discovery ever made in South East Asia, an Arab dhow - or ship - built of teak, coconut wood and hibiscus fibre, packed with a treasure that Indiana Jones could only dream of.
There were 63,000 pieces of gold, silver and ceramics from the fabled Tang dynasty, which flourished between the seventh and 10th centuries.
Part of the most important, marine archaeological discovery ever made in South East Asia.
The artefacts from the find are nearly 1,200 years old
Among the artefacts was the largest Tang gold cup ever discovered and some of the finest Yue ware - a porcelain that the ancient Chinese likened to snow because of its delicacy.
The exceptional quality of the goods has led some scholars to suggest that these were gifts from the Tang Emperor himself.
The bulk of the cargo was more homely, including 40,000 Changsha bowls, named after the Changsha kilns in Hunan Province, where they were produced.
Found packed inside tall, earthenware jars, some experts believe bean sprouts were placed between the bowls as a sort of organic bubble-wrap. These brightly painted tea bowls were the Tang equivalent of plastic food containers.

"It looks like they were approaching Tanjung Pandang, the main town on Belitung Island, when they hit the reef," explains Walterfang, the stocky German treasure hunter who salvaged the wreck.


Part of the most important, marine archaeological discovery ever made in South East Asia.
The Belitung wreck is a time capsule that has revolutionised our understanding of two ancient civilisations that fill the airwaves today, China and the Middle East
"They may have come here for water or other supplies. Perhaps there was an emergency. Or even an attack by pirates.
"But we cannot know. It was nearly 1,200 years ago."
Magically, everything was perfectly preserved by a layer of silt. Raised from the seabed more than a millennium later, the gold cups and bronze mirrors, silver boxes and ewers look as fresh as the day they were created.

In 2005, the Singapore government paid more than £20m to acquire the treasure as the centrepiece for a new maritime museum.

But it is not just about bling. The Belitung wreck is a time capsule that has revolutionised our understanding of two ancient civilisations that fill the airwaves today - China and the Middle East.
The serial nature of the cargo - 1,000 miniature funeral urns and 800 identical inkpots - shows that China was mass-producing goods for export several centuries earlier than previously thought.
The Arab dhow, the first of its kind ever found, proves something equally startling - that mariners from the Gulf were trading on a scale, and over distances, unmatched by human beings until Vasco da Gama set sail for India at the end of the 15th Century. Sinbad the Sailor was for real.

Prosperous Basra

One of the Changsha bowls bore a date stamp, "the 16th Day of the seventh Month of the second Year of the Baoli reign", or AD 826. Carbon-14 analysis of some star anise found in the wreck confirmed this as the probable date of the dhow's departure from China.
Most scholars believe it set sail from Canton, or Guangzhou, as it is today, the largest of the five ports servicing the Maritime Silk Route.
Part of the most important, marine archaeological discovery ever made in South East Asia.
China mass-produced export goods centuries earlier than first thought
No-one knows exactly where the dhow was heading when it struck the coral reef.
Its most likely destination was a place familiar to us for other reasons, the Iraqi port of Basra, as it is called today.
In the 9th Century, Basra was one of the wealthiest cities in the world, with a prosperous merchant class hungry for Chinese luxury goods.
Among the most sensational artefacts found in the wreck are three dishes decorated with cobalt from Iran which represent the oldest blue and white ware ever found, setting back by several hundred years the invention of what would become known all over the world simply as "china."
 

Jeff K said:
Claudio... You earn a living by selling research to treasure hunters, but now you are doing your best to discredit Odyssey. I wonder what you would be saying now if they had paid what you asked for, so I wouldn't talk about being two faced if I were you.

I have nothing against Hispanics, but some are prejudiced and do have an agenda.
Click to expand...

Jeff, both we know perfectly details because I don't have any reasons to be friend of the activities of Odyssey.
Personally I don't think that say the truth (so many truths I say that Odyssey had used my book to defend himself) of the facts mean to be enemy of anybody, unless the other part lies. Have you never lied?
 

diverlynn ( quote : I would Watch out ! You'll end up in court too ) :laughing9: :laughing9: :laughing9: What's wrong
does the Truth hurt ? You have eye's , what do you see ???
The problem i have with Odyssey, is they took what is not theirs after being toll not to touch anything by Spain !
I love History and the Truth, what do you like ? some will say I am one sided, but so are you !!!!!!
Jeff K said:
Lynn... Ossy is Hispanic, so he does have an agenda. I suspect our new archy friend is Hispanic also.
Click to expand...
Jeff I'm disappointed with you, Did I hit a nerve ? You have seen the photos , I did ask a question ?
you have an oppion when you want too .
And I'm not Hispanic I'm a very proud Full blooded Spaniard ! What are you ??? I don't hide my profile, like you do !!!
PS I'm also a very proud Australian if you can understand that !!
Plus- Ultra - Ossy
 

Well Jeff ? cat got your tongue !!! why didn't Odyssey bring up a bronze cannon ??? I see your on line.
Should i sign off as Ossy or Spaniard what do you think Jeff ?
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
diverlynn ( quote : I would Watch out ! You'll end up in court too ) :laughing9: :laughing9: :laughing9: What's wrong
does the Truth hurt ? You have eye's , what do you see ???
The problem i have with Odyssey, is they took what is not theirs after being toll not to touch anything by Spain !
I love History and the Truth, what do you like ? some will say I am one sided, but so are you !!!!!!
Jeff K said:
Lynn... Ossy is Hispanic, so he does have an agenda. I suspect our new archy friend is Hispanic also.
Click to expand...
Jeff I'm disappointed with you, Did I hit a nerve ? You have seen the photos , I did ask a question ?
you have an oppion when you want too .
And I'm not Hispanic I'm a very proud Full blooded Spaniard ! What are you ??? I don't hide my profile, like you do !!!
PS I'm also a very proud Australian if you can understand that !!
Plus- Ultra - Ossy
Click to expand...
You never answered my question? Besides provoking, what exactly do yo do for a living, my full-blooded Spanish-Australian friend?
 

4themoney my American friend ! I own a group of tire shops. Its in my profile. nothing to hide unlike some of you
Ossy
diverlynn said:
What's wrong
does the Truth hurt ? You have eye's , what do you see Huh
Click to expand...

A very unlikeable person.


DL
Click to expand...
Nasty, you don't even know me
Ossy
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Well Jeff ? cat got your tongue !!! why didn't Odyssey bring up a bronze cannon ??? I see your on line.
Should i sign off as Ossy or Spaniard what do you think Jeff ?
Click to expand...

This is beginning to sound like the Spanish Inquisition. :(
 

No one mentions the good things that Odyssey did. They salvaged the "China" wreck and saved thousands of pieces of china from a wreck that was in the path of trawlers. Everything they brought up is now in a museum. Nothing was sold. Odyssey employs 4 archaeologists and excavates wrecks in a proper way, recording all the archaeological information using state of the art conservation techniques. What does Spain do with their cultural heritage? They dredge it up and use it for fill material to build a new marina. Face the truth; Spain could not care less for their own cultural heritage, they just want the money.
 

scubasalvor said:
Spain could not care less for their own cultural heritage, they just want the money.
Click to expand...

I don't even think it's the money at this level. Even though these treasures are large amounts to us, they are a fraction of a western countries GDP for a year. Spain's was 1.4 trillion dollars in 2007.

Just for fun, I also checked out Florida's state budget - $64.7 Billion (2005-2006)
How much difference monetarily would it really have made to the state if Mel Fisher handed over all his findings to Florida? (Almost half a billion $ total over 15 years from his website.) That's only $34 Million a year.

Nope, at this national or state level, it's about what it's always ultimately about - power and control and 'face'.
Basically, the same reasons those ships came to be there in the first place.

That's why no country or state looks for these early ships, but as soon as you find one, they all want a piece of it.

Jay
 

Scubasalvor I'm sure Odyssey have done some good things But ! most are avoiding the Mercedes
Questions ! Odyssey spent a lot of time in the Mediterranean and some time in the Atlantic !
I just want to know the truth ! don't you ?
I ask a few questions, But persons such as Jeff k and Diverlynn and others, Lose the plot
and think by calling me Hispanic, it make me less than them :laughing9: :laughing9: I won't say what i think
What does Spain do with their cultural heritage ?? you got to be kidding scubasalvor !!
Have you been to Spain ??? There Musems, there towns with Roman buildings,
their castles are you kidding me !!! Just because Robert Marx made mention of the extension
of the Cadiz harbour. come on now !! and then you make the comment they want the money!
Mate ! it's theirs in the first place and it's only worth something if you sell it to a museum or on EBay
That's what Odyssey do, its their field. The Kingdom of Spain do sell stuff on EBay !!
Ossy
 

Jeff k
Jeff K said:
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Well Jeff ? cat got your tongue !!! why didn't Odyssey bring up a bronze cannon ??? I see your on line.
Should i sign off as Ossy or Spaniard what do you think Jeff ?
Click to expand...

This is beginning to sound like the Spanish Inquisition. :(
Click to expand...
Your still side stepping the question Jeff k !! Bronze cannons !!
You know I'm Spanish, you haven't toll me what you are !! French ? English? unknown ?
and No hidden agenda< I just want the truth !!
Ossy
 

As a moderator, I would just like to caution all involved in this thread about the rules again. There is no need for name calling, baiting, or otherwise turning this thread ugly again.

Thanks
Tom
 

Ossy... Odyssey was ready to go back to the wreck site when Spain illegally stopped their ships. Maybe they would have brought up some cannon or other artifacts that would have identified the ship. Cannon are not a good way to identify a wreck, because most ships carried cannon from many countries.

"Cannon are very useful in establishing the size, type, and approximate date of the ship, but not always the nationality, because cannon manufactured in many different countries might be found on a single ship. During the second half of the sixteenth century the majority of the cannon carried on Spanish ships were made in England and Holland, and during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries a large percentage were of foreign manufacture. A Spanish merchant ship sailing to Veracruz in 1616 had three English, one Italian, three Dutch, two Portuguese, five French, and three Spanish cannon as her armament. In 1623 the flotas and treasure galleons were unable to sail for the New World because of a grave shortage of cannon due to the fact that all the ships that had gone to the New World the previous year had not returned to Spain. To arm the ships, thirty were bought from Portugal, two hundred from Denmark and three hundred from England. Many of the ships of other European nations also carried cannon of foreign manufacture, most of which were obtained by capturing ships of other nations."

P.S. My mother's parents came from Palermo, Sicily, and my father's parents came from Kiev, Ukraine. That makes me an American.
 

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