Odyssey Marine Article...

[Happy Harry]

Sent my own words to the powers that be!!

HHHH

 

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

That's good new. Just more proof that the Mercedes had commercial cargo on board.

Jeff why would the Spanish crown pay out if it was a commercial ship you need to read the article carefully.
more proof that it was a Royal Frigate ! OMR should start packing the coins back up, for return to its Rightful owner SPAIN !!!!!!!!
Ossy

 

[Amona]

Jeff why would the Spanish crown pay out if it was a commercial ship you need to read the article carefully.
more proof that it was a Royal Frigate ! OMR should start packing the coins back up, for return to its Rightful owner SPAIN !!!!!!!!
Ossy

Ossy

What happen is jeff like others guys in this forum are "Odyseey's advocate",have stocks invested in Odyseey or just they identified themself with Odyseey because are Floridian and have the same business but what they don't know is most of them are in the "wrong" business, therefore they don't really care what that article in that Spanish newspaper say.

This business is very delicated when you going to work it because you have to deal with valuable item belonging to somebody else before you were born and it does matter what happen in the past or how that treasure was lost "still" the owner exist.

Sunshine state: Miami, Orlando, MGM,Disney,...waooo

Amona

 

[boonestone]

Ossy and Amona: I believe that concerning this thread I'm fairly neutral. If you strip this argument to its basic form, how can you possibly want or think Spain is entitled to anything? The fundamental point is Spain had no hand in finding it. Are you actually suggesting that after what Odyssey went through, in terms of money, research, and time, they just turn it over to your team? 21st century Spain has lost nada. 21st century Spain has invested into the recovery nada. 19th century Spain cannot be reimbursed for its loss. A cutting edge company found the "LOST" 19th century treasure, case closed. Everything said in addition to this basic premise is paint on the wall.

 

[Vox veritas]

Ossy and Amona: I believe that concerning this thread I'm fairly neutral. If you strip this argument to its basic form, how can you possibly want or think Spain is entitled to anything? The fundamental point is Spain had no hand in finding it. Are you actually suggesting that after what Odyssey went through, in terms of money, research, and time, they just turn it over to your team? 21st century Spain has lost nada. 21st century Spain has invested into the recovery nada. 19th century Spain cannot be reimbursed for its loss. A cutting edge company found the "LOST" 19th century treasure, case closed. Everything said in addition to this basic premise is paint on the wall.

Boone...., is to focus the whole matter from a legal point of view, not mercantile. The questions are: have propietor the load ? Who is? Where it was opposing really (because the mathematics of Odyssey is very strange and 100 nm = beyond 200 nm in international waters)?
And the most important thing: what shipwreck was really extracted?

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Boone you obviously believe in piracy :icon_pirate: you need to read some history on the Mercedes
Just because you can take some thing does not make it yours mate ! that's what pirates do !!!!
Odyssey knew the risk they where taking and gamble on it ! The game is up for Odyssey.
All they will get is NADA !!!!! not one Spanish coin, that's right Spanish coins !!!!!! with their coat of arms !!!!
Ossy

 

[Amona]

boonestone wrote

Ossy and Amona: I believe that concerning this thread I'm fairly neutral. If you strip this argument to its basic form, how can you possibly want or think Spain is entitled to anything? The fundamental point is Spain had no hand in finding it. Are you actually suggesting that after what Odyssey went through, in terms of money, research, and time, they just turn it over to your team? 21st century Spain has lost nada. 21st century Spain has invested into the recovery nada. 19th century Spain cannot be reimbursed for its loss. A cutting edge company found the "LOST" 19th century treasure, case closed. Everything said in addition to this basic premise is paint on the wall.

The point is not "who is able to find" but "who has the right to claim". Beside, Odyseey made it in the wrong way.Odyssey is in the wrong business. Odyssey only thing to get rich, no matter "HOW".When you do something like they did remove and bring from Europe $500M in spanish coins without deal with any country,that action let you know what they want, how they want it no matter where they find it.

What happen here is (without personal insult) here in this forum the most shipwreck finder are from Florida, of course, they support Odyssey, but thanks to Odyssey's action and other issues,those shipwreck finder from Florida are paying the consequence with the new 1A-31 rule.

In 1989, I lost from a tug boat of Crowley Maritime, a "Sony digital walkman" in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. I don't have money to buy a robot, a boat, pay divers. If Odyssey find my walkman that play tape, sure I will claim my right over that walkman.

Amona

 

[boonestone]

Vox: The location of the find is either in international waters or not. Unfortunately, attorneys armed with decisions made by politicians with their own questionable agendas, are going to argue before a judge who could have his own political leanings. Basically, its a large guano sandwich and everyone has to take a bite. My question to you Sir is: if the treasure is deemed to lay in international waters, is it then property of Odyssey? Ossy:Your argument has NADA merit since Spain pirated the coins to begin with. As to the outcome of the court case, gambling just happens to be one of my vices, so why don't we escrow an agreed on amount with the winner taking all. Amona: Again, Odyssey contends the treasure is in international waters. If they had turned it over to Spain it would have been, quite possibly, one of the worst business decisions in the history of our Country. As far as Odyssey getting rich, thats what American companies do, they try to succeed. Shareholders can be an angry bunch and more importantly, its Odysseys' obligation to make a profit, not to find treasure then give it away.

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox: The location of the find is either in international waters or not. Unfortunately, attorneys armed with decisions made by politicians with their own questionable agendas, are going to argue before a judge who could have his own political leanings. Basically, its a large guano sandwich and everyone has to take a bite. My question to you Sir is: if the treasure is deemed to lay in international waters, is it then property of Odyssey?

boone... , the article 149 of the UNCLOS says textually:

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf

About the AREA
Article 149
Archaeological and historical objects
All objects of an archaeological and historical nature found in the Area
shall be preserved or disposed of for the benefit of mankind ace to whole,
particular regard being paid to the preferential rights of the State or country
of origin, or the State of cultural origin, or the State of historical and
archaeological origin.

It is very strange that the Spanish culture minister few days of the announcement of the discovery without nobody, except for Odyssey knew the place, she will affirm flatly that the recovery happened in international waters. This removed many headaches and it still avoided responsibilities to determine on the court.
The place of the discovery went to 100 nm west of Gibraltar (officially) but all the media, without it is known why and how, said 180 nm. In any event be 100 or 180 we continue inside the area.
But the most absurd thing is that the Mercedes it's few miles of the Portuguese coast and all this is a simple and vulgar farce.

 

[Amona]

Amona: Again, Odyssey contends the treasure is in international waters. If they had turned it over to Spain it would have been, quite possibly, one of the worst business decisions in the history of our Country. As far as Odyssey getting rich, thats what American companies do, they try to succeed. Shareholders can be an angry bunch and more importantly, its Odysseys' obligation to make a profit, not to find treasure then give it away

1. International water,...Court will determine last decision.
2. Of course, worst business decision because they are in the wrong.It isn't the first time Odyssey is in court.
3. If you want to make profit in your business, do it right.
4. Of course, Odyssey doesn't give away treasure, they take it, you're right in that point.

Like I said before,when you're in treasure hunting you have to deal with valuable items owned for somebody before you were born and coordinate with proper countries before remove it doesn't matter is it in international water or not. If you don't start from that point, but greed spirit to fulfill your bank account, you're in the wrong business because only you will gain headache on court.

By the way, if you're a shipwreck finder, you should be more worry about the 1A-31 rather Odyssey's trial, I should

Amona

 

[Amona]

Vox veritas

Greeting

Vox, don't waist your time trying to convince those guys, they see this trial as another war between "Spanish vs.English", as Patriotic act. They don't respect all souls of all men died drowned these day when Mercedes went down to the botton sea.The $500M represent all those souls.

Amona

 

[boonestone]

Amona: That statment about the 500m representing the souls of the men might be in the top five all-time crocs of guano. You actually think thats why Spain wants the money,to perhaps placate the souls of the lost men? Put the pipe down. Spain is simply throwing bait in the water hoping the U. S. Courts bite. I'll bet my life not one penny would reach anyone connected to the Mercedes. They simply are trying to benefit from someone elses hard work. Obviously, I say this only if the treasure was found in international waters. One last thing, I wonder what Spain did for all the souls that were lost that day. I'm thinking nada.

 

[Salvor6]

Vox, here is the part I don't understand. If the Mrecedes is just off the coast of Portugual and Spain knows this, why did they not get the coins themselves?

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Boone we can fire broadside's at each other all day long ! You obviously don't care for any history
Show me the money !!! 8 reale's don't fit into slot machines ! Instead of wondering about things take the time
to research them ! you may learn a few more Spanish words. http://www.abc.es/ 20081013/cultura.

Scuba, good point I would like to know as well. This may be Spain's wake up call.
Ossy

 

[boonestone]

Ossy and Amona: I truly wish I was fluent in Spanish, it's a beautiful language. Unfortunately I've used the only two words that I know in todays previous posts. Your guys English is quite good, which brings me up to this next point. I feel that in our particular dicussion today, I'm certain that the points I am trying to make get lost in the translation. I believe when you reply to my post it's as though you are answering someone else. It's probably mostly my fault since I can't read Spanish. Anyway I've tried to make my point of view simple but, I do not think it quite worked . Good Luck to the both of you.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Boone, your entitled to your opinion like any body Else , I speak the Queens English and the Kings Spanish.
I have been to your beautiful country and to Pear Harbour where I gave my respects to your young men
who died defending your nation ! This is some of your American History. Just as the Mercedes is Spanish History.
there is more to it, than Odyssey selling coins on eBay.
Cheers mate ! Ossy

 

[Voldbjerg]

Hi All,

I have been reading this thread for a long time. I have the following thoughts on the:


1: I understand the need to preserve cultural heritage, but coins are species ie. identical. Why would you need all the coins for museum displays? If they are seen as national treasure, they present no monetary value, since they can never be sold, yet the money it cost to preserve them will take away ressources needed for saving other items, buildings etc. Maybe its better for the rest of Spains cultural heritage that they only receive a share of the loot.
2: Many companies are profitting from recovering and saving history. Just think of what it cost to restore a painting or a historical building, why is that you are so strongly believe that shipwreck salvors should get nada? They take a risk that neither the government or profit orientated contractor working on restoring historical buildings would ever take.
3: 100nM or 180nM issue. 100nM equals 185 kms - what are the chances that some journalist got that mixed up?
4: Spain is a pirates nest. Even today they try to steal gold on the high seas - just look how they fought us(Denmark) to get our gold from the 49 races in the olympic this summer

/V

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

4: Spain is a pirates nest. Even today they try to steal gold on the high seas - just look how they fought us(Denmark) to get our gold from the 49 races in the Olympic this summer

/V
[/quote] Voldbjerg sorry, what are you on about
Ossy

 

[Voldbjerg]

4: Spain is a pirates nest. Even today they try to steal gold on the high seas - just look how they fought us(Denmark) to get our gold from the 49 races in the Olympic this summer

/V

Voldbjerg sorry, what are you on about
Ossy
[/quote]
It was meant as a joke - the story is as follows:

Before the olympic finals at the 49(small fast sailboat) race, the danish team had a big lead to the competitors. All they had to come in as number seven out of 12(i think) to win gold.
A few minutes before the start, the danish boat breaks the mast. They could not fix it before start so they borrow the croatian teams boat.
They pass the start line several minutes after the rest of the boats.
Durring the hard weather many boats got in trouble but the danish worked its way up the ladder.
They securered a position good enough to win the gold medal.
Spain won silver.
Spain wanted gold so the complained and brought the case to the olympic court room and claimed that the danes should be disqualified because they where not using their own boat. Court ruled in favor of denmark.

The point is: if spain cannot win fair and square on the water - they take it to court. one might argue that is what happening in the odessey case

On topic: Ossy - do you think its within spains interest to bully every salvor finding a shipwreck coin or artifact? The way I see it - they have a mutural interest in the treasure and should work together. Fact is that spain would never put a fleet survey ships on the oceans in order to find its lost treasure - they should work with salvors to the benefit of both.

/V

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Voldbjerg, I do agree that the salvor's should work with Spain, if it's a Spanish ship, Problem is, all of them what to keep
it for themself's 100%.
Spain should get off it's back side and invest on it's own archeology and recovery ships to prevent any more looting of
it's ships. I would like to see a workable solution for all , so everybody can enjoy History.
Personally i would love to see the money used to rebuild some of these great ship's like the Atocha, etc
so we can all enjoy the past, some people only see the money side of things ,but it is worthless without the
History
Ossy