David and the Peralta stone maps.

[Quinan Bear]

I see that only one of you even tried to see what was there.

Yes, a spirit the sleeps four hours a day and that is the first part of the morning.
The photo is showing a spirit next to a man's head looking across the canyon to the other side. There is a cross high up on the edge of the cliff on the right of the canyon.

As for the reason i could tell that gold was not far away, is because the rocks in the river, Have all been leveled to get gold out of the cracks.

So, we have a man's face looking south, A spirit that sleeps in the morning, A cross that is above the cliff and a river that has been chipped to get to the gold in the cracks.

On the other side of the right hill, you will see three wikiups (i hope i spelled it right).
You can also see a dark red color between some of the rocks to the right side.

congrates Somehiker, i see you know what to look for, but did you see the work on the river before i said something?

 

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[Quinan Bear]

I said the picture was looking east, i was wrong. it is facing north. So that means the spirit faces the east.

 

[Cubfan64]

QB - Your imagination really runs rampant. Folks who put their feet on the ground out there can point out THOUSANDS of spots that look exactly like the one you have a lovely photo of here (with the exception of the whitish rock face).

Somehiker noticed the one thing that stood out in the photo (the whitish rock) which others of us also noticed. Beyond that, there's nothing that can't be found in pretty much every canyon out there.

 

[Old Dog]

Paul,
Notice the standing whodoos on the left side of the canyon.
A bunch of short looking stone pillars that stand like sentinels.
You see them occaisionally but here they seem prolific.
Hmmmmm.

Like I said not unusual to seea few, but here there are a lot of them.

 

[Quinan Bear]

QB - Your imagination really runs rampant. Folks who put their feet on the ground out there can point out THOUSANDS of spots that look exactly like the one you have a lovely photo of here (with the exception of the whitish rock face).

Somehiker noticed the one thing that stood out in the photo (the whitish rock) which others of us also noticed. Beyond that, there's nothing that can't be found in pretty much every canyon out there.

You said it Cactusjumper.
THOUSANDS< with the ECEPTION>.
It is obvious that I see and know a bit more then you give me credit for.

When you see a river bed that has been chipped away like that, it means that someone broke the rocks to get to something that was in the cracks (gold). If you follow the river up to where this chipping stops, then you are even closer to the vein. Now all you need to do is find it.
If there are a few canyons that are parallel with that one? then you can get an even better idea of where the vein is and how it runs. Look at a bigger picture then what you can see with your own two eyes, while your in those mountains, It is much bigger then we are and it covers a much larger area then most realise.

 

[Cubfan64]

QB - Your imagination really runs rampant. Folks who put their feet on the ground out there can point out THOUSANDS of spots that look exactly like the one you have a lovely photo of here (with the exception of the whitish rock face).

Somehiker noticed the one thing that stood out in the photo (the whitish rock) which others of us also noticed. Beyond that, there's nothing that can't be found in pretty much every canyon out there.

You said it Cactusjumper.
THOUSANDS< with the ECEPTION>.
It is obvious that I see and know a bit more then you give me credit for.

When you see a river bed that has been chipped away like that, it means that someone broke the rocks to get to something that was in the cracks (gold). If you follow the river up to where this chipping stops, then you are even closer to the vein. Now all you need to do is find it.
If there are a few canyons that are parallel with that one? then you can get an even better idea of where the vein is and how it runs. Look at a bigger picture then what you can see with your own two eyes, while your in those mountains, It is much bigger then we are and it covers a much larger area then most realise.

First of all, I'm surprised that someone as observant as you claim to be didn't notice that I'm NOT cactusjumper.

The only thing that is obvious - at least to me - is that you see "things" in every photo, every rock, every cloud and every google earth image - and everything seems to point to gold and treasure - what an amazing gift

Any chance the "chipping of the rocks" in the streambed you're looking at has been caused by years and years of flash floods driving stones and rocks down the canyon? I suppose not - I'm sure it's all a result of mining and prospecting activity.

 

[Quinan Bear]

Cubfan;
Sorry for the name mix up.

I have thought about the floods and other ways that this could happen. I see fresh chips in the riverbed that are not from years of floods, if that was the case then it was a mudslide.
years of flooding would not have broken the rock to such a point of having no cracks in it (gold hide outs). It is too evenly chipped across the river and up the river. I showed you the spirit and so now i will go around the corner up to the left of this picture, and give you the view of

"The miner and his mule, making his way to his mine on the other peak".

Notice the cactus just below the miner. it has a cut across it.


I believe that there is a "J" shape in the rock of the cliff edge that is on the right across from the spirit picture. I could also show you the 3 wikiups near there as well.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

David: I see that you are not aware of our stream conditions in the desert country, particularly the flash floods. I can show you thousands of kilometers of identical stream beds. when the summer Cumulus Nimbus' grow to fantastic heights, a tremendous amt of water will fall in a very short while.

There is nothing like it in Canada.

In this town I can show you a flashflood of over 2 meters that came through the streets. Notice the high water mark on the wall.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee290/Tayopa/PictureAlamosflood098.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee290/Tayopa/PictureAlamosflood057.jpg

 

[Ponchosportal]

Quinan Bear,

Based on my experience in the field as a geological engineer I would suggest that there is very little if anything in your stream bed rock that looks like it did 200 years ago if you consider periodic flash flooding,wind erosion, and other likely impacts.

Best of luck in your search,
Poncho

 

[Old Dog]

Not unusual to see that much water and (except for the mud) watch it dissappear in 30 minutes.

 

[Cubfan64]

QB - There's simply no way to look at a photo like that and see "fresh" chips in the rock and make the assumption it's due to prospecting for gold.

Old Dog - I do agree that there's a decent amount of "hoodoos" in the photo, but if memory serves me from the few trips I've taken out there, in certain areas of the Superstitions it's not at all uncommon to see significant formations like that in alot of canyon ridges.

Maybe someone who's been out there alot more than I have can chime in.

 

[Quinan Bear]

Quinan Bear,

Based on my experience in the field as a geological engineer I would suggest that there is very little if anything in your stream bed rock that looks like it did 200 years ago if you consider periodic flash flooding,wind erosion, and other likely impacts.

Best of luck in your search,
Poncho

So you're saying that this chipping of rock could not be from someone with a pick?
As a geological engineer, you should know that this natural weathering that you say caused this? Is not what you see here, for the simple reason that if it was floods or weather, then the rocks would have cracks and crevices that go into the rocks but here you don't see this, all the creases were removed to get to the fine gold that was in them. If rocks did this handy work, then where are all the rocks? I am sure that there should be a very large amount somewhere at the bottom of the canyon.

Another thing that seems to be forgotten by most, is that i started out, by looking at the rocks as a whole, within the Superstitions and area. Then i studied these areas up close. Then I would use photos, like the one i posted, to show me a closer view of that area. Now just because i am not really there in person, doesn't mean I can't still see the area quite well.

It's all good. I tried to show you something and you don't want to look. I can say that there is a cactus with a gash in it, at every turn that you need to take. There is the spirit at the beginning of the canyon and a face looking south, after you pass that spirit, turn around and you see three wikiups to the west. Continue up the canyon and you will see the miner headed to his mine. I have pics of all this. No worries though, I will stop and post things on the peralta stones instead.

Have a great day.

 

[cactusjumper]

OD,

For those of us who have spent a lot of time in the Supe's, David's picture might be considered a paucity of hoodoos.

This is only one picture of many that I have.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

David,

Your "river" is actually a creek that runs through the bottom of Boulder Canyon.
I could, of course, be wrong.

You can't tell anything from that picture concerning someone sticking a pick into the bedrock that has been exposed. For there to be any indication that extensive placering had been done in Boulder Canyon, there would need to be some showing of gold in the area.

That area has been prospected for many, many years by a number of qualified people. I have worked those bits of water myself, with little to show for it. I did my "panning" in that very canyon with a tablespoon. Unless the water is trapped in solid rock, it could easily be gone......completely in a few hours.

Making the judgements you are trying to make, from photographs and Google Earth pictures is not working. I realize you are unable to tolerate a trip into the mountains, but without that boots on the ground experience, you are doing a lot of unqualified guessing.

It shows.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Welcome to Treasurenet Ponchosportal!

I have to 'ditto' the remarks of our mutual amigos Cubfan, Ponchosportal, Cactusjumper and others - I do not believe that it is possible to make so many conclusions about the geology, mining history, 'treasure markers' etc from photos alone amigo Quinan Bear. Those stone chips could have been done by Indians making stone tools for all we know. I would be more convinced of your claims if you could show a photo of an ore sample taken from the site(s) you have indicated. <hint, hint >

You may have it 100% correct; I sure can't say, and you may well have it 100% wrong, which is what I suspect. Too many other treasure hunters and prospectors have already gone over the very sites you have shown, without finding much to indicate the presence of any gold or silver mines. I know, many a treasure hunter had little prospecting experience but don't kid yourself into thinking that NONE of them did.

Love the photos however, really getting to me with the frigging crummy weather we have had lately. <wah, wah, wah> Can't wait for nice weather.
Roy

 

[Old Dog]

Roy,
I know what you mean. a desert rat like myself goes into withdrawl pretty quick between work and weather. LOL.

 

[Quinan Bear]

I appears to me that you guys are all professionals, when it comes to the LDM and the Peralta stones.
No matter what is said about them, you dismiss it in any way that you can. So you can dismiss me all you want. I stand firm on my knowledge of those stones.
If you think that Jacob Waltz's mine is going to be visible and you are going to see it when you get near it? then you will never find that mine.
Mr.Waltz spent several weeks removing any and all traces of the vein and the gold that was visible in the canyon. After covering the vein, he made one tunnel in an area that was well hid from the people that would pass by. The mine was just feet from a wide, well worn trail.

If you think that there is no gold vein in that area, just because you never found it ? Then you are sadly mistaken. I know for a fact that quartz veins can run for hundreds for miles in places, some wide ones and some narrow. Each vein passes a mineral rich zone in the rock and absorbs it in the vein. This place is not just on one vein. It can be on several veins in that area. Think of it as i cross between a spider web and lightning, in the way that it travels through the rocks. The trick is to find the center zone of this webbing. There may be hundreds of off veins that will not have any ore, while a few others will.
You find mines all around these Mountains, inside and out. I believe that there is a gold bearing vein there and that there is one of those center zones in the Superstitions. You just have to look at the rocks to see that. I am working on the Peralta Stones anyway so it is no problem if you don't want to see anything about the LDM.

I have given you the Heart location and all the areas within it are there for you to discover. The Vault might be a little difficult to get to but I'm sure you will figure it out. The mine just south of the crater is the one that would be best to see first.

My help down there will do the work for me, so you need not worry about me trying to get your help in the documentation.

Best of luck to you in your hunt.

 

[cactusjumper]

David,

I am not sure what you consider to be a "professional", but my thought would be that it is someone who makes their living at their profession. Don't believe that would include anyone here, but I could be wrong.
Having researched this (broad) subject for over 50 years, I do feel that I can at least offer a qualified opinion.

You have shown, through your posts, that your own knowledge of the legends of, and the Superstition Mountains is very superficial....at best.

Because of that, a number of folks find it difficult to accept your claims of superior knowledge, even though they may very well be true. It would help your case if you could show us where you have been successful, using your Google Earth methods, in finding and working other mineral deposits.

As Roy has mentioned, pictures of the location and ore would go a long way in building confidence in your theories. Google Earth pictures have not worked so far, and I doubt they will do much to convince anyone here.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[BILL96]

QB,
You mentioned that you see three "wikiups" in the photo. I am familiar with the term, are you saying that you see traditional Apache wikiups in that photo?
Thanks,
Bill

 

[Cubfan64]

I appears to me that you guys are all professionals, when it comes to the LDM and the Peralta stones.

Wow! That's a generous assessment of some of us, and quite a compliment however I echo CJ's comment that none of us here would ever consider ourselves to be professionals on either the LDM or the Peralta Stones. I'm assuming of course that your statement wasn't meant to be sarcastic

I stand firm on my knowledge of those stones.

Being stubborn and "standing firm" in your beliefs is fine as long as you evaluate future data and results with an open mind and allow them to decide whether your theory is proven true or false. The worst thing you can do is form your opinion and chisel it into stone in such a way that no matter where future evidence leads, you "skew" it so that it fits your theory.

If you think that Jacob Waltz's mine is going to be visible and you are going to see it when you get near it? then you will never find that mine.

I'm 100% CERTAIN that anyone who's spent any real time researching the LDM knows without a doubt that if there really is a mine, odds are it's covered in such a way that it won't be visible to the naked eye - I don't think anyone here has ever said anything to imply otherwise.

Mr.Waltz spent several weeks removing any and all traces of the vein and the gold that was visible in the canyon. After covering the vein, he made one tunnel in an area that was well hid from the people that would pass by. The mine was just feet from a wide, well worn trail.

You make statements such as these as though they are known facts and it's that kind of arrogance that loses you a great deal of credibility. The absolute truth is that the real facts of the LDM are very few and very far between. There are hundreds of "clues" to the location with nary a one proven to be 100% without a doubt true fact.

My help down there will do the work for me, so you need not worry about me trying to get your help in the documentation.

.

I don't recall anyone here "worrying" about anything related to what you think you may have found. I wish you luck as well.