Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

[n2mini]

That is contingent on the veritas of the source of what one has read.
A formal documented paper that has gone through peer review and having outside collaborating evidence carries much more weight than the self published pulp pseudo history with no review proof of accuracy, or alleged journals that were not original, but copies of copies that were disposed after being translated by the finder is a good example of "something in writing doesn't make it fact".
As for "because it has never been read some where that any of that happen" is not proof in any way "it didn't" but in all probability never happened, allowing these purveyors of fringe fabricated history free range in creating their fantasies for profit.

Dang, you went back 6 months to quote a small portion of my post at the time. and I stand by my post. If you were going to do something secretive you would not be letting everyone in on it right. You may or may not have someone making a journal of it all at the time. Maybe years later but you know how info get miss-remembered and all... Yet would be coming from what is thought as now as The Source...( dates of the 1000 ship batter from a few pages back that varied up to 600 years from people who wrote about it )
I keep going back to Sinclairs Diploma that SOMEONE claimed was all knowing, was written by his grandson yet it didn't even know when or how the man died!!! Just saying.... You can't believe everything just because it is written, and just because it is not written about does not mean it didn't happen..

 

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[ECS]

The Sinclair Diploma states "deit erile of Orchadie, and for the defence of the country was slain there cruelle by his enemies"
If you are having a problem with the middle English, its states he was killed by his enemies while defending Orkney.
It appears that his grandson knew how and where he died.
You continue to ignore The Diploma of Thomas, Bishop of Orkney and Zetland, who knew Earl Henry Sinclair , and collaborates the information in The Sinclair Diploma.
As for your quote, n2mini, the Diplomas mention what happened, what they don't mention is an extended absence of Henry Sinclair from his country or any reference to his keeping company with Templars, and because the "in writing" claims of Muir, Halpern and the self published cottage industry of fabricated fringe fake history doesn't make it "fact".
Both Diplomas are solid evidence that Henry Sinclair NEVER made a voyage to Oak Island.
Thanks for supporting my point.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Maybe it was a quick trip using the space/time warp tunnel some have stated exists on hoax island....

 

[n2mini]

what I read and posted on his Diploma differs from what your claiming, but at the end of the day I didn't care then and don't care now about Sinclair. Just thought then as I do now that everything we read isn't 100% the truth or a fact, same as if you don't read about something doesn't mean it didn't happen.. case in point is the war with the 1000 ships etc. Trojan war or what ever it is or was called, we all discussed a few pages back. Some believe that never happened at all, while others differ on it's time line by 600 years.. Wholly cow, so if they are that far off on that 1 thing what does that do to all their other dates of "stories of history" it creates the snowball effect on their timeline. everything is or could be off by 600 years so how are we to believe any of that or anything they ever wrote!!!

 

[ECS]

What "some believe" concerning historical events, is NOT the same hard researched documented events by professional historians.
The "could be off by 600 years" is from the fabricated Welsh, Romans, and Israelites fringe history of Wilson & Blackett that gets posted as fact by a certain member.
As you are so hung up on dates, there is another Diploma of Orkney that list the accession of the Earldom of Orkney from 875 1445, written in Latin , it gives the "anno" of when Earl Henry Sinclair died, and is a good lesson on how dates were presented in writing during the Middle Ages.

*NOTE* The first mention of this fabricated Sinclair voyage to Nova Scotia as in 1875 when Richard Henry Major substituted the Prince Zichmni in his translation of hoax ZENO MANUSCRIPT to that of "Prince Sinclair".

 

[n2mini]

Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
The Trojan War was 650BC. Posted by Franklin

1750 BCE - 1300 BCE. Troy VI - probable Troy of Homer's Iliad. City at its zenith.
1334 BCE. Trojan War, according to Duris of Samos.
c. 1250 BCE. Trojan War, according to Herodotus.
1184 BCE. Trojan War, according to Eratosthenes. Not sure who originally posted this but Charlie P used it in his post back to Franklin below

So your 650 BCE is not substantiated by earlier accounts or archeologists.



This is where I'm getting the 600 year difference. I don't know who any of those folks are but assume they are supposedly correct in their writtings based on Charlie P's post to Franklin...

 

[ECS]

Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
The Trojan War was 650BC. Posted by Franklin

1750 BCE - 1300 BCE. Troy VI - probable Troy of Homer's Iliad. City at its zenith.
1334 BCE. Trojan War, according to Duris of Samos.
c. 1250 BCE. Trojan War, according to Herodotus.
1184 BCE. Trojan War, according to Eratosthenes. Not sure who originally posted this but Charlie P used it in his post back to Franklin below

So your 650 BCE is not substantiated by earlier accounts or archeologists.



This is where I'm getting the 600 year difference. I don't know who any of those folks are but assume they are supposedly correct in their writtings based on Charlie P's post to Franklin...

...and what does your strawman hayride to the red herring fish fry have to so with the three contemporary Diplomas that clearly state that Henry Sinclair never left his homeland?
It is noticed that you sidestepped the anachronistic reference made by Franklin of Welsh, Romans, and Israelites taking part in the Trojan War.

 

[n2mini]

I'm just trying to show that not everything that is written is 100% the truth either way. Franklins guys might not be 100% true but all of your guys are not either. As you see with the Sinclair Diploma it depends on where or what version you read as to it knowing how and when the man died. that is what I'm saying.. Seems no one knows when the Trojan War was and even if it did happen depending on what year it really took place everyone dates or atleast all but 1 if off by a bunch so then everything else they wrote about is off too date wise. So if these fine folks are that far off on their dates how do we know how accurate they are on anything else.. If they are baseing things on well 20 years after the war this happened but yet they are off by 300 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or more maybe.... 4-6 Generations of people have past in the time frame they are off by..

 

[ECS]

I'm just trying to show that not everything that is written is 100% the truth either way.
Franklins guys might not be 100% true but all of your guys are not either. As you see with the Sinclair Diploma it depends on where or what version you read as to it knowing how and when the man died. that is what I'm saying...

Are you claiming there more than one version of the Sinclair Diploma with dates for Henry Sinclair's death?
It has been documented as to how and where he died, and exact dating during the Middle Ages was another matter if not made by the Church or Royal agencies.
Whatever, these Diplomas collaborate the others content and prove that Sinclair never made a voyage across the Atlantic.
Please list these other Sinclair Diplomas to which you reference that state otherwise.

 

[Robot]

I Hope The Lagina Brothers...Will Not "Wine" About This!

Season 8...Episode 24.

I believe that the Lagina Brothers are "Stumbling" down the road to the wrong conclusion.

The "Lead Seal" they found is not a "Bale Seal" but a "Wine Seal"!

If they did not know...18th Century Cabernet Sauvignon Wine... then maybe they should have asked...Dave Blankenship?












Wine Bottle Seals



Lewis Burwell (d.1710) Wine Bottle Seal
Excavated at Fairfield Plantation, Gloucester County, Virginia
English
1710
Glass
Loan courtesy of the Fairfield Foundation

In the eighteenth century, wine was most often transported in casks or glass bottles. Wine bottle fragments have been discovered archeologically across the South. At Jamestown alone hundreds of bottle seals have been found. Personalized glass wine bottles not only ensured that the owner received the wine meant for him, but were also a way to conspicuously consume that wine.
Nathaniel and Lewis Burwell of Fairfield Plantation in Gloucester County, Virginia, both had personalized wine bottles. As did William Dry, the wealthy collector of customs in Brunswick, North Carolina. Customized wine bottles were refilled until broken, as these sherds attest.


I can attest:

These 18th Century Navy Freemasons...Had good taste!

 

[ECS]

The Trojan War was 650BC. Posted by Franklin

1750 BCE - 1300 BCE. Troy VI - probable Troy of Homer's Iliad. City at its zenith.
1334 BCE. Trojan War, according to Duris of Samos.
c. 1250 BCE. Trojan War, according to Herodotus.
1184 BCE. Trojan War, according to Eratosthenes...
So your 650 BCE is not substantiated by earlier accounts or archeologists.
This is where I'm getting the 600 year difference...

The Greek alphabet was introduced in the early 8th BCE, Homer is credited as writing the "ILIAD" around 750BCE combining Ionic Greek with Aeolic Greek.
750BCE is one hundred years BEFORE the 650BCE derived from a pseudo history book by Wilson & Blackett.
Most archaeologists and historians agree that the Fall of Troy of Homer's "Iliad" to be between the dates given by ancient Greek historians Eratosthenes's 1184BCE and Herodotus's 1250 BCE, which only a 56 years difference, not 600.

 

[n2mini]

Not that it matters, BUT I'm not referencing Homer's Iliad in the 600 years off. I showing that within that quote 4 different I guess "experts" "historians" or whoever the flip they are, they are claiming the Trojan War happened at a 600 years spread of time. Homer has nothing to do with that... and for the record have no idea nor desire to know who the flip he is either. That is the part you don't understand. I don't care about Sinclair, Homer, Trojan War, and that is why I stayed out of that discussion until someone posted those dates and I saw a 600 year difference in it.. but I think it is real dang funny that you bash Franklin on his time line based are YOUR EXPERTs and yet I have pointed out that no one seems to know when it happened or if it happened... They are showing a 600 year difference so who is to say where it falls within there or that any of them are correct and it was not another 100 years or more before or after their timeline... Seems records weren't kept very well back then...So at this point who knows when anything happened down to the year or decade even century....
Quickie search on Google.
"From the 1500s onward, till around the year 1800, life expectancy throughout Europe hovered between 30 and 40 years of age."
So you can see how many Generations pass on in the time frame of being off by just 100 years let alone 600... Heck even in your 56 time difference on the Homer thing 1-2 Gens have past...

 

[ECS]

Not that it matters, BUT I'm not referencing Homer's Iliad in the 600 years off...

The part than you don't understand, n2mini my friend, that 650BCE for the Trojan War that comes from Franklin's Wilson & Blackett's books "research" is that it is 100 years AFTER Homer's "Iliad" which was the first and ONLY account of a war between Mycenaean Greece and Troy, the dates given by the BCE historians you listed were made centuries after Homer's work, AND were not dated as BC.

*NOTE*
Ancient Greece did not have a universal dating system, which accounts for the different dates given by the ancient ancient Greek historians that were listed by my friend n2mini.
Each Greek City-State and region had is own method of dating events and its own calendar.
There were over 16 regional calendars used in ancient Greece,

 

[n2mini]

I don't care. Homer is ALL KNOWING... I'm happy for him.. and we'll all assume his dates are the gospel some how when everybody elses is way off...

 

[ECS]

If you don't care, n2mini my friend, what was the purpose of all your huffin' and puffin' about dates that began with a discussion concerning the alleged Templar treasure voyage to Nova Scotia, not the date of Henry Sinclair's death ?
The three contemporary Medieval Diplomas never mention this voyage, Orkney historian Brian Smith stated it never happened, Vanessa Smith ,Archaeologist/Professor at St Mary's College, Nova Scotia, said it is nothing more than a good story, as well as the Nova Scotia Archaeology Society stating that the Sinclair Templar voyage never happened.
In summation, Henry Sinclair's exact date of death is not germane in this discussion.

 

[n2mini]

As I have said many times I just think it is ironic that not just you but pretty much everyone believes what they want to believe and find "works" that coincide with it and the others find "works" that go against it. It's just a matter of who do you believe is correct in their history writings. I also thought it was funny when someone mentioned the great Sinclair Diploma didn't mention him ever coming to Nova Scotia area and my trusty quickie google search turned up an article on his Diploma that said that it didn't mention when or how he died and was written by his grandson. My thinking is at that point well now just how accurate is this Diploma if it doesn't know when the man died. Yes I know there are other "works" that claim to answer those questions. Then everyone is talking about the Trojan War dates and trying to tell Franklin his date is way off and someone posts those 4 or so dates by what is supposedly reputable historians and between them they are off by 600 years.. So heck Franklin might be correct, seems no one knows when the war was. ( except for the almighty HOMER apparently ) I don't care about either of those topics other then liked being able to point out and they are NOT all knowing apparently..

True it doesn't matter when Sinclair died, but if we are using his Diploma to prove he didn't come to Nova Scotia yet it doesn't know when or how the man died will then everything it does say or doesn't, comes in to play on it's accuracy..

 

[ECS]

You fail to comprehend the two Diplomas that collaborate the Sinclair, and then are the professional historians supporting the non voyage.
You also totally fail to understand that the account of the Trojan War by Homer was written 100 years before the 650BCE date that Franklin gleaned from a Wilson & Blackett book.
Please share with us how Homer could write about as event that 100 years in his future?

 

[gazzahk]

Please share with us how Homer could write about as event that 100 years in his future?

Well my friend here are two ways that spring to mind...



or my favorite way to travel in time...

 

[n2mini]

You fail to comprehend the two Diplomas that collaborate the Sinclair, and then are the professional historians supporting the non voyage.
You also totally fail to understand that the account of the Trojan War by Homer was written 100 years before the 650BCE date that Franklin gleaned from a Wilson & Blackett book.
Please share with us how Homer could write about as event that 100 years in his future?

I never said Homer was not correct. As you recall I said he is ALL KNOWING... What I was getting at is--- with all the dates by other historians being so far off how do we know for a fact when Homer actually wrote he works? Maybe his dates are way off as well. Who knows... Also as I said we all believe what/who we want to believe in. You apparently whole heartily believe in Homer. That's fine, I DON"T CARE ABOUT THE TROJAN WAR. Has nothing in my eyes to do with Oak Island Treasure Hunt... Please lets let this dead dog lie... You Win..

 

[DaveVanP]

Well my friend here are two ways that spring to mind...

View attachment 1922168

or my favorite way to travel in time...

View attachment 1922169

You forgot one...