Jeff how is this for proof. What I saw with my, own two eyes, and the photos I have of it. One monk, three Bedouins, almost a dozen dark age warriors. Torches, swords, spears, magnesium. Fire, and smoke. These were not flim flam costumes make no mistake, professional work. They buried incense and I have pictures. Stories of them in Warrington go back fifty years. What I saw matches a computer rendering, of the same thing, someone saw the year before. Now Tugrad explains in plain language what is happening, making sense of all, the years of sightings and whispers here. Not evidence? Please bear with me. A former member and "the Scam he started," now by chance was that claim of scam a "legit conclusion" supported by "proof of how those conclusions have been reached?" With hope, we are all here held to the same standard. I am interested in that proof as I am interested in the proof, advanced the first time around. Was the proof deleted. Was it in the old discussion. I have not, raised the issue, you have. Tugrad if you were involved and still are by all means give us some proof of what it is you have concluded.