Where are the new machines????

[b3y0nd3r]

Well here we are with spring right around the corner. So where are the new machines? ML with some gold machine, and Tesoro with another box machine(I guess these can't fail when you build on top of proven platforms) I say BIG DEAL! Where is the real innovation? Where is the machine that makes us go, "WOW"? If they are planning a march release, then I guess they haven't learned from other companies, which released machines in the spring time. I say it time and time again, release in September. And what about the Deus? My father's theory was they were waiting to see what is coming out. Disappointments all around.

 

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[cudamark]

The wireless technology will expand soon. It's already in some machines (i.e. XP Deus). I'm not sure having it be able to talk to your phone or tablet is much of a benefit though. Are you really going to carry a tablet with you detecting? Even being able to link with your phone....what is it going to tell you that the detector display won't?

 

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[Goldfleks]

This is just one example:

Detector talks to phone, phone uploads data to the internet, I can then access the date from phone/tablet/PC anytime. That data is all simply the conductivity of the metal in the ground and the VDI or TargetID, whatever you want to call it.

Let's take the GPS coordinates of targets for example.

As I'm running my coil over the ground, in a specific area of the park/beach/whatever. I'm getting lots of pull tabs. Lets assign them an ID# of 20.00. As I'm sweeping this area, my coil is detecting, and automatically locating targets and assigning GPS coordinates to go along with the ID#. Now I can notch out ID# 20 while I'm working an area so that I'm not constantly wasting my time digging pull tabs, and focus on higher priority targets. So far nothing new here right?

While I'm detecting, I have passively collected data on this site of every conductive metal that my coil passed over. Later that night I can go back and analyze that data on my Phone/Tablet/PC. I can pull up ID#20 and see everything that pinged in that conductivity range. Let's say there were 30 targets in the area that had ID#20. I can then expand that and look closer.

15 targets had ID# 20.00
12 targets had ID# 20.01
02 targets had ID# 20.02
01 targets had ID# 20.05

Now looking at that data I can decide if it's worth going back and digging the 3 targets that were unique from the other targets in the 20's. ID# 20.00 is obviously a tab in this scenario, as there were 20 other identical signals. ID# 20.01 is probably also another tab from another MFGR. ID# 20.02 and ID# 20.05 might also just be more tabs, maybe they are bent tabs. Or maybe 20.05 is a gold ring that was lost at the party.

Either way, I now have the opportunity to go back to that location and dig targets 20.02 and 20.05. Maybe I just dig 3 more tabs. Maybe it's something special. Maybe it's not. But at least this way I can work a site focusing on the good signals using my eyes and ears at the time I'm there. And then I can use my brain later when I'm at home to further analyze the location to see if it's worth returning too. Maybe my Phone App automatically tracks unique signals once they pass a certain threshold and I get a notification on my phone that out of 200 targets with ID#20 4 of them are unique enough to warrant further investigation before I leave the site and I can go back and dig targets #20.05 and #20.02 before I even leave the site.

I'm just basically expanding on the "software" opportunities that are available when we start collecting and analyzing the data that we ae ALREADY collecting every time we pass our coil over a target. Only currently that data isn't being stored, and it's not being analyzed, so it's a lost opportunity.

How about when you're gold prospecting and you have a GPS coordinate of every gold target you have dug. Wouldn't it be nice to have a GPS map of every crevice that produced gold on a river so each season you could return and detect KNOWN gold bearing crevices for new deposits? Sure you can try to remember those cracks after the flood season re-arranges everything. But the bedrock cracks/GPS coordinates don't change that easily.

I could go on, but there are tons of useful ways to turn the data that we are already producing into ways to more efficiently work an area. It's 2016. Every device we own should be taking advantage of hardware and software apps on our smart phones to make us more efficient in the field. I've only been detecting for a little over a month and I'm already feeling the technology gap in the hobby compared to the technology that I'm USED to using on an everyday basis.

Edit: This doesn't even go into the crowd sourcing opportunities that become possible once thousands of detectors are uploading information on the targets they are scanning in the ground.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Goldfleks, wow, dizzy-ing post. You are obviously of the generation that's less than 30 or 35 years old, haha.

But coming from the generation that saw TID introduced, I can tell you that your musings will not do that much good. All the example scenarios of notching that you describe, will equally net a result of nothing more than infinite variables of aluminum vs gold. "Notching" is nothing new. Whether done on the spot, or later at the comfort of your computer console.

Wake me up when they invent a machine that can actually tell the difference between gold and aluminum.

 

[Goldfleks]

Goldfleks, wow, dizzy-ing post. You are obviously of the generation that's less than 30 or 35 years old, haha.

But coming from the generation that saw TID introduced, I can tell you that your musings will not do that much good. All the example scenarios of notching that you describe, will equally net a result of nothing more than infinite variables of aluminum vs gold. "Notching" is nothing new. Whether done on the spot, or later at the comfort of your computer console.

Wake me up when they invent a machine that can actually tell the difference between gold and aluminum.

Hah, I'm 35. I just enjoy technology.

And while I agree that notching is nothing new, it's about bringing detectors up to speed with current day tech. Crowd sourced data is a major part of being able to eventually tell the difference between gold and aluminum.

A few tech's in a lab can only test so many variables. Thousands of detectorists can test millions. Maybe there is a pattern in the data.

 

[Vern2]

My my my....all this talk. Our family didn't get our first indoor toilet until I was 13, and then pa wouldn't let his six boys use it because we were too stupid. However, we still found our way to the outhouse, and the Sears catalog.

My point is, buy yourself a Tesoro DeLeon and experience satisfaction and happiness.
Just like I did when I joined the Army and they had indoor latrines.☺����

Continue on with your conversation, gentlemen.

 

[Snap on Man]

I am 65 and I can remember what the world was like before technology. I could hand write the customers receipt, count back the correct change and thank them for shopping with me. I could go on and on with this. I now drive a school bus and my wife is a monitor on this bus. Some of the questions these students ask us are unbelievable. The other morning a student ask my wife why there were two suns. He did not know the difference between the sun and the moon. You can think technology for this.

 

[Snap on Man]

I am 65 and I can remember what the world was like before technology. I could hand write the customers receipt, count back the correct change and thank them for shopping with me. I could go on and on with this. I now drive a school bus and my wife is a monitor on this bus. Some of the questions these students ask us are unbelievable. The other morning a student ask my wife why there were two suns. He did not know the difference between the sun and the moon. You can think technology for this.

 

[jadocs]

My my my....all this talk. Our family didn't get our first indoor toilet until I was 13, and then pa wouldn't let his six boys use it because we were too stupid. However, we still found our way to the outhouse, and the Sears catalog.

My point is, buy yourself a Tesoro DeLeon and experience satisfaction and happiness.
Just like I did when I joined the Army and they had indoor latrines.☺����

Continue on with your conversation, gentlemen.

Vern you remind me of someone I served with. Were you a 11 bang bang?

 

[LoyalistDigger]

In 2016 for $250 I should be getting Bluetooth headphones standard on all models (with the option to hard wire), some form of integration with my phone/tablet/PC that tracks finds with GPS coordinates standard on a base level "Garrett 450" (to go with the 5-year cycle). Waterproof to 10' STANDARD, so if I drop it in the creek/beach/spill a drink it's not ruined. LED Flashlight and backlit LED Screen. It really feels like there is ZERO reason to buy one of these newer entry level detectors when I can scoop up a gently used MXT for $300 off Craigslist and it has the same features as the 350 plus extra coils, plus additional modes of opperation and also feels well built and made to last.

You raise some very valid points.

After I read your post and while drinking my coffee, I picked up my phone and played around in the apps and settings for a bit. This phone will connect to my vehicle's audio system via Bluetooth, has GPS that can track my movement to Google maps while connecting to the Internet almost anywhere and syncs with my desktop and tablet when I get home. At the push of a button, I can get all the software updates I need or they will automatically be installed at a time of my choosing. It also has a handy little flashlight (or 'torch') option as well as a "lit screen". And let's not forget the camera which takes lots of surprisingly nice photos and videos. I can also phone a buddy and text him pics of my finds in real time.

And I can play some games on it when I want to kick back a bit.

OK...so it's not waterproof but for eight and half bucks, I can get a waterproof case from Walmart.

This phone is a low end Samsung J1 that I bought at Best Buy for $65.00. I think it might simply be a matter of time before some offshore manufacturer picks up on the current shortcomings.

EDIT: By the way, I'm almost 60 and find technology fascinating.

 

[Vern2]

Vern you remind me of someone I served with. Were you a 11 bang bang?

11 bang bang? Nope, never heard the term. I'm thinking this was a term used in Vietnam. Maybe?
West Germany 31 months out of 36.

 

[Vern2]

He guys, sorry if I got the subject matter off track. Please continue, it's all very interesting what you have to say.

 

[jadocs]

11 bang bang? Nope, never heard the term. I'm thinking this was a term used in Vietnam. Maybe?
West Germany 31 months out of 36.

Oh ok. No the 11 bang bang was in reference to 11B MOS.

 

[cudamark]

The CTX can already track where you've been, but, I guess I'm just too old school. If I get an "iffy" target, I just dig it at the time I hear/see it. If it's a good enough site, I'll come back for more until I run out of them. It's just not a feature I would be willing to spend another gazillion dollars for.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

Im all for advancements in technology, when they actually work as intended. As of today, I don't care what detector you swing, if you're not digging it all you're not getting it all. Sorry.

 

[Carl-NC]

15 targets had ID# 20.00
12 targets had ID# 20.01
02 targets had ID# 20.02
01 targets had ID# 20.05

20.00 might be a pull tab lying flat, 4" deep.
20.01 might be the same pull tab lying at a 2° incline, 4" deep.
20.02 might be the same pull tab lying at a 2° incline, 4.06" deep.
20.05 might be the same pull tab lying flat, with the beaver tail twisted 3°.

Target IDs have little meaning below a degree of resolution. Any given target can vary a degree or more depending on depth, angle, soil condition, sweep speed, etc. Plus, there is so much variety even in just pull tabs that they can easily span an ID range of 10-30 degrees. Jewelry can span an even wider range, and the ranges overlap.

Here's an exercise: collect a wide variety of pull tabs, both beaver tail & square tabs. Flat, curled, with & without the tail, etc. See how much ID variation they give.

 

[oldkoot]

This is just one example:

Detector talks to phone, phone uploads data to the internet, I can then access the date from phone/tablet/PC anytime. That data is all simply the conductivity of the metal in the ground and the VDI or TargetID, whatever you want to call it.

Let's take the GPS coordinates of targets for example.

As I'm running my coil over the ground, in a specific area of the park/beach/whatever. I'm getting lots of pull tabs. Lets assign them an ID# of 20.00. As I'm sweeping this area, my coil is detecting, and automatically locating targets and assigning GPS coordinates to go along with the ID#. Now I can notch out ID# 20 while I'm working an area so that I'm not constantly wasting my time digging pull tabs, and focus on higher priority targets. So far nothing new here right?

While I'm detecting, I have passively collected data on this site of every conductive metal that my coil passed over. Later that night I can go back and analyze that data on my Phone/Tablet/PC. I can pull up ID#20 and see everything that pinged in that conductivity range. Let's say there were 30 targets in the area that had ID#20. I can then expand that and look closer.

15 targets had ID# 20.00
12 targets had ID# 20.01
02 targets had ID# 20.02
01 targets had ID# 20.05

Now looking at that data I can decide if it's worth going back and digging the 3 targets that were unique from the other targets in the 20's. ID# 20.00 is obviously a tab in this scenario, as there were 20 other identical signals. ID# 20.01 is probably also another tab from another MFGR. ID# 20.02 and ID# 20.05 might also just be more tabs, maybe they are bent tabs. Or maybe 20.05 is a gold ring that was lost at the party.

Either way, I now have the opportunity to go back to that location and dig targets 20.02 and 20.05. Maybe I just dig 3 more tabs. Maybe it's something special. Maybe it's not. But at least this way I can work a site focusing on the good signals using my eyes and ears at the time I'm there. And then I can use my brain later when I'm at home to further analyze the location to see if it's worth returning too. Maybe my Phone App automatically tracks unique signals once they pass a certain threshold and I get a notification on my phone that out of 200 targets with ID#20 4 of them are unique enough to warrant further investigation before I leave the site and I can go back and dig targets #20.05 and #20.02 before I even leave the site.

I'm just basically expanding on the "software" opportunities that are available when we start collecting and analyzing the data that we ae ALREADY collecting every time we pass our coil over a target. Only currently that data isn't being stored, and it's not being analyzed, so it's a lost opportunity.

How about when you're gold prospecting and you have a GPS coordinate of every gold target you have dug. Wouldn't it be nice to have a GPS map of every crevice that produced gold on a river so each season you could return and detect KNOWN gold bearing crevices for new deposits? Sure you can try to remember those cracks after the flood season re-arranges everything. But the bedrock cracks/GPS coordinates don't change that easily.

I could go on, but there are tons of useful ways to turn the data that we are already producing into ways to more efficiently work an area. It's 2016. Every device we own should be taking advantage of hardware and software apps on our smart phones to make us more efficient in the field. I've only been detecting for a little over a month and I'm already feeling the technology gap in the hobby compared to the technology that I'm USED to using on an everyday basis.

Edit: This doesn't even go into the crowd sourcing opportunities that become possible once thousands of detectors are uploading information on the targets they are scanning in the ground.

Yeah this is just what I want another gadget that can track every move I make and alert the gov. exactly where I am and where I have been no thanks.

Technology is going to be the death of all of us the way things are going I can actually in vision the movie terminator happening

 

[Tom_in_CA]

20.00 might be a pull tab lying flat, 4" deep.
20.01 might be the same pull tab lying at a 2° incline, 4" deep.
20.02 might be the same pull tab lying at a 2° incline, 4.06" deep.
20.05 might be the same pull tab lying flat, with the beaver tail twisted 3°.

Target IDs have little meaning below a degree of resolution. Any given target can vary a degree or more depending on depth, angle, soil condition, sweep speed, etc. Plus, there is so much variety even in just pull tabs that they can easily span an ID range of 10-30 degrees. Jewelry can span an even wider range, and the ranges overlap.

Here's an exercise: collect a wide variety of pull tabs, both beaver tail & square tabs. Flat, curled, with & without the tail, etc. See how much ID variation they give.

Carl NC, you are a much respected voice on md'ing forums. For things like detector technology, and their practical application. And I would very much agree with your above statments regarding gold vs aluminum.

So with that said, how do you respond to those who would say they can use a 2-filter machine (various 2 filter tesoros on the market), and dial the disc. back and forth, raise and lower the coil listening for breaking/chatter points. And by doing so, claim to knock out most junk, and hone in on gold better ?

I have YET to see anyone , who makes such a claim, go into a junky park and do any better than random odds. Or anything that's not simply notching (commonly recurring types tabs and so forth).

Your thoughts ?

 

[dave_e]

Carl NC, you are a much respected voice on md'ing forums. For things like detector technology, and their practical application. And I would very much agree with your above statments regarding gold vs aluminum.

So with that said, how do you respond to those who would say they can use a 2-filter machine (various 2 filter tesoros on the market), and dial the disc. back and forth, raise and lower the coil listening for breaking/chatter points. And by doing so, claim to knock out most junk, and hone in on gold better ?

I have YET to see anyone , who makes such a claim, go into a junky park and do any better than random odds. Or anything that's not simply notching (commonly recurring types tabs and so forth).

Your thoughts ?

Huge +1

 

[b3y0nd3r]

It is 2017 and metal detectors are still using 1970's tech. there are many different technologies out there can be applied to change the design and functionality of a detector. The bottom line is saving money, I understand that, but there would be many applications for a metal detector that can get a bead of what is in the ground.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

It is 2017 and metal detectors are still using 1970's tech. there are many different technologies out there can be applied to change the design and functionality of a detector. The bottom line is saving money, I understand that, but there would be many applications for a metal detector that can get a bead of what is in the ground.

I disagree. The "ground" that a detector must see-through, is the same ground that it was in the 1970s, as the ground is today.

There's no conspiracy of money-savings by manufacturers, or anything like that. REST ASSURED that if any of them could "make a better mousetrap" (even if it meant investing $$ for R&D), they MOST ASSUREDLY would.

All the "different technologies" that you speak of (1970s versus to-the-present) are merely a function of faster and smaller. And none of that changes the laws of physics, which is the medium through-which the signal must bounce: Solid soil. So the information coming back to the coil will always be limited on how much info. it contains. And no amount of further analyzing it (with "faster and smaller") will find information that simply isn't there.

Wake me up with entirely new technology comes along. Not just whistles and bells and faster and smaller of technology we currently have. Because that has reached the laws of physics.