Jesse James Treasures: Do They Likely Still Exist?

[Kace]

NA: I'd Love To See An Exit Wound Photo Too!

Please post a picture or link to that!

Glad To Have You...Keep The Info Coming!

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

JJ was not shot with a black powder or cap and ball revolver.
It was a .45 army colt
At the distance he was shot that bullet is coming out.Which it did above his left eye.

I certainly agree that handguns are much more powerful now but even a .45 muzzle loading pistol ball is coming out at that distance unless it was loaded with a lot less then 70 grains of black powder.

I ALSO read that somewhere; just don't "see" it in the "death pic".

 

[Kace]

Jesse James had many holsters on the right side, and was known to have a left side shoulder holster.
Historical Holsters | Old West Leather, Buckles, Cowboy Holsters, Custom Western Belts
Scroll down to the Jesse James section showing all his holsters and what pistols were in them.

Guess Who's Getting A New Holllsstteerrr...

THANKS FOR THE LINK. ECS!!

 

[Kace]

I ALSO read that somewhere; just don't "see" it in the "death pic".

I've read that too Reb...I just could never find any back up documentation or photo on it. I Really Hope NA posts a link so we can get it on here.

A couple other things I can't find a Second source on is that the man in the Death Photo is Zerelda James Samuels Mixed Race Son. Which Would Make Him JWJ Half Brother. I just can't find but ONE Claim of that.

In the same Personal Blog it claimed that ZEE JAMES was a Thrown in A Casket UPSIDE DOWN! I discounted both due to we know Zee was alive after JWJ supposed death in 1882. AND I Can't Find A Second Source.

 

[Kace]

Just going to jump in here to add to some recent posts. A black powder hand gun is nothing like modern firearms. Very low velocity. Bullet might not exit. Cole younger was shot something like 9 times at Northfield,MN. and I think he still had most of them in him. Pretty sure JJ was right handed. A couple of different stories where he shot against people in contest. A lit candle flame was the target. The idea was to put out the flame and not hit the candle. If his opponent shot out the flame first, JJ shot right handed. If they missed, JJ shot left handed. Good story, don't know if true. Didn't they also prove the photo of Billy the Kid was reversed and he was really right handed?

Hey UMM..I believe franklin said the photo of Billy the Kid WAS PROVEN to be Reversed and Sold for over 1million $$.

I've found many sources stating the Gun Bob Ford Used to Kill JJ was a Revolver....Not Black Powder. I completely agree with you on the power of BP vs Cartridge velocity in FPS.

THANKS For Jumping In Here And PLEASE keep Your Information and Stories Coming!! Seriously!

Kace

 

[Kace]

Guess Who's Getting A New Holllsstteerrr...

THANKS FOR THE LINK. ECS!!

***REB AND FRANKLIN...CHECK OUT THE LINK ECS POSTED....KGC SYMBOLS ON THE HOLSTERS-GUNS-BUCKLES. THAT IS AN AWESOME COMPANY and REASONABLE TOO!!!!

**Anyone Else Who Is Interested In WESTERN OUTLAWS--KGC and CIVIL WAR Original Holsters, Scabbards and Guns. This company documents EVERYTHING and Reproduces It Exactly or Custom Made For You.

There is/was a shop in Sante Fe that had these kind of things (I don't remember the name and can't find their card). and I've kicked myself for not having something done for myself, but I was with family and friends down there and you know how that goes when there are a lot of people...everyone wants to do something different....Thanks to ECS, I have a link to something similar! Happy!!

 

[ECS]

Guess Who's Getting A New Holllsstteerrr...

THANKS FOR THE LINK. ECS!!

Did you notice the holsters with the KGC markings?

 

[Kace]

I ALSO read that somewhere; just don't "see" it in the "death pic".

"Just Don't SEE THE EXIT WOUND"....In The HEAD/FACE Really? That would be a first with the alleged Caliber(s) of gun used. lol!! Whoever said that you just can't see the facial exit wound in the Death Photo...Must be trying to conceal Something...

IF there were not so many stories about JWJ getting shot in the Back Of The Head...Looking At The Death Photo, One would think it was a Body Shot Kill that is covered by Clothing....Then, You Just Can't See It..

 

[Kace]

The Same Thing Posted Twice...Operator Error!

 

[NewAge]

NA: I'd Love To See An Exit Wound Photo Too!

Please post a picture or link to that!

Glad To Have You...Keep The Info Coming!

Just do a google search for Jesse James death photo.....you can clearly see the exit wound.
If forum rules allow the posting of a death photo I will attach it.

I have read countless books about gunfighters,outlaws and the Wild West thru the years and am not citing anything from a certain web source.
I am also sure a quick google search of Jesse James/Robert Ford will supply lots of interesting reading material.

A photo of JJ and Ford a couple years before the murder was discovered a couple years ago.The owner wanted to sell it and it was in the process of being confirmed last I knew.I will have to check and see if that photo did end up being confirmed and what it brought at auction.

There is an affidavit signed by Robert Ford right after he shot JJ that he used a .45 SAA Colt......BUT
There is a .44 S and W that is engraved as the gun that killed JJ and Ford even posed for photos with that gun also but most historians discredit this gun as the weapon that killed JJ.

Ford would pose with any gun if you were paying him enough money ........Ford and his brother Charlie reenacted the murder hundreds of times on stage for money.

Ford either killed JJ simply for the 10k reward money or because JJ found out Ford had killed JJ's cousin Wood Hite and was afraid he would seek revenge.
My personal guess is it was both reasons mixed together that led him to shoot JJ.

 

[NewAge]

If you do a search for Jesse James death photo then also look at John Wesley Hardin's photo.
The exit wounds are almost identical as both men were shot in the back of the head at close distances.

 

[Kace]

Did you notice the holsters with the KGC markings?

I DID!...They Research, Photograph and Document Everything...Even say if something is disputed! I have Family Here and after I opened that link...I went downstairs for about an hour reading and deciding what I wanted. I Blamed You! haha!....(Im not the only one from here hosting them) but still..It was rude of me. Anyway, That place is AMAZING! I can't thank you enough for that link! Great Place For Gifts For Someone Too! My Uncle Is Gonna LOVE Christmas this year!! I Wish My Dad Was Still Here. I want to get the CSA on the Union Buckle and KGC Symols on the Holster and Belt for Him. I'm also gonna ask about sending in a grip to have a set done with the pearl? inlay in them. I really like those. The Really Fancy Studded Ones are Sweet Looking Too but I think for US they would be waayyy too flashy to wear and they would be just for show. One of my cousins has an Old Silver Studded Saddle like that and its Only Used For Parades. Lotta Money For Just Show On Both Holster and Saddle. Her Saddle was passed down a couple of generations and always was kept treated, polished and in climate controlled conditions so it's a Survivor! Thanks Again E!
Kace

 

[Kace]

Just do a google search for Jesse James death photo.....you can clearly see the exit wound.
If forum rules allow the posting of a death photo I will attach it.

I have read countless books about gunfighters,outlaws and the Wild West thru the years and am not citing anything from a certain web source.
I am also sure a quick google search of Jesse James/Robert Ford will supply lots of interesting reading material.

A photo of JJ and Ford a couple years before the murder was discovered a couple years ago.The owner wanted to sell it and it was in the process of being confirmed last I knew.I will have to check and see if that photo did end up being confirmed and what it brought at auction.

There is an affidavit signed by Robert Ford right after he shot JJ that he used a .45 SAA Colt......BUT
There is a .44 S and W that is engraved as the gun that killed JJ and Ford even posed for photos with that gun also but most historians discredit this gun as the weapon that killed JJ.

Ford would pose with any gun if you were paying him enough money ........Ford and his brother Charlie reenacted the murder hundreds of times on stage for money.

Ford either killed JJ simply for the 10k reward money or because JJ found out Ford had killed JJ's cousin Wood Hite and was afraid he would seek revenge.
My personal guess is it was both reasons mixed together that led him to shoot JJ.

I'm sure the forum will allow the posting of the death photo...We've posted several death photos and explicit descriptions of the exhumations with no issues and a Moderator IS participating in this thread. It's my understanding that if it's not Politics, Religion or X rated on the thread it's okay to post. Your referenced photo would be public and over 135yrs old so there would be no issue or copyright infringement. Post It....I can't Wait!! !!

The photo supposedly of Jesse James and Robert Ford...Is that the one where JJ is Cross-Eyed? They were sitting down next to each other and Ford was to the left of JJ when looking at the pic... If so, that's Not JJ and was documented. Adding to that...One Person confirmed it for a 40ish year old woman in Cedar County, MO..(close to me) who said her Grandmother left it to her to sell and buy some land. No one would pay any attention to her when she tried to sell it. She finally found a woman who does forensic photo analysis in Houston I think that did confirm it...However, No Historian on Jesse James Believes It Still or Will Pay any substantial amount of money for it. Not even in the ballpark parking lot of what BILLY the KID's photo brought. I don't know if Anything was offered for it on the basis of it being RF and JJ...It is a Tin Type I'll wait for NewAge to confirm this is the same photo and see if it's the same one I'm referencing... Could be two different photos!! We'll See Soon I Hope!!

Let us know and if it's Not that photo I'm referencing, I'll post the one that I'm talking about for comparison. Thanks Again NA!

You are Spot On about Ford doing Anything to Capitalize on JJ's Death...Just for that reason alone it's No Surprise O'Kelley Killed Him!

Thanks Again NA!
Kace

 

[Ditlihi]

NOT "found" face-down... BURIED in 1882 face-down; that body could have been CB or even JMJ...

And where does that story originate, that he was buried that way?

"D", I think you are correct; it was a J. Frank "Jesse" Dalton "feet burn marks"/neck "rope burns" (IMHO). CB MAY have been "JJ" as murdered in 1882, dunno. Hence, why he was buried "face down".

It's my understanding that when the body was first exhumed, to move it from the James farm to the cemetery, it was face up. Upon the second exhumation in 1995, the body was face down....which could easily be explained by movement during the prior exhumation.

Are you suggesting it was a James cousin using CB as an alias, that was murdered? I'm confused, lol.

Where did it say he was buried Face Down?

At the 1978 exhumation the skull was Face Up.

The casket although Severely Deteriorated was that Old kind that had a Glass Window in the lid above the face. Really Not Much left at all. The curious thing about that though was there was a slug in there that was NOT Damaged. Like it never hit anything hard such as Bone. I found that odd with a supposed Almost Point Blank HEAD SHOT! Like an afterthought to toss a Slug/Ball in the casket. There were fabric pieces but this Grave/Casket/Body was in REALLY BAD SHAPE.

The "Body" and I use that term loosely was Not Intact in Any Way in 1978.

Not sure where the statement is coming from that it was ever found face down, except innuendo from assorted stories. I was referring to the original exhumation in 1902, where it was removed to the cemetery. If the body was face up in the 1978 exhumation, then the rumors must originate with the 1995 exhumation, I'm assuming of course. I would also assume that by that late date, how could it even be determined HOW the body was facing, with that much deterioration.

Gruesome as it is, the bullet you mention is indeed an oddity. Especially in view of the original autopsy official who stated he removed the bullet from his brain where it had allegedly lodged. Then you have statements from the James family farm pointing to a hole in the wall from where the bullet allegedly exited. It's my understanding there was no exit wound on the body. Another oddity is the reports that the bullet found with the body was a different caliber from the weapon allegedly used by Ford. Lots of alleged here, lol.

Reb, I believe I have found the document you referred to that asserts the body WAS FOUND face down. It is Pastore's, " Jesse W. James Forensic Analysis ". The report can be downloaded as a PDF here...

https://www.academia.edu/21278067/Jesse_W._James_Forensic_Analysis


" ...In 1995 the remains were found face down, with the skull in the pelvic area... "


There are a lot more allegations in this document as well, one I might point out states that the injury to the temple/eyebrow is not an exit wound, but an injury sustained from a beating with his own gun.


* A. - ALLEGED

 

[Ditlihi]

I'm sure the forum will allow the posting of the death photo...We've posted several death photos and explicit descriptions of the exhumations with no issues and a Moderator IS participating in this thread. It's my understanding that if it's not Politics, Religion or X rated on the thread it's okay to post. Your referenced photo would be public and over 135yrs old so there would be no issue or copyright infringement. Post It....I can't Wait!! !!

The photo supposedly of Jesse James and Robert Ford...Is that the one where JJ is Cross-Eyed? They were sitting down next to each other and Ford was to the left of JJ when looking at the pic... If so, that's Not JJ and was documented. Adding to that...One Person confirmed it for a 40ish year old woman in Cedar County, MO..(close to me) who said her Grandmother left it to her to sell and buy some land. No one would pay any attention to her when she tried to sell it. She finally found a woman who does forensic photo analysis in Houston I think that did confirm it...However, No Historian on Jesse James Believes It Still or Will Pay any substantial amount of money for it. Not even in the ballpark parking lot of what BILLY the KID's photo brought. I don't know if Anything was offered for it on the basis of it being RF and JJ...It is a Tin Type I'll wait for NewAge to confirm this is the same photo and see if it's the same one I'm referencing... Could be two different photos!! We'll See Soon I Hope!!

Let us know and if it's Not that photo I'm referencing, I'll post the one that I'm talking about for comparison. Thanks Again NA!

You are Spot On about Ford doing Anything to Capitalize on JJ's Death...Just for that reason alone it's No Surprise O'Kelley Killed Him!

Thanks Again NA!
Kace

Just do a google search for Jesse James death photo.....you can clearly see the exit wound.
If forum rules allow the posting of a death photo I will attach it.

I have read countless books about gunfighters,outlaws and the Wild West thru the years and am not citing anything from a certain web source.
I am also sure a quick google search of Jesse James/Robert Ford will supply lots of interesting reading material.

A photo of JJ and Ford a couple years before the murder was discovered a couple years ago.The owner wanted to sell it and it was in the process of being confirmed last I knew.I will have to check and see if that photo did end up being confirmed and what it brought at auction.

There is an affidavit signed by Robert Ford right after he shot JJ that he used a .45 SAA Colt......BUT
There is a .44 S and W that is engraved as the gun that killed JJ and Ford even posed for photos with that gun also but most historians discredit this gun as the weapon that killed JJ.

Ford would pose with any gun if you were paying him enough money ........Ford and his brother Charlie reenacted the murder hundreds of times on stage for money.

Ford either killed JJ simply for the 10k reward money or because JJ found out Ford had killed JJ's cousin Wood Hite and was afraid he would seek revenge.
My personal guess is it was both reasons mixed together that led him to shoot JJ.

Historic Jesse James photograph with killer Robert Ford proven authentic | Daily Mail Online


I have sincere doubts that this is accurate. I do not believe these two are the same man (JWJ) at all.



* A. - ALLEGED

 

[Ditlihi]

In fact, the man in this photo more resembles J. Frank Dalton than he does the accepted photo's of Jesse Woodson James.

 

[Kace]

Let Me Know iF Two of the Same Pics Attach For Viewing. Hit like Please

 

[Kace]

View attachment 1495267View attachment 1495267











Hit Like If You Can See These (Same Pic)

 

[Ditlihi]

View attachment 1495267View attachment 1495267




View attachment 1495271






Hit Like If You Can See These (Same Pic)

One of them came through.

Question. Is it just me, or are these two completely different men? I realize they are both ' attributed ' as JWJ, but I just have to shake my head, lol.

 

[Kace]

DIT... Thank You!!

I Agree With You On Your Pics!

Looking at yours and mine...Note the Ears on the A JJ-RF Photo. The Known photo of JJ, his earlobes are not attached...The Other Man has Attached Earlobes. Ear sizes change as we age but Not ATTACHED vs Non-Attached. The side by side I posted is Very Clear on this among other things. The Man with Attached Lobes is The Same One In The Pic of Supposed RF-JJ.

NEXT: Compare Hairlines...Very Different and like I said before, I'm Not Sure but I Don't Think Hair Plugs or Extensions were all the rage back then.

D-They Are Different Men...No Doubt. JWJ of MO is the one with the receding hairline and detached earlobes.