Where are the new machines????

[b3y0nd3r]

Well here we are with spring right around the corner. So where are the new machines? ML with some gold machine, and Tesoro with another box machine(I guess these can't fail when you build on top of proven platforms) I say BIG DEAL! Where is the real innovation? Where is the machine that makes us go, "WOW"? If they are planning a march release, then I guess they haven't learned from other companies, which released machines in the spring time. I say it time and time again, release in September. And what about the Deus? My father's theory was they were waiting to see what is coming out. Disappointments all around.

 

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[b3y0nd3r]

I disagree. The "ground" that a detector must see-through, is the same ground that it was in the 1970s, as the ground is today.

There's no conspiracy of money-savings by manufacturers, or anything like that. REST ASSURED that if any of them could "make a better mousetrap" (even if it meant investing $$ for R&D), they MOST ASSUREDLY would.

All the "different technologies" that you speak of (1970s versus to-the-present) are merely a function of faster and smaller. And none of that changes the laws of physics, which is the medium through-which the signal must bounce: Solid soil. So the information coming back to the coil will always be limited on how much info. it contains. And no amount of further analyzing it (with "faster and smaller") will find information that simply isn't there.

Wake me up with entirely new technology comes along. Not just whistles and bells and faster and smaller of technology we currently have. Because that has reached the laws of physics.

x-rays, ground penetrating radar, micro waves, molecular analysis, as well as other technologies exist. Why not implement these?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

x-rays, ground penetrating radar, micro waves, molecular analysis, as well as other technologies exist. Why not implement these?

If it were/is as "presto" as it sounds, then .... viola ....... by all means ..... go ahead ! I will be the first to buy. What's stopping you or the manufacturers ? As soon as something comes out that can tell shape (not just blotchy pixel images of "blobs", but .... an actual TV view image)...... and as soon as something comes out that tells the difference between aluminum and gold, then the world will beat a path to your door. With thousand-dollar bills outstretched to give you.

Hence you are in on the ground floor, sure to be the next Bill Gates. Sssshhh, don't tell anyone else how easy it is ! Lest they beat you to the punch

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Money and time is what is stopping me. What is stopping manufacturers could be anything but if I had to guess, they are cheap and lazy. It's easier and cost effective to keep selling and re-branding the same machines with some mickey mouse features, than it is to create a whole new platform. Also, think about it, if they do make something that can truly revolutionize MD, they would never sell it, because all the finds would be gone and they would go out of business.

That is why an independent needs to be the first. Someone like from Geotec.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... What is stopping manufacturers could be anything but if I had to guess, they are cheap and lazy....

Already answered for you in post #41. My post # 43 was only in jest.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Already answered for you in post #41. My post # 43 was only in jest.

AFFIRMATIVE! Keep up they great work Tom! You will always be a "champion of metal detecting rights" to me!

 

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

OP did not even mention what they were using ? Nor what they were expecting ? nor what they were willing to pay? All kind of irrelevant till we know these things.

 

[sprailroad]

Tablet/phone integration? Way over my head. I could be wrong, but being a dinosaur as I am, it seems as though a younger generation wants instant results without much effort. Entry level machines, such as a Garrett Ace 150 or 250, are as good as machines costing $600.00 years ago. There are many really good detectors of all brands available, and I don't think there is any "Best" machine out there. Pick something you like and are comfortable with and learn IT. It IS tempting to want a newer bigger better (bad ass) detector, and the brands and models I've never owned? I read about some of the finds other members have found and with what machines they have found them with and wonder---perhaps THAT is a detector I should try. But then I'd most likely end up with 20+ different detectors, knowing alittle of each, and master of none. There will never be a detector that can read the date of a coin before you dig it (I'd like that), most of it depends on the operator and luck. Point is I guess, enjoy the hobby just for the sake of it. I could go on, but I'm beginning to feel all the hot air I may be putting out.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I think a GPS coordinate of every target your detector hits with a VDI number would be great. Which you could then through Bluetooth connect to an app on your phone that has like a google maps type interface so you could have a visual indication of every target you passed over that day.

The CTX has been doing exactly this for several years now.

 

[sprailroad]

Goldfleks & b3yOnd3r. It IS a hobby right? and not a vocation. You were taking the enjoyment out of it for me, but then I got it. I have the eyes and ears, just lacking the brain is all. If ignorance is bliss, then I must be a happy guy.

 

[Jason in Enid]

x-rays, ground penetrating radar, micro waves, molecular analysis, as well as other technologies exist. Why not implement these?

It is 2017 and metal detectors are still using 1970's tech. there are many different technologies out there can be applied to change the design and functionality of a detector. The bottom line is saving money, I understand that, but there would be many applications for a metal detector that can get a bead of what is in the ground.

You obviously weren't using metal detectors in the 1970s in order to make such a ridiculous claim. Even the cheapest, entry level detector today is a vast improvement over the top of the line technology from the 1970s.

I don't think you understand the basic principles of technology you seem to think should be combined with metal detectors.

X-Rays? First, beyond the extreme danger of such things, there MUST be a receiver on the opposite side to receive and create the image, so that makes this impossible to incorporate.
GPR has been around for decades and while it has made great improvements (just like our current metal detectors) they are large, heavy, VERY expensive, yet still don't have the resolution to see anything as small as a coin or ring. They are used to find building foundations, graves, and other ground disturbances measuring FEET in size.
Microwaves? Do you understand the term? If radio frequencies like that were useful in detecting, they would already be using them. Metal detecting technology is about power (which requires exponential increases for calculable returns), and we have been at that power threshold for a very long time. Want more power and depth? You better be carting around car batteries for the energy requirements.
Molecular analysis?!?!! Seriously, wtf? first, you have to HAVE THE OBJECT to perform such anaylsis and second, those already exist and are hella expensive. How is this going to improve metal detectors?

Face it folks, we made the last great advancements in detecting tech long ago when VLF discriminators were introduced. Minelab made the last great leap with multifreq machines and changing the signal analysis from a frequency domain to a time domain. Everything in the last few years is making baby step improvements, although they are still improvements. Sadly, tech research is extremely expensive and most companies do ZERO research. They are happy to continue re-boxing the same old tech with new decals and many people are happy to keep buying it.

A true discriminating PI will be a huge next step and if it's true that Whites is about to release one, that will be a game changer and Whites will dominate the market very quickly. IF, IF it's true. I'm always hesitant to believe the hype until I see it for sale.

 

[Goldfleks]

The CTX has been doing exactly this for several years now.

Sure, but that's tech in a $2500 detector. Tech that with how inexpensive GPS tech is, should be pretty common on every 2017 detector. Tech that costs $2500 because only one brand is incorporating it into their machines so they have a monopoly on the distribution. I'm sure the Minelabs are great and feel modern and hi-tech.

And I'm not saying you NEED this stuff to find coins and relics and gold. My most used detector is a beep and dig PI machine. It's about why should I buy NEW in 2016. Even if I bought my PI NEW, it's still a machine designed in 1996 (minor change in 2010). That's over 20 years old.

It's just why I just buy used detectors. I don't have a $2500 budget for a detector, but I could spring for up to $1000 if something was worth the money in extra features. I might have even bought a NEW Tesoro Sand Shark if the headphones were wireless instead of hard wired and gave me options to use Bluetooth earbuds instead of the painful/uncomfortable stock headphones. I'm not diving with the machine so I don't need waterproof headphones all the time and would prefer given the option to use a more comfortable headset if I'm going to be on the beach for 6 hours. That's literally ONE feature that's included on EVERY new gadget in 2016 (and has been included for YEARS) that would have pushed me to buy a New machine from Tesoro. They could have even left the hardwired headset if it's needed for diving. I would have just snugged it around the rod if I didn't want to use it. Just give me the OPTION.

I'm not saying re-design the entire platform. I understand that major advancements don't happen every year. But at least keep up with the times on your machines with some new bells and whistles every couple of years. Bells and whistles that are included on pretty much every other device on the market these days, not just the top of the line.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Jason in Enid, bravo on the excellent post. It's real easy for md'rs to dream and throw out $20 technology words. Dreaming up "conspiracies" or " manufacturer laziness" as the reason Star Trek inventions are not on Supermarket shelves. If only it were that easy.

Your post was a good one

 

[Jason in Enid]

I'm not saying re-design the entire platform. I understand that major advancements don't happen every year. But at least keep up with the times on your machines with some new bells and whistles every couple of years. Bells and whistles that are included on pretty much every other device on the market these days, not just the top of the line.

Yeah, but the CTX has the price point because it's does a LOT more than GPS. It's a multi-freq machine ($$$) that incorporates waterproofing while allowing you to change coils and headphones, and other features. Part of the price is also the R&D that went into it, and part is because nobody else can produce the same technology at the moment so it's because they can get away with it.

"bells and whistles" are also a double edged sword. Lots of people complain they don't use the GPS so they should be able to buy the same detector for less without it. You can't please everyone.

People also need to keep in mind that metal detecting is a VERY tiny niche hobby, so it will always have a higher price point just because of it's uniqueness

 

[Goldfleks]

"bells and whistles" are also a double edged sword. Lots of people complain they don't use the GPS so they should be able to buy the same detector for less without it. You can't please everyone.

I'll agree with that point too. It doesn't necessarily costs the MFGR any more money to produce different levels of the SAME device. Look at phones. You can buy the newest model of phone at varying levels of bells and whistles. They just lock out certain features if you don't pay for them. The cheapest model has all the bells and whistles built into it that the top of the line does, they are just not activated. Just like on a car I bought, the dealer asked if I wanted to buy the manufacturers alarm for an extra $500.00. I declined. He pulled out a pin under the steering column that broke the circuit of the alarm and politeley informed me that if I ever wanted an alarm, I could come back to any dealer at any time and have it re-connected (for a fee of course). My car HAS the alarm built into it strait from the factory, it's just a matter of if that feature is activated or not.

 

[Ammoman]

People also need to keep in mind that metal detecting is a VERY tiny niche hobby, so it will always have a higher price point just because of it's uniqueness

Wanna talk hobby price? My wife is a quilter. A top of the line Janome sewing machine has an MSRP of $12,000. She has this machine. She also decided she needed a top of the line $32,000 Long arm quilting machine to finish her quilts. The average queen size quilt costs around $250. for the fabric alone.

Our hobby is DIRT Cheap! 2,500 bucks gets me a top of the line Metal detector with all the bells and whistles and next to nothing in continued expenses. Auto restoration, wood working and just about every other hobby i can think of will drain the pocket with no end in sight.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Wanna talk hobby price? My wife is a quilter. A top of the line Janome sewing machine has an MSRP of $12,000. She has this machine. She also decided she needed a top of the line $32,000 Long arm quilting machine to finish her quilts. The average queen size quilt costs around $250. for the fabric alone.

Our hobby is DIRT Cheap! 2,500 bucks gets me a top of the line Metal detector with all the bells and whistles and next to nothing in continued expenses. Auto restoration, wood working and just about every other hobby i can think of will drain the pocket with no end in sight.

LOL, I understand that completely! Yes, detectors are expensive for what they contain, but its a VEEEEEERY cheap hobby! Most of my family are serious quilters and 2 of them have those long arm quilters. I think they could fill a tractor-trailer with the fabric they all have.

 

[Deft Tones]

Wanna talk hobby price? My wife is a quilter. A top of the line Janome sewing machine has an MSRP of $12,000. She has this machine. She also decided she needed a top of the line $32,000 Long arm quilting machine to finish her quilts. The average queen size quilt costs around $250. for the fabric alone.

Our hobby is DIRT Cheap! 2,500 bucks gets me a top of the line Metal detector with all the bells and whistles and next to nothing in continued expenses. Auto restoration, wood working and just about every other hobby i can think of will drain the pocket with no end in sight.

Yep! Least expensive long term hobby I ever tried....except fot whittling sticks.

And I see some beautifully crafted quilts in the 1500-2500 range. That's an expensive blanket!

 

[Chris R]

You obviously weren't using metal detectors in the 1970s in order to make such a ridiculous claim. Even the cheapest, entry level detector today is a vast improvement over the top of the line technology from the 1970s.

I don't think you understand the basic principles of technology you seem to think should be combined with metal detectors.

X-Rays? First, beyond the extreme danger of such things, there MUST be a receiver on the opposite side to receive and create the image, so that makes this impossible to incorporate.
GPR has been around for decades and while it has made great improvements (just like our current metal detectors) they are large, heavy, VERY expensive, yet still don't have the resolution to see anything as small as a coin or ring. They are used to find building foundations, graves, and other ground disturbances measuring FEET in size.
Microwaves? Do you understand the term? If radio frequencies like that were useful in detecting, they would already be using them. Metal detecting technology is about power (which requires exponential increases for calculable returns), and we have been at that power threshold for a very long time. Want more power and depth? You better be carting around car batteries for the energy requirements.
Molecular analysis?!?!! Seriously, wtf? first, you have to HAVE THE OBJECT to perform such anaylsis and second, those already exist and are hella expensive. How is this going to improve metal detectors?

Face it folks, we made the last great advancements in detecting tech long ago when VLF discriminators were introduced. Minelab made the last great leap with multifreq machines and changing the signal analysis from a frequency domain to a time domain. Everything in the last few years is making baby step improvements, although they are still improvements. Sadly, tech research is extremely expensive and most companies do ZERO research. They are happy to continue re-boxing the same old tech with new decals and many people are happy to keep buying it.

A true discriminating PI will be a huge next step and if it's true that Whites is about to release one, that will be a game changer and Whites will dominate the market very quickly. IF, IF it's true. I'm always hesitant to believe the hype until I see it for sale.

Molecular analysis, that cracked me up. I visualized someone waving a Gas Chromatograph with dual flame analyzers around on a stick.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk

 

[Goldfleks]

Goldfleks & b3yOnd3r. It IS a hobby right? and not a vocation. You were taking the enjoyment out of it for me, but then I got it. I have the eyes and ears, just lacking the brain is all. If ignorance is bliss, then I must be a happy guy.

It IS a hobby. But different people have different opinions about what is fun.

You sound like the type of guy who just wants to get out and swing his coil and listen to what's in the ground, and dig if you want, don't dig if you don't. Maybe come back to the site if it's good, maybe not. And you're happy with whatever you dig that day because you're happy to be outside. That's perfectly fine and dandy. That's how you approach your hobby and how you enjoy detecting. Reminds me of my dad when I showed him the ring I found and I was disappointed it was celestrium and not gold. And his response was the fun is in the find right? And I was like sure, it was fun to find the ring, but it was still disappointing to find out it wasn't gold. Just like the other large stainless steel ring I found. I was happy to find the ring but disappointed it wasn't of any value. I'm treasure hunting, and faux rings are as good as can slaw.

But back to the original point. I'm a min/maxer in everything I do. I like to be efficient and use whatever tools I have at my disposal to improve my odds of finding quality finds. Not just get out for the day and get some sun and hope I find something. So some modern convienence would assist me in these endeavours, even if it's convienence that you yourself wouldn't find use in. I like have data to analyze and statistics to parse. And that's currently something I'm lacking in this hobby, unless I buy a $2500 detector. And even if I did, the tech isn't cheap and available enough to be able to crowd source any useful information at $2500.

 

[Honest Samuel]

I remember back around 1965 when I purchased my first detector from Karl Von Mueller, he advice me to purchase a middle price detector, and take the earnings from it and purchased a higher price detector. That is what I am going to do with my new $250.00 detector. Tesoro came out with a new detector, and I got one. Good hunting and good luck.