Odyssey Marine Article...

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good afternoon ossy el Tinker/ Bush Ranger: I am curious also

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[jeff k]

Ossy... You can arrest a shipwreck in any Admiralty Court of any nation. Of course, it's cheaper if you can do it in your own hometown like Tampa. Odyssey has until Nov. 17th to respond to Spain's claim for sovereign immunity. If the judge denies the claim then the case will proceed to the next step which is discovery. After that the judge will set a pretrial hearing date, and then a trial date. Hopefully, the case will be over by the end of the first quarter of 2009. After that, who knows, maybe an appeal by the side that loses. If Spain loses on the sovereign immunity, a settlement may be possible.

P.S. I'm laying odds the judge will deny sovereign immunity, because there was commercial cargo on the Mercedes.

 

[Vox veritas]

Jeff, is the same case that Juno and Galga? They also transported commercial load but the supreme court gave the reason to Spain. Your opinion will be appreciated.

 

[jeff k]

The Juno & Galga case is a red herring. They sank inside US territorial waters, and came under US law. The Mercedes sank in international waters, so US law does not apply here. The judge will decide this case under UNCLOS. Apples & Oranges!

Court Case Q&A...

http://shipwreck.net/bsfaq26sept08.html

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ola Vox,In the English reports after the battle, didn't the English report the Mercedes as royal frigate flying
the royal navy colour's.
Haven't royal galleons always carried merchant goods ? the treasure fleets ?
Hope you don,t get any lemons Jeff

 

[Vox veritas]

The Juno & Galga case is a red herring. They sank inside US territorial waters, and came under US law. The Mercedes sank in international waters, so US law does not apply here. The judge will decide this case under UNCLOS. Apples & Oranges!

Court Case Q&A...

http://shipwreck.net/bsfaq26sept08.html

Jeff, international waters is beyond the 200 miles, but this doesn't coincide with the declarations of Odyssey 100 and later 180 miles. They lack 20 to reach 200 of international waters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

Anyway, 180 are in the EEZ of Portugal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Portugal_Exclusive_Economic_Zone.png

Your opinion will be appreciated. Thanks

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Vox hope you are well I have a question for you ! Is Spain going to start to do something with their
under water history? Its about time they did something ! ya es ora.
Ossy

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox hope you are well I have a question for you ! Is Spain going to start to do something with their
under water history? Its about time they did something ! ya es ora.
Ossy

Ossy, there is a play where a part says: as the market gardener's dog. Neither they eat neither they allow to eat!! This is what happens in Spain.
But this doesn't mean that there are laws and international treaties as The Law of the Sea.

 

[Vox veritas]

Ola Vox,In the English reports after the battle, didn't the English report the Mercedes as royal frigate flying
the royal navy colour's.
Haven't royal galleons always carried merchant goods ? the treasure fleets ?
Hope you don,t get any lemons Jeff

In the XVIII century and with the arrival of the Borbones Spain had a Navy like we understand at the moment. Previously, for the trips to Indies (America) the galleons were freighted to privates. Undoubtedly the Mercedes was a ship of the Royal Spanish Navy and then was usual to transport goods, because these ships were also ships mail. In fact, the Mercedes transported also money of the administration of mail of Lima.

 

[jeff k]

Claudio... International water starts at the 12 mi. limit as far as shipwrecks are concerned. The EEZ was set up for natural resources, and the last time I looked a shipwreck is not a natural resource. You can spout all the nonsense you want, but the law is the law.

 

[Vox veritas]

Claudio... International water starts at the 12 mi. limit as far as shipwrecks are concerned. The EEZ was set up for natural resources, and the last time I looked a shipwreck is not a natural resource. You can spout all the nonsense you want, but the law is the law.

Jeff, you are an expert in this matter. Can you illuminate us getting an evident demonstration of your statement? Many thanks.

 

[jeff k]

Exclusive economic zones (EEZs)
Extend 200 nautical miles from the baseline. Within this area, the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. The EEZs were introduced to halt the increasingly heated clashes over fishing rights, although oil was also becoming important. The success of an offshore oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947 was soon repeated elsewhere in the world, and by 1970 it was technically feasible to operate in waters 4000 metres deep. Foreign nations have the freedom of navigation and overflight, subject to the regulation of the coastal states. Foreign states may also lay submarine pipes and cables.

 

[mariner]

Jeff,

There is a thing called the Contiguous Zone that exists between the Territorial Waters and the Exclusive Economic Zone, but only if the country has invoked its right to declare this Contiguous Zone. In the US, Bill Clinton declared the Contiguous Zone, which runs 12 nautical miles beyond the Territorial Waters. Rights in the Contiguous Zone are the same as in Territorial Waters, as far as things like shipwrecks are concerned. US jurisdiction over shipwrecks is therefore 24 miles for the USA, and as you say, the EEZ only covers natural features.

Do you know if Spain has a Contiguous Zone beyond its Territorial waters.

Sorry if this has already been covered. I just dip in and out of this thread from time to time, while the court goes through its process.

In any case, I think the wreck is beyond the 24 nm limit, isn't it?

I agree with you Jeff about the likely verdict and the reason for it.

Mariner

 

[mariner]

I decided I shouldn't be so lazy on a simple question like this, so I looked it up on the Internet.

Spain extended its Territorial Sea limit to 12 nm in January 1977, and added a Contiguous Zone of another 12 nm in November 1992, making the extent of its jurisdiction over things like shipwrecks 24 nautical miles. This is between 26 and 27 "land" miles.

Mariner

 

[jeff k]

Mariner... The Black Swan site is outside the Contiguous Zone according to the arrest docs.

 

[Vox veritas]

Mariner, what about Portugal?

 

[mariner]

Vox,

Portugal is 12 nm Territorial Sea and a Contiguous Zone of another 12 nm. There are agreements about the waters where their zones overlap with neighboring Spain, but I did not look at those in any detail.

Mariner

 

[Vox veritas]

Mariner... The Black Swan site is outside the Contiguous Zone according to the arrest docs.

Jeff, which authority or institution has verified the place of the arrest declared in May 2007?

 

[jeff k]

Spain was given the location, so they can verify if they haven't already done so.

 

[Vox veritas]

I will wonder better. There is or there is not a public institution forced to verify the place of the arrest and what the finder has found? If positive which institution verifies the discovery?