Odyssey Marine Article...

Voldbjerg wrote:

1: I understand the need to preserve cultural heritage, but coins are species ie. identical.
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Thanks for this statement because Mr.Boonstone and others here in this forum need to be educated about "cultural heritage". The $500M coins that Odyssey took from the bottom of the sea not only means $money, it's more than that, represent a cultural heritage including the memories of all mariners drowned.
If for Boonstone this point doesn't means for him, I can understand,Treasure hunting for him = $$$$$$,... it doesn't matter if it is destroyed the cultural heritage,patrimony or the memories of people died in that event when the ship sank.

My understanding is those Odyssey's advocate should spent more time to be worry about the economy,wall street getting rich more and more,forclosure,bad credit, closing banks rather Odyssey win a trial.

I'm a professional treausre hunter.I'm very open mind when I go to explore and find a possible treasure,because whatever I find somebody could claim with rights and I have to share whatever I find. I wouldn't pretend to go to the court, spend money in lawyers just to have the chance to win a trial.Just think about it :thumbsup:

Amona
 

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I can't believe I'm responding to this crock, but here goes...

You seem to assume that if someone wants to make money, then there's no interest in cultural heritage. So with that logic, restaurant owners must hate food since they strive to make money. All business owners must hate people and be very selfish since they hope to make a profit. Gimme a break. Why can't we preserve cultural heritage and make money while doing it? If archies would get this, we wouldn't be in the mess they've provoked upon their respective gov'ts. So are they do archaeological work with no expectation for compensation? Hardly. Why should Odyssey be any different?

And stop trying to push emotional buttons with the "dead sailors" crap. Odyssey brought up cargo; they didn't dig up a cemetery. There were no bodies contained in a hull to be moved or disturbed. The sailors' remains and the ship are long gone.

NOTE: Jeff, feel free to erase all this distraction from the Odyssey news it was intended to be :wink:
 

Darren... Well said. Odyssey was always willing to share their discoveries with Spain, but unfortunately, there are some in Spain that can't see past their nose. As far as cultural heritage is concerned, if I were Hispanic I wouldn't be so proud of what my ancestors did in the New World.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3184668.stm
 

I can't believe I'm responding to this crock, but here goes...

You seem to assume that if someone wants to make money, then there's no interest in cultural heritage. So with that logic, restaurant owners must hate food since they strive to make money. All business owners must hate people and be very selfish since they hope to make a profit. Gimme a break. Why can't we preserve cultural heritage and make money while doing it? If archies would get this, we wouldn't be in the mess they've provoked upon their respective gov'ts. So are they do archaeological work with no expectation for compensation? Hardly. Why should Odyssey be any different?
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i see you kinda mentality enough to diving for some cannon balls. Don't compare "restaurant business" with archaeology. treasure hunting is into this category of excavate for the past,......past means "what the men did". that's heritage culture.THE WAY THAT ODYSSEY REMOVE THE $500M COINS IT IS NOT THE PROPER WAY ACCORDING WITH A MODERN MARINE ARCHEOLOGY PROCEDURE.May be you have your butts shaking due the new 1A-31???

Amona :thumbsup: :coffee2:
 

Amona, if you can't see the restaurant metaphor for the sake of comparison, then I guess we can end our little exchange now. I've seen your "discussions" on other forums as well as here. Your response is crafted to lure me into an endless, pointless diatribe that gives you a needed audience, but will get us nowhere. Thanks, but no thanks. I think everyone has had a full orientation of your views. Thanks for sharing your professional side of the debate with us. We'll move on back to our meager cannonballs and legal wrangling with Florida. Sigh...:P
 

One other point to bring up. Spain could not care less for cultural heritage. They just want the $$$$! When Spain was expanding the harbor at Cadiz, Robert Marx pointed out that there were four 16th century shipwrecks buried in the sediment and he offered to excavate them. Spain said no and continued to bury the wrecks under tons of rubble!
Another thing I can not understand: There are three Spanish warships currently being salvaged by treasure hunters in Ecuador. Why doesn't Spain claim these ships? Ecuador is a signee to the UNESCO Convention on UCH.
 

Darren in NC wrote

Your response is crafted to lure me into an endless, pointless diatribe that gives you a needed audience, but will get us nowhere.
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Dear Daren

Never ever you've been agreed with my point of view, no matter what is the topic or subject to comment. You and I have opposite thought regarding my opinion and post here, you now what? this is a public forum, while this forum be public I will keep posting my opinions here. The audience you talk about is here posting everyday, reading my post.

Again:keep worry about 1A-31 because,..maybe you and your partners in your "aquatic group" have to switch business there, why not switch for a Sea food restaurant in Clear Water,Florida? You could hang your MD in the wall like Hard Rock cafe hang pics of the Beatles.

regard

Amona
 

Jeff K said:
Darren... Well said. Odyssey was always willing to share their discoveries with Spain, but unfortunately, there are some in Spain that can't see past their nose. As far as cultural heritage is concerned, if I were Hispanic I wouldn't be so proud of what my ancestors did in the New World.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3184668.stm
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Jeff i can't believe you support Chavez ! this guy is a mad man :tongue11: :tongue11: Your lucky he does not have Neuks, his passion and
hatred of the US is beyond his hatred of the Spanish !
Are your ancestors native Indians ? other wise you may need to refresh your memory on your ancestors !
Please lets keep to the facts, instead of attacking each other's nationality, :pain10:
Back to ship wrecks, I have some great photo's of the Dutch ship the Dyufken 1606 replica which i was on, I will hopfully post soon.
Ossy
 

Amona said:
....THE WAY THAT ODYSSEY REMOVE THE $500M COINS IT IS NOT THE PROPER WAY ACCORDING WITH A MODERN MARINE ARCHEOLOGY PROCEDURE.
Amona :thumbsup: :coffee2:
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You know good and well this is not about Archaeology, this is about sovereignty and the rights to the cargo! Your point is way off base.

Spain is just mad because they whisked it away before they could get their grubby little hands on it. Odyssey has done everything possible to try and work with them.

Amona, your opinions have long been known here in the shipwreck forum since you started posting about Odyssey. You are very much against Odyssey and you like to stir the pot a little. Nothing wrong with that! You do seem to be for Shipwreck Salvage though, at least after reading through some of your old post under your profile.

So whats up? Why this hatred for Odyssey? Not everyone here holds stock in Odyssey. Me for example! I just believe in what they are doing.

You make comments about the site being a "gravesite" but yet you support the salvage of other wrecks that people died on as well. Kind of hippocritical in my opinion.

You make comments about Archaeology, but yet you seem to support private salvage. Just not Odyssey for some reason! Maybe if your comments were consistent across the board, you could make a better argument!

Amona said:
Again:keep worry about 1A-31 because,..maybe you and your partners in your "aquatic group" have to switch business there, why not switch for a Sea food restaurant in Clear Water,Florida? You could hang your MD in the wall like Hard Rock cafe hang pics of the Beatles.
Amona
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As for comments like this, I know you are just stirring up sh!t, looking for a fight, and it is not needed! It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is basically an insult.

Lets keep the discussion civilized. Your post are always welcome as this is a public forum.

Robert
 

You know good and well this is not about Archaeology, this is about sovereignty and the rights to the cargo! Your point is way off base
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It's part of it, don't separate both disipline, sovereignty and archeology goes together when you working in a salvage. That's stupidy

Spain is just mad because they whisked it away before they could get their grubby little hands on it. Odyssey has done everything possible to try and work with them
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Odyssey did it wrong since the beginning. PERIOD!! nothing personal against Odyssey or "hatred" it just opposite thought againts what they did. PERIOD!!
Mel Fisher and others comapany made other salvages before and I congra. them.

You make comments about the site being a "gravesite" but yet you support the salvage of other wrecks that people died on as well. Kind of hippocritical in my opinion.
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Of course, I do when salvor do it right with all respect and according with all laws. Of course I agree, I like shipwreck hunting as well cache hunting but i don't support when salvor only think to do it according with theirs "greed feeling". By the way, the comment about "hippocrital" it doesn't "stick" to me because I'm very honest and straight with my post here.

As for comments like this, I know you are just stirring up sh!t, looking for a fight, and it is not needed! It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is basically an insult.

Lets keep the discussion civilized. Your post are always welcome as this is a public forum.
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This topic started very civilized in the beginnig but people that support Odyssey "started fire" with comments about cultural and other subject out of blue.So if you want respect be the first one to support it, DOESN'T MATTER IS WHITE, BLACK,SPAIN OR ODYSSEY.

regard

Amona
 

Wolves disguised of lambs !!
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Read this if you want, if not,....

You know what? I compare Odyssey with Joe the "plumber" because in this forum there is two parties struggling for who will win the big prize of $500M, meanwhile the real Odyssey is suffering in Tampa how to pay for more than 12 months of trial, attorneys and others expense.It's sad but it is true.I know there is folks here that think I hate Odyssey, that is bull $hit, I hate actions that violating the identity of some country or some race just to get more rich some commercial salvor business.I don't know personally the Odyssey's owner, regardless, I don't care who can be and I know many people here in this forum hate Spain, that's doubtless, so don't criticize me.

Old coins is not only coins, it 's more that that definition,it is history,it's cultural heritage, it's a visual representation about the past, how the people lived before to our fathers, it's the proof of many people (south America) were exploited and killed to mint that old coin,... That is heritage culture,...the mirror of the past, not the hopefully of my financial future.

Whoever think or believe I hate somebody here in Treasurenet or any institution like Odyssey is fully wrong.I offer my friendship to anyone.If I have to help anybody in any personal need, I will. If I have to protest for something I think is fully unfair I will as well, it's my right as natural citizen of this country.Protest and hate are to terms or definition totally difference.

Soon in the future will be determined who will gain the trial in Tampa (I'm not updated), If Odyssey or Spain. If Odyssey gain this trial,the $500 M of coins will stay in US to 'get fat' more and more the stocks and get more stockholders.If Spain gain, the trip of those $500 M of coins will be finished in some Spanish harbor and set in the proper place, in a museum.

Apologize if somebody was insulted due my past comments,it wasn't intentionally,sometime p$$$ me off the kind of mentality of some folks here.

Amona

Note:
Mr. moderator, if you like to delete this thread, if you understand have to be deleted, go ahead. I just want to be clear.
regard
 

scubasalvor said:
One other point to bring up. Spain could not care less for cultural heritage. They just want the $$$$!
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Scubasalvor,

I don't think youre right about their profit orientation. Spain would never be able to profit from selling the coins and the obligation of restoring and displaying them would actually put quite a dent in their nations budget. I think the problem is that they don't like that companies are profitting and "disrespecting" what they view as their glorious past. Just think what would happen if someone salvage the cannons of Bonhomme Richard and sold them on ebay - that would cause similar feelings in the US. The problem is you have a profit vs pride situation.

My personal believe is that if it was just a coin depot which will add nothing in terms of historical knowledge. Archeology is mainly a science where finds are interpreted and related to a context. Here we just have a money pile - no wreck and therefore no context. If the collection of coins does not bring up surprises then I cant realy see them as sacred cultural heritage - its just coins. Give spain and former colonies a share of coins for displaying and sell the rest for profit if desired. Just my two cents.

/V
 

Gentlemen! As MODERATOR, I have been watching this post very closely. I would like to caution everyone that the direction this thread is heading does concern me. Primarily because the last time this subject got heated, I was forced to ban several long term members of this forum.
Every members opinions are valued in this discussion, regardless of the position they are taking concerning Odyssey Marine. I just don't want to see this conversation denigrate into a shouting match with everyone hurling insults back and forth.

Tom
 

Well said Boldbjerg :thumbsup: Would Spain sell the coin's on eBay if they win, NO they would not !
Question is? what would Spain do with so many coins, that are all basically all the same, sure gold is gold
and silver is silver but its not what the metal worth, it's the history attached to the coin's, that's what Odyssey would
push ! they already created their own sea salvage grading from their last recovery which does not exist in
the numaristic world of coin's.
So here's a twist for every body, Spain and Odyssey have already done the deal :smileinbox: Odyssey will take the
lion share, Spain a small token for it's museum, but here's the twist they will share the profit's ! they got the whole world
interested in the court battle, but i call this advertising your product ! I have the same coin's ( silver ) dated 1798 in extra fine
condition and only paid $50 Australian and it's not sea salvage.
So it may be a good time to buy odyssey shares !
Its sad ,but it what makes the world go round ,MONEY!!
Ossy
 

Good afternoon Ladies & gentlemen: I have avoided entering into this discussion, but I find myself asking a few questions which haven't been adequately addressed.

A) Just how many coins do "all of the Museums" in Spain actually need for Historical / Archaeological presentation? Any more than this is entering into a mercenary condition, GREED, since none of the money will ever be spent on furthering archaeological explorations for more artifacts.

B) As for being a monument to the deceased, if this is carried to it's logical conclusion, all of Spain, europe, and most of the world has remenants of deceased people and so should not be touched, correct? In actuality their sacredness is dictated by $$$$$$$$.

If so, then the idea not salvaging and leaving a sunken wreck as a monument to the lost sailors is a hipocritical fallacy. One well tended central monument, somewhere in the world, would be sufficient.

This ignores the benefit of putting that money back into circulation, which eventually will benefit many

I fail to see the logic of not salvaging any and all wrecks or land deposits. Humanity eventually benefits, a form of recycling ..

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Amona,

Your points are well taken and are all very valid and I certainly think you expressed your opinion well. But how can you say that Odyssey taking these coins is wrong ethically, and salvaging a Spanish vessel say in the Domincan Republic is OK. You really cant have it both ways.

If this vessel was 5, 50 or even 500 miles off the coast of the US, would it change your opinion on who should get the coins? Would it make a difference if the shipwreck and coins Odyssey found was say, English or Dutch and in Spanish waters?

I guess my point is, you seem to be playing both sides of the fence. Don't get me wrong, I think you have to stand up for what you believe in and I am not trying to suppress your opinions! But I also believe that you have to apply the same standards you impose on others to yourself as well.

I certainly think we can discuss this topic in an intelligent manner and not throw punches at each other.

Anyway, I have been informed that it seems the main moderator over at the other Treasure Forum likes to peak in here and look for any drama he can find to post over there. From what I understand, I have been heading up this whole topic and I am the root of all evil over here at Tnet. LOL >:D >:D >:D

Respectfully,

RGecy
 

RGecy

With all those issues about Odyssey, 1A-31 and others, I believe Salvor like you and others in Florida should pay attention about your future because Governments like Florida state are watching everything what happen with Odyssey's trial and they're taking decision about the treasure hunting's future, at least in Florida. No matter if Odyssey is right or not, behind Government are those guys called "Archaeologists". Those guy are not quite happy with us regarding of what we want or the way we want it.(exception when they need us then they call us). If you read an article in Spain, there is an order to arrest the Odyssey's two most important man.That's serious and sad. I understands about your point if those coins belong to Odyssey because there were found in International water-finder keeper, you're right!! but I don't trust too much because governments and archaeologists don't look it of the same angle.They have more evidence,influence and power to retrieve any treasure found in International water for any treasure hunter. International water is like detecting in the beach. If you find a gold ring, you own it but if somebody come to you claiming for that ring and evidence then is other story.

Like treasure hunter that I'm, I believe, before to remove or salvage some treasure that I find, I will coordinate before with all possible owners and governments,even in international waters, in order to avoid possibles trial in court.

if Odyssey had notified to Spain and England about those $500M coins before remove, I would support 100% to Odyseey with My comments.

Those $500M coin should be in a Museum in Spain, Peru or maybe in Smithsonia at Washington,DC, not trade them to acquire more money because behind those coins there is many stories to tell and representation of many heritage culture.It's my thought.

Amona
 

Amona... I guess you have no idea about Odyssey's business plan. They only sell mass produced artifacts, not historical artifacts of significance. As far as museums go, Odyssey has artifacts on display in three museums, the New Orleans Mint, an Alabama museum, and their own traveling exhibit due to open in Okla. City. Don't worry, if Odyssey wins their case there will be plenty of artifacts to keep Peru happy.

P.S. I forgot to mention the Discovery Channel series that will be seen by millions of people all over the world, including Spain.

http://blogs.discovery.com/ocean_odyssey/
 

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