Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

[ECS]

... You can't believe everything just because it is written, and just because it is not written about does not mean it didn't happen..

The "not written" in most cases means it "didn't happened", and opens the door for the purveyors of the creative pseudo history that has plagued many of these threads, but the gullible do believe "just because it is written".

 

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[n2mini]

No different then you believe that Homer's dates are correct but dismiss those 4 Historians dates.. because it fits your narrative, which is to debunk anything Franklin says....

 

[ECS]

There is real documented history, n2mini my friend, and there is the fabricated fantasy pseudo history for profit which is very easy to disprove with actual established facts.
Ot appears that some are unable to differentiate between the two.

 

[n2mini]

kinda like those 4 historians that are 600 years apart on the Trojan War. Yep that right there is "real documented history" right down to a hand full of centuries give or take a few of course....

 

[ECS]

...The Trojan War was 650BC. Posted by Franklin

1750 BCE - 1300 BCE. Troy VI - probable Troy of Homer's Iliad. City at its zenith.
1334 BCE. Trojan War, according to Duris of Samos.
c. 1250 BCE. Trojan War, according to Herodotus.
1184 BCE. Trojan War, according to Eratosthenes...

You do understand that the three ancient historians you listed DID NOT post their works with the BCE dates.

 

[ECS]

... Please lets let this dead dog lie... You Win..

...and here I thought that you wanted to "let this dead dog lie".
There is a process and method that historians utilize in dating events in the BCE, it is obvious from your boisterous tropes concerning BCE dating, especially that the 650BCE date presented by Wilson & Blackett occurred 100years AFTER the account by Homer and WHY is is totally impossible for Welsh, Romans, and Israelites to have taken part in that War, that you do not have an accurate knowledge of history or an understanding of the professional dating process of events BCE.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

It has not even been established that there was a war. It may just be a good story; oft repeated.

If you are going to make-up a war you are free to make-up when it occurred.

I doubt many historians or archeologists take the Demi-god and mostly invulnerable Achilles character at face value. Good story, though.

 

[ECS]

... everyone is talking about the Trojan War dates and trying to tell Franklin his date is way off ...

Once again Franklin's research originates directly from those British charlatan quasi historians, Alan Wilson & Baram Blackett (real name-Andrew Terry) book, "THE TROJAN WAR OF 650 BC :Fractured History", which should be subtitled "Fabricated History".
This tome is full of their speculative assertions that are not qualified by any real documented supporting references, with several pages devoted totally to rail against the established academic community of historians and archaeologists.
While navigating through unproven claims of the Welsh being a Lost Tribe of Israel written blaring factual mistakes and questionable information, it appears that no one proof read the amateur syntax and grammar found throughout.
In no way is this considered as legitimate factual researched history, just pulp fantasy history from a former engineering plant foreman and a convicted dealer of stolen artwork, written specially for the gullible secret history conspiracy minded.
'NUFF SAID

 

[n2mini]

Well ECS, which is it. You claim Homer to have the correct date of the Trojan War. Some how no one else seems to know when it was apparently. Yet when Charlie P posts that it has yet to be established that there ever was a War that it might have all been a "Hoax" so dates would have been a "Hoax" as well. You "LIKED" the post!!! Why, It goes against your almighty HOMER... SO which is it. Is Homer correct or was the war a Hoax?? CAN"T BE BOTH...

 

[n2mini]

Here is some info I found on BCE dates. It's long but does what I have always thought and even asked on here a few weeks ago in that why do they count backwards and apparently at their times they weren't really counting backwards. It appears that dates of alot of historical times is/was added in much later to give it a date in time. Which in many instances is WAY OFF as we can all see... You can't count down to something you don't know is coming. The birth of Jesus Christ.
Disclaimer--- I'm NOT saying this is fully 100% correct as I have no idea, but it somewhat explains it...


.
the whole idea of counting years forward from a fixed date didn't arise until 312 B.C., when the founder of the Seleucid dynasty (one of the successors of Alexander the Great) started numbering years from his return from exile to assume the throne in Babylon. This system continued in use in the Middle East until the 10th century A.D. The Romans counted forwards from the legendary founding of Rome in 754 B.C., but didn't actually start using that convention until much later. Similarly, the Mayan Long Count (the one that wrapped around this year) has a base date of 3114 B.C., but was first used (as far as we know) in the first century B.C.

So how did people date things? Typically by the local king's reign: the tenth year of King So-and-so. (The Japanese "official era" descends from this system, and is still in ordinary use in Japan today; in the U.K., a statute passed in 2014 was officially enacted "in the 63rd regnal year of Queen Elizabeth the Second".) This system was awkward for many reasons, and made it hard to match up dates from one place to another. After the Romans got rid of their kings, they had to use dates like "when X and Y were consuls for the second time", which was not necessarily the year after when they were consuls for the first time. In China, a 60-year cycle was used, which was good enough for tracking birth dates when people typically didn't live through a whole cycle.

The A.D. system itself was invented in 300 A.D. or so by a monk named Dionysius Exiguus (Dennis the Small), and it's slightly erroneous. The Bible says that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod of Judaea, but Roman records make it clear that he died in 758 by the Roman calendar, or 4 B.C. So the A.D. calendar is off by 4 years and maybe more, not that it matters. Non-Christians now use the system too, with the initials C.E. for Common Era, and B.C.E. for Before the Common Era.

Finally, some calendars do use reference points "before history". The Jewish calendar is numbered starting at the official creation of the world in 5773 B.C., and the Byzantine Empire used 5700 B.C. as the reference point. Astronomers count days since January 1, 4173 B.C. by the Julian calendar. All of these start dates are comfortably before most datable historical events.

 

[ECS]

Well ECS, which is it. You claim Homer to have the correct date of the Trojan War...

What I stated that you seem unable to comprehend, is that Homer was the first to write about the Trojan War and that the 650BCE date Wilson & Blackett have claimed for the Trojan War is 100 YEARS AFTER Homer's "ILLIAD", AKA "post facto".
Savvy?
So was Homer clairvoyant and able to see into the future, or did the explant foreman and his excon buddy just fabricate a date to present there flawed history promoting the Welsh as a Lost Tribe of Israel?
So which is it,n2mini my friend?
The date agreed upon by professional academic historians or the date created by two charlatan conmen who create their own version of history to sell books to the gullible?
CAN'T BE BOTH...

 

[n2mini]

I have admitted I don't know anything about the Trojan War other then what I saw in the Movie. REMEMBER. I don't care about it's history or if it happened or not. We all know the dates on pretty much everything before AD started and I'm sure there is plenty in there as well, that the dates are WAY off depending on who all is writing what. You virtually can't read one person "works" and compare it to anothers as they will not line up on much if anything.. Your the one who believes Homer and as I said he might be right. Again, I don't know or care... but if there was a Trojan War, and his dates are correct on the Trojan War, then why did you like a post where someone is questioning the fact that the war EVER HAPPENED!!!

My other thought is with most all dates back then being off how do we know that Homer or Wilson & Blackett have their dates right Your taking 2 different "works" and compareing their dates and as we have seen on here in the last month that none of them line up, the dates weren't kept very well and lots of dates are added in years later which is why some are WAY OFF....

Here is Homer's wikipedia page. Doesn't show him in the best of light as he apparently was BLIND.. and some are still debating on his "works"/Poems...Iliad/Odyssey

Homer (/ˈhoʊmər/; Ancient Greek: Ὅμηρος [hómɛːros], Hómēros) was the presumed author of the Iliad and the Odyssey, two epic poems that are the foundational works of ancient Greek literature. The Iliad is set during the Trojan War, the ten-year siege of the city of Troy by a coalition of Greek kingdoms. It focuses on a quarrel between King Agamemnon and the warrior Achilles lasting a few weeks during the last year of the war. The Odyssey focuses on the ten-year journey home of Odysseus, king of Ithaca, after the fall of Troy. Many accounts of Homer's life circulated in classical antiquity, the most widespread being that he was a blind bard from Ionia, a region of central coastal Anatolia in present-day Turkey. Modern scholars consider these accounts legendary.[2][3][4]

The Homeric Question – concerning by whom, when, where and under what circumstances the Iliad and Odyssey were composed – continues to be debated. Broadly speaking, modern scholarly opinion falls into two groups. One holds that most of the Iliad and (according to some) the Odyssey are the works of a single poet of genius. The other considers the Homeric poems to be the result of a process of working and reworking by many contributors, and that "Homer" is best seen as a label for an entire tradition.[4] It is generally accepted that the poems were composed at some point around the late eighth or early seventh century BC.[5]

The poems are in Homeric Greek, also known as Epic Greek, a literary language which shows a mixture of features of the Ionic and Aeolic dialects from different centuries; the predominant influence is Eastern Ionic.[6][7] Most researchers believe that the poems were originally transmitted orally.[8] From antiquity until the present day, the influence of Homeric epic on Western civilization has been great, inspiring many of its most famous works of literature, music, art and film.[9] The Homeric epics were the greatest influence on ancient Greek culture and education; to Plato, Homer was simply the one who "has taught Greece" – ten Hellada pepaideuken.[10][11]

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

And Oak Island is connected to all of this in what way?

 

[ECS]

...
My other thought is with most all dates back then being off how do we know that Homer or Wilson & Blackett have their dates right? Your taking 2 different "works" and compareing their dates and as we have seen on here in the last month that none of them line up, the dates weren't kept very well and lots of dates are added in years later which is why some are WAY OFF....

Once again, the date of Homer's work was derived by the accepted methods mentioned in your POST#3650 and are accepted by the professional academic community.
Nothing by those pseudo history Wilson & Blackett hacks, including the 650BCE date, is accepted as a serious work.
As you mentioned that you "don't know anything about the Trojan War", one glaring historical fact that counters those wannabe historians is that there were NO Welsh, Romans, or Israelites in that confrontation, only Greeks and Trojans.

 

[ECS]

And Oak Island is connected to all of this in what way?

Franklin entered the Trojan War into this discussion, possibly because it is another bit of fake history concerning the Welsh from Wilson & Blackett.

"There were 70,000 or more Welsh came to North America in AD 574...Their kingdom spread from Nova Scotia to Florida and Texas and out west to Arizona and Montana"- Franklin November 18, 2020

Another bit of manufactured history taken from the self published books of the explant foreman & and his excon partner of creative fake history.

 

[n2mini]

it's not, that is what I said a page or so back in my reasoning that I DON"T CARE ABOUT THE TROJAN WAR.. I do think it is very funny now that I called ECS out on his ALL KNOWING HOMER maybe not be all knowing apparently and if there really was a war and why he liked that post he now wants to move on. GOOD, LET's DO THAT.... Lers get back to the swamp, stone road, which of the family members are dating the blonde etc...

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

And Oak Island is connected to all of this in what way?

franklin’s space/time warp tunnel?

 

[ECS]

.... Lers get back to the swamp, stone road, which of the family members are dating the blonde etc...

...and your favourite topic, the hole...

 

[ECS]

... I do think it is very funny now that I called ECS out ...

Now that is a GOOD ONE! You're no daisy at all!
Why are ignoring the Welsh, Romans, and Israelites that were claimed to be in that by your ALL KNOWING Wilson & Blackett?
'NUFF SAID!

 

[n2mini]

NO NO NO. I never said Wilson & Blackett knew/knows anything. Just that their dates might be correct, same as I said Homers might be correct or the any other half dozen dates that have been thrown out there... At this point I'm skeptical of any dates out there looking at how they dated stuff.. As you remember I have always said I got my knowledge from the Troy movie and don't have a dog in this date fight. My dog is the Referee trying to keep you honest and you apparently didn't really know much about Homer or were hoping no one would look into him and just take your word for it that he is ALL KNOWING.. Some are still debating his writting's as to whether he wrote them all and or had help in doing so maybe even took credit from other "works" Well of course he had help the man is BLIND... Even if he was at the Trojan War wearing his Historian/Journalist vest someone had to tell him what is going on.. For the most part everything the man ever wrote someone had to tell him about. Which brings in the other persons narrative, memory, alliance etc...