Video 4 - The Peralta Stone Maps with Frank Augustine

[somehiker]

So the construction crew did find other maps? Is that documented?

That would be a real solid piece of evidence towards the certification of Travis's story.

The first time I was there many years ago I think it had a lot of grasses and was way harder to see any holes. We parked way back from the bridge towards the east and made our way west along the north side with a sweeping search pattern. We looked along the fence line first just like Travis said where he found the first Stone Map PH/HP.

Find the pottery and find the arrow heads I say.

The material that came out of that hole was taken away for some reason not enough there for a refill. It may be just what I said it was a disturbed grave dug up by Treasure Hunters and the Coffin removed for the value of the silver handles. That would explain the missing dirt and rock. Room for the Coffin.

May have been the stone map makers grave. He buried the maps as he was dying and left his legacy in the ground close to his own resting place.

I'm sure the other stone maps would have explained the mystery of the series with the key.

And I don't think the keystone was removed by the bridge construction. I think it may still lie beneath the wind blown dusts of another place and time.

The wind blown dusts of the Travis Twilight Zone.

Documented in the sense that it has been written about. Other very similar mentions as well....Tom K's mexican post hole digger for example...and the church bell which now hangs at the Arboretum, also written about by Tom. And a few rumors also mentioned re: other stones in various hands, which are said to be related to the stone maps.
I'd like to know if ANYONE has ever heard of skeletal remains having been excavated out there at the discovery site though.

 

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[Old]

Lynda,

On the south bank of QC, west of the southbound portion of rt 60, there is the remnant of a very old trail that cuts down the bank and starts crossing over the washes just as it reaches the bridges themselves. Although severely eroded by now, if you put yourself in the right place, you can see it. Perhaps Ryan can check this out next time he is out there and get a shot from the right perspective (looking down the trail, facing slightly northeast).

It is no accident that there is a site of interest at the spot where a trail crosses over a water source, as these were customarily places to strike camp in the wagon days.

As far as your assertion that this place would have been suicidal from a defensive standpoint, that depends on what era and what antagonist you are talking about.

Deducer,

My musings go to motive and methods of the creator of the stones. Not to who and how they were later "found". I can't give justice to any finder story until I'm comfortable with how they got there to begin with.

I'm sure, as you say, an old trail of some sort crosses at this area. But dating from when? and for what purpose? Was it a local ranch road? A path for driving the cattle to the rail head at Florence? It doesn't appear to have been a well used/well known cross country travel route. It doesn't appear on any territorial maps that I have found. I'm still looking and something may turn up to support that. Other roads in the area do show and thus my comments concerning the actual road from Florence and points south which is west of this area. I'm still in the fact gathering mode and am open to all possibilities.

As to the suicidal defensive standpoint. My answer would be all eras and all antagonist. I don't think the who and why changes whether or not its a good or bad defensive location. The question for me is ""can you conceal your presents and your actions (digging burial sites for valuable maps) at this location" and would it be your best candidate in the area to further your objective and keep your scalp? My thoughts so far are no. Other sites would fit that goal much better.

Hal, your question of where I'm going with this is a fair one. Unfortunately, I don't have a clear theory. Still in the gathering mode. One possibility that is now high on my radar is "all" the find stories are bogus and the stones were recovered in Mexico, Texas, or Santa Fe and brought here. No factual data on this, just adding it to my possibilities.

 

[Azquester]

Hal,

I still have more from that same day. It's from the wrong bridge at the wrong site. I never posted it because it was not the right area. After talking with Wayne I may stick it up just to show the rock piles. All those Videos are from one afternoon taping on the fly with the threat of a parking ticket for being there.

I work better as the pressure gets me moving!

You can see my "Limp" in the videos and hear my allergies stuffing my nose up.

It makes me feel like "Chester" on Gunsmoke.

Still haven't totally healed my ripped up foot.

Almost there,

I just need a pair of stabilizer boots for the camera next time and some nasal spray for those dust mites!

It was also only about 105-106 degrees that day not that hot yet.

It gets worse in a few weeks.

Thanks for the kudos.

Your videos are getting better with each post Bill.
Nice job.

 

[Azquester]

The "Hidden" Rock Piles Wayne were under dense brush and not visible unless your on top of them. I think I have them in the next Video as I thought it was Queen Creek at the time so I filmed it. Very large rock piles as though someone buried something or dug something large. Hope it's not a grave site. I explain what I believe it may be in the video I made.

Was Mr Robert Garman the Uncle's name?

 

[Azquester]

Wire Cutters & Shovel

This was Sunday same area near Queen Creek just west of Florence Junction.

Only this was the wrong Bridge that has mounting evidence of activity by Travis Tumlinson.
The reason I say this was while editing this video (If you call it that raw footage in a hurry for posting purposes showing what Frank and Ryan have discovered) I picked up pair of old wire cutters and saw laying on the ground in the back ground of the video during that shot a rotted handle from an old shovel!

I now have a hub cap from back then, Wire Cutters, an Old Shovel and in the next Video I'm going to show a large red sand stone rock big enough to make a Stone Map! Could Travis have found the large red sand stone rocks here and carved them?

You decide in my next clip after this one.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

As I stated before I have never been to this side of the Superstition Range and would ask is there direct route, road, path or whatever out of the range on this side that would allow someone to safely and expeditiously get to where the maps were allegedly buried and later found.

 

[Garry]

I wanted to revisit one of the stories regarding the discovery of the stone maps. “Old” (Lynda) called our attention to the story of a highway crew uncovering the stone maps during some roadwork. Lynda took the information from a Bernice McGee magazine article and Somehiker posted relevant images of the article.

The provenance of this particular story doesn’t involve Travis Tumlinson discovering the carvings or does it? To say the least it is confusing to try and tie this story to Travis.

Tracing the provenance of a story, I always ask the question, how did the story reach our ears or eyes?

Since Bernice McGee was the author of the article we might begin from there and try to work our way back.

We have reams of correspondence (the letters are available online) generated by Bernice with various people associated with the stone map story. A problem that sometimes arises is that we don’t have the letters that Bernice wrote.

Bernice wrote 3 articles that were published in various True West Publications (Frontier Times, Old West and True West) beginning in 1964 and ending in 1973.

She collected much of her information through conversations and correspondence with the people in and around the Superstitions. The correspondence takes place over about 13 years (1962 to 1974).

“Are the Peralta Stone Maps a Hoax?” (Published in 1973) (This article along with the other two written by Bernice is also available online and part of the Bernice McGee Collection.)

Returning to the article “Are the Peralta Stone Maps a Hoax?” in which the highway construction crew uncover the maps, we pick up the story there.

While “Doc” Rosecrans is mentioned in that portion of the article that recounts the story, it doesn't appear we can lay the "origin" of the story at his feet. In the preceding paragraph to the one below, Doc appears to be repeating the story that Travis’ discovered the stones, west of Florence Junction.

Bernice writes:

"Doc and we are still plagued by reports we heard long ago, before the Peralta maps were ever made public. At that time, friends who ranch the Superstitions had ask us to help identify several symbols recently found in the area. The pencil-drawn symbols had been copied from some maps that had been “turned up alongside a new lane of Highway being added to 80-60”. The maps were evidently uncovered when graders were working this newly divided highway. Reportedly they were found just east of Queen Creek Bridge, west of Florence Junction. Doc told us that the new strip of road for west bound traffic had already covered where the maps were found.

The penciled symbols meant nothing to us at the time. They were out of context, selected at random, and few in number. Later we recognized the same symbols as part of the Peralta Stone Maps. This report would still place the discovery site near the hill east of the bridge."

The first item; I would like to try and address is the time frame of this alleged discovery.

“turned up alongside a new lane of Highway being added to 80-60. The maps were evidently uncovered when graders were working this newly divided highway.”

This certainly matches the 1966 time frame for the completion of the twin bridges discussed previously. It also follows the narrative the road work for the divided highway portion had begun earlier and the new bridges were built as the last phase. This is also be supported by the newspaper clipping of the fatal auto accident in 1962. The widening of the road and the bridge approaches was apparently going on during this time period and the narrowing of the lanes to cross the single two lane bridge was a contributing factor to the accident.

Since this time frame doesn’t make any sense for the initial discovery of the stone maps,we may understand the passage;

“Doc and we are still plagued by reports we heard long ago, before the Peralta maps were ever made public.”

About the only way we can make this story work is that some additional artifacts were found, during highway work that were related to the original stone maps in the possession of Travis?

The second item; Who are the “friends that ranch in the Superstitions?”

Bernice got the story from Lucille and Floyd (Stoney) Stone who owned the Reavis Ranch.

From a letter Lucille wrote to Bernice on December 30, 1963;

“In fact there is a man who claims he has found a heart shaped red rock slide west of the Castle Dome (Usually name Sombrero Butte on old maps with the help of a two piece stone map dug up by bulldozers at Queen Creek while widening the highway. He was by and wanted to know about moving a bulldozer over the road to where he wants to build a road to this slide. He had an exact copy of this map (he said) on paper. It was chiseled in regular sandstone with red- sandstone heart inlay over one area of the map and within this heart was a blown up detail of land marks. I will include a couple of the marks from the maps to see if they mean anything.”

On the last page Lucille included a sketch of the dagger and a portion of the mission? symbol.

It appears that when Bernice did become aware of the Stone Maps from Mitchell, she revisited this correspondence and some of the notes on the letters can be attributed to Bernice.

The third item; Who is the “man” in Lucille’s letter?

If we read the letters exchanged between Bernice and (Doc Rosecrans and Lucille Stone), it become clear that the “man” is Paul J Berndt.

He was a partner of Doc Rosecrans and they were interested in the heart shape rock slide (I think Doc states it was a man made formation). Berndt was trying to get permission to bring a bulldozer in to build a road. In the inital letters Doc refers to the man as Oscar but Lucille Stone later Identifies him [Letter dated April 19, 1964] as Paul J.Berndt. Doc also mentions the name Berndt in one of his letters although he is still using the name Oscar. (Maybe a nickname for Paul?) [Letter date July 30. 1966]

Doc was also acquainted with Gene and Ralph Davis (Robert Tumlinson connection) who we learn of in Dr. Glover’s book. There is a photo of Doc and the brothers obtained by Dr. Glover from Gene Davis. Doc also mentions the Davis brothers in his correspondence naming Ralph.
Doc was aware of the stone maps through the Davis brothers and he must have seen them and tried to document at least some of the things that they contained. Since Doc and Berndt were partners, Berndt was surely aware of the maps also.

Berndt was probably trying to curry favor with the Stones and shared some things from the map.

My own take is that Berndt created the highway work story to gain traction with the Stones for his desire to search the red stone heart near Windy Pass. Berndt didn’t want to give too much away but he did need a story of how he came to have the information.

Anyone who has a desire to flesh out this story would do well to read the complete correspondence. Maybe they will come up with a different conclusion.

Did anyone make it all the way through?

Garry

 

[UncleMatt]

I read all that with great interest, and wonder what can be corroborated from the claims that stone maps were discovered by grading crews while widening Hwy 60.

 

[Azquester]

Great Story Garry!

Loved reading it!

What your about to see in this small video clip is the exact same stone the trail maps and heart stone were made from. But not just a corner piece of a would be map but a whole slab of stone made from the exact same material!

You literally could make a copy of the trails maps with this red sand stone!

The Video cuts off fairly quick isn't very long but it shows the stone on the ground and various types of sandstones are lying about. Even ones that you could make the HP Map from.




Please tell me what you think is it a smoking gun for the birth place of the stones? It sure has the raw materials and is in the same neighborhood as the other location.

Vegas Bob yes you can drive right up to these sites.

Right off 60.

I may be going back for the red sand stone rock. I'll pick up some of the other sandstone after I go look at the Peralta Priest Horse stone again for comparison.

 

[Hal Croves]

I read all that with great interest, and wonder what can be corroborated from the claims that stone maps were discovered by grading crews while widening Hwy 60.

The history of the development of Arizona's highways is worth looking into. It's like a funnel and eventually leads back to some familiar names. If you are interested, research Arizona Highways Magazine which, is a great publication.

I would be interested in reading your thoughts if, by chance, you do look into it.

 

[Old]

Garry,

I have not gone back to re-read all the McGee correspondence. Forgive me if I've misunderstood something.

My thoughts are there were multiple construction episodes concerning the lanes on "new" Route 60. This, I think, is the source for the variations in the date(s) of the bridge photo(s). Varying from 1952-1955-1966. I don't think we can assume with 100% accuracy the grading by the construction workers that "supposedly" uncovered stone carvings dates to 1966. I believe, as McGee states, that this find happened "long ago", at least as she states (I'm paraphrasing) before the stones were made public. Public to whom? Mitchell? The world?

I'm up to my eye brows in work right now so I don't have the time to fact check. A time line of when Tumlinson supposedly found the stones, when the Life magazine article was published and when the McGee correspondence occurred would be helpful. Drop in the R. Tumlinson/Garman letter date, and the date Mitchell acquired. Back drop in all the road construction dates (should be available from the ADOT) and we should have a good working document for speculation purposes.

 

[UncleMatt]

I think more effort should be focused on Tumlinson's surviving relatives as well. I'm almost 100% convinced he carved the stone maps, but more verification would be nice.

 

[roadrunner]

As I stated before I have never been to this side of the Superstition Range and would ask is there direct route, road, path or whatever out of the range on this side that would allow someone to safely and expeditiously get to where the maps were allegedly buried and later found.

Whitlow canyon, to Whiskey canyon I believe, then to Labarge.
Once at Labarge go either East or West.
Pippin who used to post here could drive his station wagon from the now Hewitt station road, up Hewitt canyon,past Iron mountain all the way to Reavis apple orchard, or his farm.
Now closed off and over grown by the NFS.
If this is what you mean.
Elephant butte canyon now past Buzzards roost and the milk ranch also. Which would go to Coffee canyon, and Randolf.

 

[Hal Croves]

Whitlow canyon, to Whiskey canyon I believe, then to Labarge.
Once at Labarge go either East or West.
Pippin who used to post here could drive his station wagon from the now Hewitt station road, up Hewitt canyon,past Iron mountain all the way to Reavis apple orchard, or his farm.
Now closed off and over grown by the NFS.
If this is what you mean.
Elephant butte canyon now past Buzzards roost and the milk ranch also. Which would go to Coffee canyon, and Randolf.

Great post roadrunner.

 

[deducer]

My musings go to motive and methods of the creator of the stones. Not to who and how they were later "found". I can't give justice to any finder story until I'm comfortable with how they got there to begin with.

I'm sure, as you say, an old trail of some sort crosses at this area. But dating from when? and for what purpose? Was it a local ranch road? A path for driving the cattle to the rail head at Florence? It doesn't appear to have been a well used/well known cross country travel route. It doesn't appear on any territorial maps that I have found. I'm still looking and something may turn up to support that. Other roads in the area do show and thus my comments concerning the actual road from Florence and points south which is west of this area. I'm still in the fact gathering mode and am open to all possibilities.

There are many, many trails out there that don't exist on maps, for a variety of reasons. And this one requires no raison d'etre, other than to exist for itself. Its size, width, and degree of incline suggests that wagons were the primary users. Doubt that cattle-driving creates any sort of path in that they were not only seasonal, but were spread over great space.

When considering motive and methods, and especially considering that nearly all evidence is hearsay, this then necessitates a holistic approach that omits nothing from the big picture and this includes the later discoverers, Tumlinsons, et al, because if you look close enough, you will see that the motivations of the later discoverers is in itself a big clue as to the identity and motives of the creators.

As to the suicidal defensive standpoint. My answer would be all eras and all antagonist. I don't think the who and why changes whether or not its a good or bad defensive location. The question for me is ""can you conceal your presents and your actions (digging burial sites for valuable maps) at this location" and would it be your best candidate in the area to further your objective and keep your scalp? My thoughts so far are no. Other sites would fit that goal much better.

The area wasn't always overrun by Apaches, so it is not true that all eras apply. Although the point in history in which the maps were buried did represent a significant shift in that philosophy.

 

[Old]

The area wasn't always overrun by Apaches, so it is not true that all eras apply. Although the point in history in which the maps were buried did represent a significant shift in that philosophy.

My thoughts are, its a bad defensive position generally and especially for a covert activity. Works for hostile Indians, bushwhackers, modern era marauders, even nosey neighbors. The newer the era the better the equipment to view one's activity. If the objective is to secretly bury maps its logical you would want to do that as concealed from view as possible. Is it not true that you can be viewed for miles at this spot? If you spend hours digging a hole and burying objects its logical that anyone viewing that activity will wait for you to leave and immediately go dig up the objects if for nothing more than curiosity. Assuming they don't overpower you and kill you in the process as would have been likely in the early 1800s.

Just my thoughts, but if the objective is to hid something one would pick a concealed spot out of view.

My comments aren't to cut off discussion. Quite the contrary. I'd like to be convinced this spot has some redeeming feature that makes it the logical spot to bury the maps that would have insured their concealment and provided easily recognizable landmarks for others to follow and recover the relics. I'm just not seeing it..........yet.

 

[Garry]

Garry,

I have not gone back to re-read all the McGee correspondence. Forgive me if I've misunderstood something.

My thoughts are there were multiple construction episodes concerning the lanes on "new" Route 60. This, I think, is the source for the variations in the date(s) of the bridge photo(s). Varying from 1952-1955-1966. I don't think we can assume with 100% accuracy the grading by the construction workers that "supposedly" uncovered stone carvings dates to 1966. I believe, as McGee states, that this find happened "long ago", at least as she states (I'm paraphrasing) before the stones were made public. Public to whom? Mitchell? The world?

I'm up to my eye brows in work right now so I don't have the time to fact check. A time line of when Tumlinson supposedly found the stones, when the Life magazine article was published and when the McGee correspondence occurred would be helpful. Drop in the R. Tumlinson/Garman letter date, and the date Mitchell acquired. Back drop in all the road construction dates (should be available from the ADOT) and we should have a good working document for speculation purposes.

Lynda,

I look forward to see what you come up with.

It's great to have some fresh eyes, who are not jaded by previous overexposure, reviewing these stories. Many of us have a lot of hardened opinions and these opinions can be rehashed until doomsday but that doesn't move the ball forward.

I hesitate to single out individuals for compliments but Ryan, along with yourself and a couple of other new posters (at least to this story), have added new impetus and some excellent sources to this story.

Remember, someday you will also become as hardened in your beliefs as many of us. Sad but true!

I think the Clarence Mitchell, Life Magazine article in June of 1964 might serve as the first time the existence of the stones became "public" knowledge. That doesn't mean that a lot of local people weren't aware of them long before that.

Garry

 

[cw0909]

i think "ARIZONA TRANSPORTATION HISTORY" is a good read
fills in some gaps we've been discussing, sorry i lost the paper
note i made with pg #s, anyway found it interesting that the
roads/trails were kept up by the local citizens, farmers,miners
for decades
http://azdot.gov/docs/media/read-arizona's-transportation-history-in-its-entirety-.pdf?sfvrsn=0

ive only been able to skim the "The Handbook to Arizona: Its Resources, History, Towns, Mines,
Ruins, and Scenery. By Richard Josiah Hinton", but so far a good read to me, but then i like history
im hoping to get to this book and reread the Bernice files this wknd
2 links to book
https://archive.org/details/handbooktoarizo00hintgoog
Catalog Record: The handbook to Arizona : its resources,... | Hathi Trust Digital Library

 

[cw0909]

no. just Travis Marlowe aka Clarence O. Mitchell

Are you suspicious of EVERYONE who lives in Queen Valley....actually the Gold Canyon development BTW ?

Mitchell's Moel share selling began well before he purchased the stones from Aileen Tumlinson.
He started MOEL to offer shares in a mining and detection equipment venture.....nothing to do with the stone maps or Travis Tumlinson at first.
It wasn't till the stockholders found out from the Life Magazine article that he had these "treasure maps" and had been searching for the goodies, that the s--t hit the fan. Somebody ratted him out to the feds for selling more shares than he was authorized to sell....not that many over the limit really. But it was enough to force MOEL into bankruptcy. It doesn't seem like the case ever went to trial. It was settled some other way. Arbitration maybe ?

 

[Hal Croves]

Garry,

I have not gone back to re-read all the McGee correspondence. Forgive me if I've misunderstood something.

My thoughts are there were multiple construction episodes concerning the lanes on "new" Route 60. This, I think, is the source for the variations in the date(s) of the bridge photo(s). Varying from 1952-1955-1966. I don't think we can assume with 100% accuracy the grading by the construction workers that "supposedly" uncovered stone carvings dates to 1966. I believe, as McGee states, that this find happened "long ago", at least as she states (I'm paraphrasing) before the stones were made public. Public to whom? Mitchell? The world?

I'm up to my eye brows in work right now so I don't have the time to fact check. A time line of when Tumlinson supposedly found the stones, when the Life magazine article was published and when the McGee correspondence occurred would be helpful. Drop in the R. Tumlinson/Garman letter date, and the date Mitchell acquired. Back drop in all the road construction dates (should be available from the ADOT) and we should have a good working document for speculation purposes.

I would start here, in 1931, with these names but the history goes back even further.

"The older route in Florence took the SR 79 business route, Main Street and Ruggles Street through town. US 80/US 89 met up with US 60/70 at Florence Junction, where all four highways headed west towards Phoenix. Modern US 60 still travels this route. The original Florence Junction lies north of the current one. From this point, the earliest routings of US 60, US 80 and US 89 used El Camino Viejo, an old gravel road, before re-joining modern US 60 west of Florence."

Queen Creek Bridge - Old Florence Hwy. over Queen Creek, Florence Junction, AZ (Topeka Bridge & Iron Co.), NRHP-listed

Queen Creek Bridge
Designer	Topeka Bridge & Iron Co.
Location	Florence Junction, Arizona, USA
Date	1920
Building Type	Transportation
Construction System	Concrete, Inapplicable, Inapplicable, Concrete, Asphalt
Architectural Style	Concrete Luten arch
Street Address	Old Florence Hwy. over Queen Creek Walk Score

StatusPosted to the National Register of Historic Places on September 30, 1988Reference number88001643Architectural styleOther architectural type; Concrete Luten archAreas of significanceEngineering; TransportationLevel of significanceLocalEvaluation criteriaA - Event; C - Design/ConstructionProperty typeStructureHistoric functionRoad-relatedCurrent functionRoad-relatedPeriods of significance1900-1924; 1925-1949 Significant years1919; 1920


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