What should the Laginas do next?

[pepperj]

I ask these past few questions on a few posts because it just seems illogical to debate this and that and the what now without understanding if any of it is warranted...?

If you could just get 10 logical folks at a table and start from the beginning and leave authors, treasure hunters, reporters and hearsay out of it I bet a single conclusion would come forth. But that would ruin everything about Oak Island.

What has actually ever been found supporting evidence that a big treasure awaits some finder?

And I'm NOT talking about old relics found all over proving folks lived there. Or, proof sailing ships arrived at island. Got it..! I'd bet that's true all up and down that coastal area. After all that digging with filled in holes.... What was really actually EVER found...?

Great question that you asked.
"What was really actually Ever found...?"

My guess: A lot of folks that sit glued to an idiot box week after week, year after year, thinking about all the endless fictional treasures.
The advertisers are loving it, so are the cast members.

 

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[gjb]

The people who found the Money Pit jumped to the conclusion that there was potentially a treasure there because that’s the sort of thing people believed then. This is going back some 230 years, so the origins are even earlier than that.

Going back further, before there were banks, people did bury valuables - and this is attested to by historical documents and the fact that archaeologists and detectorists still find hoards.

So, it shouldn’t be surprising that somebody might have buried a treasure at a truly remote spot, such as Oak Island at the time, and that such is what the finders believed possible - if not likely.

The apparent scale of the works, as later reported, would suggest major engineering works which implies planning and organisation. This would not have been digging a hasty hole and dropping a treasure into it. Hence, military or governments may have been involved.

As the Money Pit seems highly unlikely to be the place of deposit (to me and many others) then, if there's a treasure, it would more than likely be somewhere else. So, the question is whether there’s evidence of ‘where’, because if there’s evidence, or indications, of ‘where’ then there’s evidence of a deposit if not a treasure.

However, people declare that there’s no evidence of ‘where’ without even having looked for it. My research, conducted over 20 years and across two continents, suggests that there is evidence of ‘where’ which means that there is evidence of a deposit or planned deposit.

So, the finders may well have jumped to the right conclusion for the wrong reasons.

Let’s not forget that this could have happened some 300 or more years ago and that they didn’t think like us then about many things. So, let’s not judge or assess them and their actions by our standards and our thinking.

“The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.” L.P. Hartley

 

[bigscoop]

There's a reason why they call them "treasure tales" or "tales of lost treasure."

 

[Limitool]

There's a reason why they call them "treasure tales" or "tales of lost treasure."

I guess...? Some folks just want to believe "it's possible" but without a single clue.... They just have the belief it's possible. No one is going to doubt / argue that. But it's as silly as a dog chasing its tail and wondering why they didn't get anywhere.

I'm retired and kind of bored so I think I'll start a story and back it up with some "reporting" and then demonstrate my belief by acting on it...! Here we go.... I heard there was a large shipment of gold coins stolen near Centerville, TN. They were in a iron clad lock-box of the day. This happened during the Civil War. As the robbers were trying to get away and crossing the Duck River in Centerville they realized they were trapped and threw the iron clad lock-box into the Duck River off the old bridge. It was reported that the gold was never recovered. Since I did my research I'm now magnet fishing off the bridge with my 500 lb rated magnet and a strong nylon rope. I've claimed all rights for 100 yds of the public river on both sides of the bridge. I've signed a NDA with the History Channel so that's all I can share. Stay tuned for..... "I lie and YOU swear to it" coming soon to YOU...! (PS... I need investors)

Anybody wanna bring a cooler full of cold beer and magnet fish off the Duck River bridge in Centerville, TN. with me? Camera's will be rolling so dress nice, hair nicely done and they promise to bleep out all foul language (like Tony Beets on Gold Rush). But after 8 seasons we'll have to put a little spin on it. We'll figure out something between all of us.....

 

[SeabeeRon]

I guess...? Some folks just want to believe "it's possible" but without a single clue.... They just have the belief it's possible. No one is going to doubt / argue that. But it's as silly as a dog chasing its tail and wondering why they didn't get anywhere.

I'm retired and kind of bored so I think I'll start a story and back it up with some "reporting" and then demonstrate my belief by acting on it...! Here we go.... I heard there was a large shipment of gold coins stolen near Centerville, TN. They were in a iron clad lock-box of the day. This happened during the Civil War. As the robbers were trying to get away and crossing the Duck River in Centerville they realized they were trapped and threw the iron clad lock-box into the Duck River off the old bridge. It was reported that the gold was never recovered. Since I did my research I'm now magnet fishing off the bridge with my 500 lb rated magnet and a strong nylon rope. I've claimed all rights for 100 yds of the public river on both sides of the bridge. I've signed a NDA with the History Channel so that's all I can share. Stay tuned for..... "I lie and YOU swear to it" coming soon to YOU...! (PS... I need investors)

Anybody wanna bring a cooler full of cold beer and magnet fish off the Duck River bridge in Centerville, TN. with me? Camera's will be rolling so dress nice, hair nicely done and they promise to bleep out all foul language (like Tony Beets on Gold Rush). But after 8 seasons we'll have to put a little spin on it. We'll figure out something between all of us.....

This "tale" sounds familiar, but it was in Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

 

[Limitool]

This "tale" sounds familiar, but it was in Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

Listen Mister SeabeeRon.... This is NOT a "tale" I read some reports and interviewed some relatives who said their Great Great Grandfather said it happened. And one even heard it hit the water. I have to watch what I share because of my NDA with the History Channel. But you may be onto something as I can see a connection possibly with Bucks County, PA....? Good thinking... you better get in on the new ground breaking adventure of.... "I lie and you swear to it" while the getting is good. Please bring own magnet and beer(none provided). (no longer need investors as I was flooded with offers!)

 

[Armchair detective]

No there wasn’t. The “oak platforms” were just another tall tale (similar to the fake 90 foot stone) used to attract investors in an attempt to recoup money lost in pursuing a fairy tale.

So... A conspiracy.
How many people were involved here?
All those people who looked in the hole, worked on the hole and DIDN'T SEE any platforms yet agreed to spread the story
that they existed? Did the people who were to be fleeced not do due diligence, come out and looked in the hole and also DID NOT SEE platforms?

Let's see. Say 100 were in on the scam.
They all had 0 percent integrity to be able to put it to the investors, yet 100 percent integrity to keep their mouths shut when going into the occasional tavern.

And not one had a guilty conscience.

There is no way to be certain of course, but if you go by probabilities, can't see this happened.

 

[Limitool]

So... A conspiracy.
How many people were involved here?
All those people who looked in the hole, worked on the hole and DIDN'T SEE any platforms yet agreed to spread the story
that they existed? Did the people who were to be fleeced not do due diligence, come out and looked in the hole and also DID NOT SEE platforms?

Let's see. Say 100 were in on the scam.
They all had 0 percent integrity to be able to put it to the investors, yet 100 percent integrity to keep their mouths shut when going into the occasional tavern.

And not one had a guilty conscience.

There is no way to be certain of course, but if you go by probabilities, can't see this happened.

I don't believe there was any designed conspiracy by anyone. Whoever said "many people" looked in the hole or even worked on it. And yes I highly doubt there were any people who looked into the hole that were "fleeced" because all platforms (if ever there) were removed to dig a deep hole. Why would any investor look into a deep hole to see some wood. And why in the hell would you need an investor for. Hell this was back in 1795-1805. That story was repeated probably from father to son until "someone" recorded it in writing and then "suddenly" it must be true. Nobody had to have integrity or a guilty conscience because they never saw anything like that nor repeated it because "they" didn't see it. Investors came along long after "reporters", authors and treasure seekers hyped the story and swore to what has been written.

What proof was/has EVER shown outside of hearsay that ANY wooden platforms were EVER found?

And Robert's Dunfield's 100 ft wide X 140 ft deep hole dug in 1965 should have killed this story. But still it survives. The whole 100 ft. deep buried treasure just seems so stupid on it's own face.

 

[Oregon Viking]

I guess...? Some folks just want to believe "it's possible" but without a single clue.... They just have the belief it's possible. No one is going to doubt / argue that. But it's as silly as a dog chasing its tail and wondering why they didn't get anywhere.

I'm retired and kind of bored so I think I'll start a story and back it up with some "reporting" and then demonstrate my belief by acting on it...! Here we go.... I heard there was a large shipment of gold coins stolen near Centerville, TN. They were in a iron clad lock-box of the day. This happened during the Civil War. As the robbers were trying to get away and crossing the Duck River in Centerville they realized they were trapped and threw the iron clad lock-box into the Duck River off the old bridge. It was reported that the gold was never recovered. Since I did my research I'm now magnet fishing off the bridge with my 500 lb rated magnet and a strong nylon rope. I've claimed all rights for 100 yds of the public river on both sides of the bridge. I've signed a NDA with the History Channel so that's all I can share. Stay tuned for..... "I lie and YOU swear to it" coming soon to YOU...! (PS... I need investors)

Anybody wanna bring a cooler full of cold beer and magnet fish off the Duck River bridge in Centerville, TN. with me? Camera's will be rolling so dress nice, hair nicely done and they promise to bleep out all foul language (like Tony Beets on Gold Rush). But after 8 seasons we'll have to put a little spin on it. We'll figure out something between all of us.....

Magnet fishing.... very 20th century. Com'on Brad ! Underwater drone!

 

[Limitool]

Magnet fishing.... very 20th century. Com'on Brad ! Underwater drone!

View attachment 2156042

Would you like in on the ground floor of "I lie and you swear to it"? Just sign the NDA with the History Channel and your in. Only 50 openings left....!!!!! I'm sure with your drone we'll find this elusive treasure within 9 seasons...!!!!! (Please folks... all investors have been acquired so stop asking!)

 

[gjb]

Hell this was back in 1795-1805. That story was repeated probably from father to son until "someone" recorded it in writing and then "suddenly" it must be true.

A little research would identify the likely manner in which the narrative eventually got into print. It wasn't handed down from father to son. It's found written down in newspapers in the 1860s at much the time that the Oak Island Association was operating (1863-65).

You'll find that a certain Adams A. Tupper was involved at that time who had also been involved with previous investors, the Truro Company of 1848-50. That company had drawn on the experiences of two of the original discoverers, Anthony Vaughan and John Smith.

Tupper went on to invest in the Oak Island Treasure Company of 1893-99 and did actually set down the history of operations in that company's prospectus of 1894.

Thus, if the report of the discovery and of the platforms is a fabrication then Smith and Vaughan, who were also present during the operations of 1804-5, would be likely culprits.

So, the account wasn't 'handed down' it was communicated directly, as it were, straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[bigscoop]

A little research would identify the likely manner in which the narrative eventually got into print. It wasn't handed down from father to son. It's found written down in newspapers in the 1860s at much the time that the Oak Island Association was operating (1863-65).

You'll find that a certain Adams A. Tupper was involved at that time who had also been involved with previous investors, the Truro Company of 1848-50. That company had drawn on the experiences of two of the original discoverers, Anthony Vaughan and John Smith.

Tupper went on to invest in the Oak Island Treasure Company of 1893-99 and did actually set down the history of operations in that company's prospectus of 1894.

Thus, if the report of the discovery and of the platforms is a fabrication then Smith and Vaughan, who were also present during the operations of 1804-5, would be likely culprits.

So, the account wasn't 'handed down' it was communicated directly, as it were, straight from the horse's mouth.

The problem here is that there was never any evidence that this hole in the ground ever had anything to do with a treasure, this just being the product of man's wild imagination in his pursuit of fame and fortune.

But look, the fantasy was eventually very successfully sold to the public and so in the end, well, there's your treasure.

 

[Armchair detective]

I just realized there is something that needs to be done. What is the story on that metal plate at 200 ft in the MP?

 

[BlackLine]

What should the Laginas do next... I think it would be good to drill some holes in the yellow marked area to rule out an inclined access to the Money Pit.

Reason:
We assume that the treasure lies 33 meters underground. Due to the groundwater level, in my opinion the builders could never have built a vertical shaft. This means that a horizontal access was dug 33 meters deep into the earth. According to ChatGPT, livestock (oxen, horses) could have been used with a maximum incline of 12-15 percent. We know that wood was found on the northern side of the garden shaft, which in my opinion served as a stable base for the animals, which is why there are no side walls. Looking at the east (Templars), the access point could be determined according to the triangle calculation at angles of 12 and 15 degrees. When dismantling the vertical shaft, the flood tunnels and the original vertical shaft could easily have been created. I suspect that the treasure was loaded at the swamp, then taken down to the Money Pit and, due to the lack of space at depth, the animals were simply led straight ahead towards Smith Cove and then back onto the ships.
If the chamber was planned as a displacement chamber (which would make much more sense), then the horizontal path would have been planned correspondingly deeper and thus the access points in the swamp and Smith Cove.
By drilling a test hole along the yellow line, if wood is found, one could calculate the height difference and the direction of the path.

 

[gjb]

The problem here is that there was never any evidence that this hole in the ground ever had anything to do with a treasure, this just being the product of man's wild imagination in his pursuit of fame and fortune.

But look, the fantasy was eventually very successfully sold to the public and so in the end, well, there's your treasure.

It would be more accurate to say that assessments of the sources to date have produced no evidence of treasure, which is not to say the evidence is not there or that there never was any. It’s just that past assessments were performed inadequately and with no attempt at objectivity.

Current assessments are therefore being made based on incomplete and flawed work undertaken previously. The evidence is there, though it takes a while to find, but blind prejudice by past assessors is preventing people in the present from seeing it for what it is.

What’s worse is that once people have decided that there’s no evidence (when such may exist) they’ll inevitably reject it because it conflicts with what they’ve decided is the answer. That’s the problem of deciding that you know the answer before the investigation has been completed.

The solution is to do the job properly, and fully, and thereby discover what's been missed and incorrectly dismissed. As observed, the evidence is there. You're just not seeing it because of past inadequacies.

 

[1wvhunter]

Maybe they should pack up and head to Utah with their digging equipment and help the People at Skin Walker Ranch dig and drill the Mesa to find the so-called dome shaped object that has stopped drillers into the Mesa up to this point. The Laginas could sink a caissone in the Mesa even though there is no water to keep out.

 

[bigscoop]

It would be more accurate to say that assessments of the sources to date have produced no evidence of treasure, which is not to say the evidence is not there or that there never was any. It’s just that past assessments were performed inadequately and with no attempt at objectivity.

Current assessments are therefore being made based on incomplete and flawed work undertaken previously. The evidence is there, though it takes a while to find, but blind prejudice by past assessors is preventing people in the present from seeing it for what it is.

What’s worse is that once people have decided that there’s no evidence (when such may exist) they’ll inevitably reject it because it conflicts with what they’ve decided is the answer. That’s the problem of deciding that you know the answer before the investigation has been completed.

The solution is to do the job properly, and fully, and thereby discover what's been missed and incorrectly dismissed. As observed, the evidence is there. You're just not seeing it because of past inadequacies.

No, not really. It's accurate to say that such evidences of treasure have ever existed. The very notion of there being some fantastical treasure on the island all being a 100% manufactured fabrication man's wild imagination.

 

[bigscoop]

I have a tract of ground with an odd shaped rock on it, a few strange looking manmade markings in the surface of the rock. "So therefore, those markings must be related to a fantastic hidden treasure of some kind that's been hidden somewhere on the property." Sounds silly, don't it.

Now try it with just a manmade hole instead of a rock. Same logic.......

 

[jeff of pa]

Maybe they should pack up and head to Utah with their digging equipment and help the People at Skin Walker Ranch dig and drill the Mesa to find the so-called dome shaped object that has stopped drillers into the Mesa up to this point. The Laginas could sink a caissone in the Mesa even though there is no water to keep out.

I Figure at Some Point Rick will Poke his Head out the Drill Hole
on the ranch & ask Where's the Treasure

 

[bigscoop]

I Figure at Some Point Rick will Poke his Head out the Drill Hole
on the ranch & ask Where's the Treasure

The Genuine Oak Island Treasure Pit Rock.

“Yes folks, now you can own a piece of treasure history. For just $$$ a pound we'll send you your very own Oak Island Treasure Pit Rock!”

You'd be surprised at just how many people would buy that worthless rock, and what they'd pay for it.

No treasure on Oak Island? You may want to rethink that............