DO TREASURES HAVE REAL SPIRITS

[Oroblanco]

No sir, the New Testament teaches us to pray to the Father, not to each other. Yes, the Savior himself alluded to the finding of hidden treasures buried in the field, but it was a parable of a man FINDING a treasure in the field, not seeking one. And he certainly didn't tell us to contact the dead to find one.

Okay, back on topic.

That is confusing praying with a seance. A seance is not prayer. Jesus even made use of dead people to attest to his power, raising them from death. Part of the Jesuit incantation to make spirits reveal hidden treasure was to also release the spirit from being trapped in that task. Mediums have been used to help locate missing persons and even capture & prosecute criminals. There are cases in which a dead person has "unfinished business" in which the living can help to bring closure if given the necessary information.

I can give you an example. Three days after my father died, my mother had a dream in which my father visited her, and told her that he had lent a piece of equipment to a friend of his, and that friend should either return it or pay for it. My mother and family took a sort of "inventory" of his belongings, and could not find anything that was missing so she did nothing and figured it was just a dream. Two days later, that friend met my mother at the local post office and paid her for the equipment he had borrowed, which none of us had even been aware was missing, nor would have said anything about it since there was no proof and we were not sure anything had been borrowed. The friend stated that he had a "dream" and felt he should return it or pay for it, and as he needed the equipment in his work he bought it. No one "prayed" to any dead person about this in any way.

A Christian has nothing to fear from any dead person, even evil dead persons. I have found NO prohibition against communication with the deceased in the NT, however am not going to force anyone to participate in a seance if they feel unconfortable with it either. Besides, we are warned not to "lay up treasures" in this world, <Matthew 6:19-21> yet millions of people are doing just that, in the form of 401K accounts and other methods of amassing a real 'treasure' for retirement. How do we square that with a direct warning from the Saviour?

Actually there is a hint in that same NT gospel, that spirits may remain "attached" to treasures they had accumulated in life, which does no good for those spirits and keeps them from the rewards of heaven.

According to the North Carolina folklore collected by Frank C. Brown, light is seen over buried treasure; if you watch for several nights and do not speak, you will find it. The Frank C. Brown Collection of NC Folklore: Vol. VII: Popular ..., Part 2, pp 179. This strange phenomenon is SO common in folklore from the east coast to the southwest, perhaps there really is something to it? This discussion has been fascinating, the sheer number of hits proves that, yet most of the people reading are not willing to share their own experiences.

If we are afraid of the topic then the discussion is probably done, sorry to say - a handful of us cannot tell endless stories of our experiences for each of us probably only has a few or even just one. I don't know how to get people to open up other than to reassure them that if anyone tries to ridicule them or otherwise attack them, I for one will back you up and am sure that others here will as well. Each story may be similar to the rest, and yet may have a piece of the puzzle too.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, no offense intended so if we disagree I hope we can do so happily; I hope that others will choose to share some of their experiences as this discussion could go MUCH farther if more will participate. I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

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[Crosse De Sign]

Um - that is an Old Testament rule,not a NT rule, and all of the OT except the 10 Commandments are fulfilled. Where in the NT does it say we can not communicate with the dead, in a search for treasures? Did not the Saviour himself allude to the finding of hidden treasures buried in fields? Besides no one would be "Forced" to participate, and some of us are even Atheists for that matter so would hardly care about any religious connotations right? I sure am not going to twist anyone's arm to join in any séance(s). Oh well just surprised me at the reaction, must be some folks are following the OT rather than the NT.

Oroblanco

Oro Amigo

The statement Jesus made, of fulfilling "the law or the prophets"
of The Old Testament, also states in St. Matthew 5:17-18:

17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am
not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18. For verily (truly) I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one
jot or tittle shall in no wise (way) pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Then in the next verse, He further explains his point.

19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the
kingdom of heaven.

Since man was not able to keep the laws and principles given
by GOD to the prophets perfectly, the fulfilment of man
needing Him as an atonement for their sins, is what
He means, to complete the Master Plan, to fulfil it.

I simply said that I would not be interested, in participating
in trying contacting, or utilizing any spirits other than
The LORD's Holy Spirit.

I realize people have different thoughts about spirits,
and they are free to try whatever they want.

A meeting to conjure up devils, or treasure guardians,
would not be for me.

To get them to be quiet, to bind them, to cast them
away, would be more what I think of in dealing with
them, not seeking anything from them.

Also, the treasure Jesus referred to, "a pearl of great price"
was really in reference to the kingdom of GOD, which is
actually His Treasured Souls, and the field is the world.

I haven't seen The Master ever referring to talking
to spirits, other than telling them to come out of people.
He refers to unclean spirits, and spirits of infirmity.

If people have used methods of consulting and talking to
spirits, to gain knowledge to recover treasure, that is
their business.

But I wouldn't want to do anything like that myself.
If He is my power source, for me to ask one of His
enemies for knowledge or guidance, I don't think
the LORD would be happy about me doing it,
that is my personal convictions...

As always, thanks for your input.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ONE "Rule" for ME... "DO Unto Others, as You Would Have THEM... Do Unto YOU"; GOLDEN RULE...?

 

[Old Silver]

That is confusing praying with a seance. A seance is not prayer. Jesus even made use of dead people to attest to his power, raising them from death.

Raising people from the dead is not the same thing as using a spirit board. Not even close. You seem to confuse things with other, unrelated things.

Part of the Jesuit incantation to make spirits reveal hidden treasure was to also release the spirit from being trapped in that task. Mediums have been used to help locate missing persons and even capture & prosecute criminals.

Jesuits and mediums are not Christ.

I can give you an example. Three days after my father died, my mother had a dream in which my father visited her, and told her that he had lent a piece of equipment to a friend of his, and that friend should either return it or pay for it. My mother and family took a sort of "inventory" of his belongings, and could not find anything that was missing so she did nothing and figured it was just a dream. Two days later, that friend met my mother at the local post office and paid her for the equipment he had borrowed, which none of us had even been aware was missing, nor would have said anything about it since there was no proof and we were not sure anything had been borrowed. The friend stated that he had a "dream" and felt he should return it or pay for it, and as he needed the equipment in his work he bought it. No one "prayed" to any dead person about this in any way.

This I believe, but like you said, no one "prayed" to any dead person about this in any way. Once again, unrelated issues. Spiritual things do happen to us at times, but that's in no way equal to praying to, or trying to communicate with those who have passed.

A Christian has nothing to fear from any dead person, even evil dead persons.

It's not about fearing the dead, it's about fearing God.

Besides, we are warned not to "lay up treasures" in this world, <Matthew 6:19-21> yet millions of people are doing just that, in the form of 401K accounts and other methods of amassing a real 'treasure' for retirement. How do we square that with a direct warning from the Saviour?

That might be a good question, but once again, that's a separate issue. It has nothing to do with communicating with the dead.

According to the North Carolina folklore collected by Frank C. Brown, light is seen over buried treasure; if you watch for several nights and do not speak, you will find it. The Frank C. Brown Collection of NC Folklore: Vol. VII: Popular ..., Part 2, pp 179. This strange phenomenon is SO common in folklore from the east coast to the southwest, perhaps there really is something to it? This discussion has been fascinating, the sheer number of hits proves that, yet most of the people reading are not willing to share their own experiences.

I can't say there's nothing to the folklore, but it still has nothing to do with trying to communicate with the dead. These are separate issues.

 

[Oroblanco]

Cross de Sign wrote

Oro Amigo
The statement Jesus made, of fulfilling "the law or the prophets"
of The Old Testament, also states in St. Matthew 5:17-18:
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am
not come to destroy, but to fulfil.<snip>

Fulfill is the key term here - if anyone cares to look it up, it means "completed, finished". This is why so many Christians are free to eat pork, do not have to stone children for certain misbehaviors and numerous other prohibitions of the OT. If you think I am way off base, look up the Greek term "plērōsai" in Matt. 5:17.
　
　

Old Silver wrote

Raising people from the dead is not the same thing as using a spirit board. Not even close. You seem to confuse things with other, unrelated things.

This from you, after you are confusing PRAYER with communication. Do you pray when you talk to someone on the phone? More in a moment.

Old Silver also wrote

Jesuits and mediums are not Christ.

Who said they were? You are confusing things again.

Old Silver also wrote

This I believe, but like you said, no one "prayed" to any dead person about this in any way. Once again, unrelated issues. Spiritual things do happen to us at times, but that's in no way equal to praying to, or trying to communicate with those who have passed.

It is absolutely related, it was a case of communication with a deceased person. Praying is not the same as communication - or you would be "praying" to talk to someone on the phone, or writing them a letter. Prayer goes with worship to a superior being, not to a human alive or dead. Or are you praying to us reading your messages? If so it is not worth that effort for none of us have any power to help or harm you. Do you interpret someone asking you a question as a prayer? Of course not!

I would suggest that you look into the 'sleeping prophet" Edgar Cayce, who claimed that his communications with the deceased took place via dreams in a dreamlike trance.

Old Silver also wrote

It's not about fearing the dead, it's about fearing God.

That is your interpretation. God is not a dead human being.

Old Silver also wrote

<snip>

Please do not try to preach to me in your own interpretation of scripture, I assure you that I have indeed studied scripture for a number of years. I can see that you are uncomfortable with the topic, and may be attempting to derail it. As far as I am concerned, you have succeeded. In fact you, and anyone else fearful that this is sinful, probably should not be even discussing it.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, it has been an interesting discussion though it could have been much better had we more people participating instead of just reading. I am done here, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

I will leave you with coffee!

　
　
　
　
　
　

 

[Old Silver]

Oro, I am not fearful of this being sinful, because I don't dabble in it. It's those who do it that should fear. I was simply trying to discuss the issues with you, as you seemed to want, since you brought it up. But obviously you don't want to hear anything that doesn't agree with what you want to be true. So have fun and find lots of treasure.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Gentlemen,

Thank You All, Very Kindly, for your spirited discussion.

I think I'll have to agree, we're all entitled to our own personal
beliefs, as we know. It is ok to express them, but the taunting
is noticeable by all, from who all.

This train is slowin' down for the curve,
comin' up around the bend. It's too hard puttin'
the cars back on, and after all of them cool posts
that good people spent their precious time writing.

Let's see, it seems there must be some more

treasure stories people are holdin' back.

Oh, but the spirits do like to distract

But we have seen this all before.

Everybody take care, and have a Happy Thanksgiving ...

 

[Crosse De Sign]

ONE "Rule" for ME... "DO Unto Others, as You Would Have THEM... Do Unto YOU"; GOLDEN RULE...?

Uh huh...

Rebel, you've done your share
of trying to disrupt this thread.
With your timely comments,
but, no problem Amigo. I
have seen other examples
of your behavior, in other
threads. This isn't the
first. Golden Rule?
Ha Ha Ha...

 

[Old Silver]

Old Silver

I recall he once told spirits that were possessing a man,
to hold their peace, and then told them where to go.

Seems that he always took total authority, over any
and all of them spirits that He came in contact with,
including the devil himself, and told us to also do
it in his name, but specifically, only in his all
powerful name, the power he gave us.

I think that would apply to anything we may do,
that pertains to spirits, other than His Holy Spirit.
What do you think? Thanks for your input...

Casting out devils, yes. But communing with saints that have gone on is not of God.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Casting out devils, yes. But communing with saints that have gone on is not of God.

Yeah, I didn't mean communicating with spirits, or
souls of the dead, good or bad. Or, talking to the evil
spirits of darkness, very dangerous. I know the LORD
said it was an abomination to him. Old Testament?

Hmmm, He also said: I Am The Same, yesterday,
today, and forever. So if he didn't like it before Christ
walked among men, who claimed to be one with the Father,
I don't think he started liking it then. He also said:
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Word
Shall Stand Forever. That's what I believe, and
because He clearly said it, not man. Thanks...

[EDIT Added Note: It's also not a good idea, to add to,
or to take way, from the Holy Scriptures of GOD's word.

He said, He would add all of the plagues
that are in His Book, or take away the name
of anyone that did such, out of The Book Of Life.
That would mean spiritual death of the soul, forever.
Not worth seeking after, or even acquiring a mere
temporary earthly treasure, without His blessing.

 

[Old Silver]

Yeah, I didn't mean communicating with spirits, or
souls of the dead, good or bad. Or, talking to the evil
spirits of darkness, very dangerous. I know the LORD
said it was an abomination to him. Old Testament?

Hmmm, He also said: I Am The Same, yesterday,
today, and forever. So if he didn't like it before Christ
walked among men, who claimed to be one with the Father,
I don't think he started liking it then. He also said:
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Word
Shall Stand Forever. That's what I believe, and
because He clearly said it, not man. Thanks...

Yeah, I just wish more people could understand that.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Yeah, I just wish more people could understand that.

I think His chosen, that have spiritual eyes
to see, and ears to hear, do know the
truth of His word. Anyone can take
a little here and there out of
context, and create their
own doctrine. That doesn't
make it the whole truth,
His real, most powerful truth...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Uh huh...

Rebel, you've done your share
of trying to disrupt this thread.
With your timely comments,
but, no problem Amigo. I
have seen other examples
of your behavior, in other
threads. This isn't the
first. Golden Rule?
Ha Ha Ha...

TY... STALKING me, eh...? "Disrupt" is an INTERESTING word; PROOF...?

 

[Mastiff4me]

To you folks holding back - don't worry about anyone ridiculing you or trying to pick an argument, we are sharing our stories not trying to prove a court case after all. very well said sir oroblanco

really?

 

[texasred777]

There are so many 'religions' that it just boggles the mind; or at least it boggles my mind. I've not been in a lot of churches of different denominations, but I have been in several churches of different denominations. I've been to the Pentecost, Nazarene, Assembly of God, Baptist, Catholic, Church of Christ, Disciples of Christ (Christian Church), Methodist, and several 'non-denominational' churches.
I'm sure that all of these different denominations believe they are following the teachings of the Bible. Can they all be right? I don't believe all of them are right; but I didn't say they are 'wrong'. How can I know which is the true path to righteousness? Some churches believe it's ok to drink alcohol, some don't. Some believe it's ok to dance, some don't. Some believe it's ok to do a lot of things that others believe is wrong.
Want to know the answer? Well, as I see the answer! A person much live the life that he sees as the right way. If you don't feel that something is wrong, you can do this thing without it being sinful. But if you do something that you feel is not right, then it is sinful. If you can communicate with spirits without feeling guilt, then I believe it's ok. If you feel that drinking alcohol is not sinful, then I don't believe it is sinful to do so.
As for drinking alcohol, I once talked to a minister of the Nazarene church about it. He told me just what I thought he would. He said that drinking alcohol wasn't sinful, but getting 'drunk' was sinful. He said that everyone that he had ever known that drank got drunk. He said that was the reason that the Nazarene church believed drinking was sinful.
At one time I felt called to preach. At the time I was a member of the Nazarene church. The pastor encouraged me to prepare a sermon or two and deliver them at the church. The first sermon was about Saul and how sin can wreck one's life. It followed Saul's life and how his sins eventually caused him to take his life by falling on his sword. In the story was his encounter with the woman of Endora, and how she brought forth the 'spirit' of Samuel. The Bible speaks of Samuel's 'mantle' being recognized by Saul. Yes, I believe spirits can be contacted. Is it sinful? I don't know. I would be afraid to contact one. If someone feels it's not wrong, then I believe it would be alright to try to do so; but I would caution them to be extremely careful in doing so! They may very well get more than they bargained for!
I don't know how much of this might be helpful, or even how well it relates to spirits and treasures. I can only say that this what came to mind while reading the last few days of posts to the thread. I have enjoyed this thread so much! I hope it continues. I still have a story/happening or two to tell about sometime. It seems that I can't remember enough of the pertinent information when I'm on the forum to try to tell theses stories. I get sidetracked while reading the posts. I guess I'll have to start making notes. lol The old (and I do mean old) mind is slipping as the ages roll on!
I want to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving! My daughter and son-in-law were starting the preparations yesterday. I've got to make the fruit salad either tomorrow or Wednesday. I believe that's about I'm to do; well, except for helping with keeping the kitchen clean for them. While they prepare the feast, I'll be trying to keep the dishes and utensils washed up for the next usage. lol Yep, kitchen cleaning patrol!

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Hey Tex

I believe you have a good spirit,
and I think I'm right. I try to have a
good spirit, but know I'm not perfect
by a long way.

I don't think people are always right
because they think they are, though
I also see your point. We all have
our different beliefs.

If someone sets out to hurt someone,
for example, because they believe it's
OK, we know that doesn't make it alright.

Distinguishing between good and evil
is very objectionable, the same as with
interpreting, understanding, believing
spiritually pertinent things.

Opinions can be presented, and some
may not think they are right. We all
follow our own conscience, and will
all answer for our own actions,
whether right or wrong, as
judged by The Lord.

It's obvious that we will not all
agree on everything, tho we can
be respectful, and if we can be
helpful to each other, that is
much better than arguing.

I really think some do try to
be helpful to others, and it
shows, with a kind spirit.

Thanks for your input,

Happy Thanksgiving to you too...

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Been seriously studying GOD's word since I was 9.
Never have really gone for anything dark like that.

So, Rebel, if any of y'all are wanting to be having
a séance, you can surely count me out, brother...

Should've worded this differently, like:

Rebel, If that's really what you're
wanting to do, that seems strange.

After all, who would really want to meet
with an ordained Pentecostal minister who
has not quoted God's word on this thread,
which is directly related to the topic, but
rather likes to talk about ghosts giving
messages in dreams, and jokes about
having a group séance

Needless to say, I have known a few
ministers, some of them from different
churches, none ever talked of such things.

Anyway, now we know that some of our
acquaintance, may be interested in talking
to such treasure related spirits.

If that's your choice, you don't have to try to
persuade any one else, that it's scripturally OK.

What did you think, that a conversation and possible
agreement on the subject, would be just the thing, to
get the power of the group to call upon spirits, to show
the way to obtain the desired wealth, with the ability
to get the help and info from a treasure spirit?

How have people come out, that have supposedly used
that way of treasure hunting in the past? The Spanish?
Who were known to have tortured, lied, murdered, and
ruthlessly destroyed empires, in the name and supposed
power of their God, in the quest of the vast treasures they
were known to have acquired? Then supposedly used evil
spirits, to guard the treasures, some of which they
supposedly never got to enjoy, and often never
made it back to?

Shouldn't that much treasure, if they were in the right,
have given them the power to rule the world? The pirates
weren't able to steal all of it , What happened to the
immense wealth they made it home with? Fought
expensive wars they lost, and so didn't rule the
world, after all that work, with their many
extraordinary skills, and industrious
treasure accumulating abilities...

Not everything that men can go and do, and think is
with the power and authority of their God, is his will...

The Jesuits? Who weren't even supposed to be engaged
in such mining activities, but did secretly, and supposedly
had to cache and leave it, when they were expelled by
the Inquistadores, who were known to have been
pretty ruthless also.

Why weren't they able to then recover All of the remaining
hidden treasures, if they knew of such definite power? It
just leaves more questions than answers.

The using of incantations, or summons, is referred to,
as a form of witchcraft, utilizing evil spirits. Those
spirits don't appear to have been very reliable,
in giving good success to those who cached
treasures, and supposedly then had
commanded them to guard it, or
asking them, for their help to
find it. Some of it has been
recovered, with no help or
consent, from such spirits
at all. Just the nerve to
locate the site through
research, and dig it up.
Maybe those treasure
hunters called on
their God's Spirit.

So those spirits that are supposedly guarding
valuable treasures, must have limitations, as
to their power. I refuse to fear them, having
a stronger spirit that is within me. They are
inferior, and of a defeated enemy, I believe.

There have been, and obviously are ongoing
unseen spiritual battles over hidden treasures,
that various spirits know to exist. Even of
some of those, the souls of men, that are
highly treasured of the LORD's Spirit Himself...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Should've worded this differently, like:

Rebel, If that's really what you're
wanting to do, that seems strange.

After all, who would really want to meet
with an ordained Pentecostal minister who
has not quoted God's word on this thread,
which is directly related to the topic, but
rather likes to talk about ghosts giving
messages in dreams, and jokes about
having a group séance

Needless to say, I have known a few
ministers, some of them from different
churches, none ever talked of such things.

Anyway, now we know that some of our
acquaintance, may be interested in talking
to such treasure related spirits.

If that's your choice, you don't have to try to
persuade any one else, that it's scripturally OK.

What did you think, that a conversation and possible
agreement on the subject, would be just the thing, to
get the power of the group to call upon spirits, to show
the way to obtain the desired wealth, with the ability
to get the help and info from a treasure spirit?

How have people come out, that have supposedly used
that way of treasure hunting in the past? The Spanish?
Who were known to have tortured, lied, murdered, and
ruthlessly destroyed empires, in the name and supposed
power of their God, in the quest of the vast treasures they
were known to have acquired? Then used evil spirits, to
guard the treasures, some of which they supposedly
never got to enjoy, and often never made it back to?

Shouldn't that much treasure, if they were in the right,
have given them the power to rule the world? The pirates
weren't able to steal all of it , What happened to the
immense wealth they made it home with ?

Not everything that men can go and do, and think is
with the power and authority of their God, is his will...

The Jesuits? Who weren't even supposed to be engaged
in such mining activities, but did secretly, and supposedly
had to cache and leave it, when they were expelled by
the Inquistadores, who were known to have been
pretty ruthless also.

Why weren't they able to then recover All of the remaining
hidden treasures, if they knew of such definite power? It
just leaves more questions than answers.

The using of incantations, or summons, is referred to,
as a form of witchcraft, utilizing evil spirits. Those
spirits don't appear to have been very reliable,
in giving good success to those who cached
treasures, and supposedly then had
commanded them to guard it, or
asking them for their help to
find it. Some of it has been
recovered, with no help or
consent, from such spirits
at all. Just the nerve to
locate the site through
research, and dig it up.
Maybe the treasure
hunters called on
their God's spirit.

So those spirits that are supposedly guarding
valuable treasures, must have limitations, as
to their power. I refuse to fear them, having
a stronger spirit that is within me. They are
inferior, and of a defeated enemy, I believe.

There has been, and obviously are ongoing
spiritual battles over hidden treasures,
that various spirits know to exist. Even
those souls that are highly treasured
by the LORD Himself...

I CLARIFIED, that it was a JOKE!

 

[releventchair]

Cross you're being rather harsh on someone joking. You want to start insulting a religious person you are insulting the least of a brother. Uncool.
Evangelical belief that does not include all, and persecutes those not in agreement is the bane of history.
The topic is spirits and treasure.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Cross you're being rather harsh on someone joking. You want to start insulting a religious person you are insulting the least of a brother. Uncool.
Evangelical belief that does not include all, and persecutes those not in agreement is the bane of history.
The topic is spirits and treasure.

AGREE!