Video 4 - The Peralta Stone Maps with Frank Augustine

I agree with Ryan Bill, please continue. But for heaven sake, unlock that video when you can. Obviously people want to see it.
 

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These are just my random thoughts that don't have ANY books, articles or other scholarly works to support them.

I believe the stone maps are real maps that show a trail within the Superstition area. They may be genuine Peralta maps to their mines in the area, or may be mid 1900's creations for who knows what purpose. But; I believe they were crafted by someone who had an intimate knowledge of the mountains and its existing trails, ridges and canyons. If Travis Tomlinson created them, where they were found is a moot point. I just don't see him as having enough intimate knowledge of the area to be the creator. Could be wrong.

Where they were found is an important detail. That's why I have spent some time and others before me have spent a great deal of time trying to ferret out that spot.

Hal makes a good point that IF they are mid 1800's relics they would have, most likely, have been buried within a short distance of a well used trail. The well used trails of that time period would not have been ( I don't believe) the "new" Route 60 site. The actual junction at Florence and the road coming in from the south would have been a more likely spot.

But; that "well used trail" would fit very nicely with the junction of the old Route 60 (El Camino Viejo) and Silver King road junction.

If we really believe they are early relics I don't see any strong elements about the "new" Route 60 site to make it believable. What about that site makes someone support the idea the Peralta's or any other 1800's person or group would be drawn to that spot? From a defensive standpoint its suicidal. Travel along that route would have been by following the creek bed. If the current bridges weren't there it wouldn't even be a wide spot in the creek bed. How would it have been told or documented to those that followed?

At the old Route 60 site at least you have the junction of two old roads to identify and pass along as "the site" to dig. And there is enough rise in the area to provide some cover from detection.

What are your thoughts? Pro, con or a completely different scenario . I'd like to hear.
Lynda
 

Old said:
If Travis Tomlinson created them, where they were found is a moot point. I just don't see him as having enough intimate knowledge of the area to be the creator. Could be wrong.


Lynda
Click to expand...

This part has bugged me for years, where he allegedly says "He walked a ways from the side of the road for a bit of privacy and noticed that he had a good view of Weaver's Needle".

If he did not know the area and was "just passing through" how did he know about Weavers Needle and where to even look for it. Although I have been in the Superstitions many times over the years, I have never been to this site and I have no knowledge if the Needle is even visible from where he claims to have seen it.
 

Old said:
These are just my random thoughts that don't have ANY books, articles or other scholarly works to support them.

I believe the stone maps are real maps that show a trail within the Superstition area. They may be genuine Peralta maps to their mines in the area, or may be mid 1900's creations for who knows what purpose. But; I believe they were crafted by someone who had an intimate knowledge of the mountains and its existing trails, ridges and canyons. If Travis Tomlinson created them, where they were found is a moot point. I just don't see him as having enough intimate knowledge of the area to be the creator. Could be wrong.

Where they were found is an important detail. That's why I have spent some time and others before me have spent a great deal of time trying to ferret out that spot.

Hal makes a good point that IF they are mid 1800's relics they would have, most likely, have been buried within a short distance of a well used trail. The well used trails of that time period would not have been ( I don't believe) the "new" Route 60 site. The actual junction at Florence and the road coming in from the south would have been a more likely spot.

But; that "well used trail" would fit very nicely with the junction of the old Route 60 (El Camino Viejo) and Silver King road junction.

If we really believe they are early relics I don't see any strong elements about the "new" Route 60 site to make it believable. What about that site makes someone support the idea the Peralta's or any other 1800's person or group would be drawn to that spot? From a defensive standpoint its suicidal. Travel along that route would have been by following the creek bed. If the current bridges weren't there it wouldn't even be a wide spot in the creek bed. How would it have been told or documented to those that followed?

At the old Route 60 site at least you have the junction of two old roads to identify and pass along as "the site" to dig. And there is enough rise in the area to provide some cover from detection.

What are your thoughts? Pro, con or a completely different scenario . I'd like to hear.
Lynda
Click to expand...

A post to think on Old.

I don't actually put much faith in any of the discovery stories or for that matter, the "locations" immediate importance. At least not now. In my mind, that debate will only be resolved and understood after the maps are correctly deciphered, and that solution demonstrated to be 100% correct. It may never happen. Or, it could happen tomorrow. Who knows?

This is not meant to undermine the efforts of those who are doing the research on the discovery site. I love research, especially if it contributes, without charge or profit, to the conversation. And I have quite bit of respect for anyone who sacrifices their own time, money, and personal safety in pursuit of the facts. But in this case, concerning the discovery location, there are no cement hard facts really. Hence the various discovery stories and opinions. There just isn't enough for me to hang my bonnet on. That could change tonight with some fantastic revelation.

But, the conversation, when it remains civil, is intriguing and the efforts to understand inspirational.

It fascinates me to read your thoughts on the stone maps and their relationship to the Superstitions. I tend to agree. When you find yourself with a little extra time on your hands, I would enjoy reading how you came to that conclusion because, as a thinking woman, it can't simply be the proximity to the alleged discovery site. That's a presumption, and forgive me if I am wrong. Something has you convinced. I would appreciate learning exactly what.

Great post Old.
 

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Las Vegas Bob said:
This part has bugged me for years, where he allegedly says "He walked a ways from the side of the road for a bit of privacy and noticed that he had a good view of Weaver's Needle".

If he did not know the area and was "just passing through" how did he know about Weavers Needle and where to even look for it. Although I have been in the Superstitions many times over the years, I have never been to this site and I have no knowledge if the Needle is even visible from where he claims to have seen it.
Click to expand...

I've been looking for a way to say exactly what you just did. Totally on point.

Weavers needle isn't directly visible from ground level. Climbing up some of the small mountains in the area - possible. Haven't tried "yet"
 

RG1976 said:
I've been looking for a way to say exactly what you just did. Totally on point.

Weavers needle isn't directly visible from ground level. Climbing up some of the small mountains in the area - possible. Haven't tried "yet"
Click to expand...

Weavers Needle has been a well described landmark since the mid 1800's. It's depicted on period topographical maps, a few AZ road maps, written about in AZ Highways Magazine, and many other tourist and historical publications produced during, before, and after 1948. For an intelligent man like Travis, who obviously was well familiar with the ride from Oregon to Texas, and back again, it would not have been a stretch for him to know where he was, and of the surrounding landmarks.

In short, he probably had a map.
 

Old said:
These are just my random thoughts that don't have ANY books, articles or other scholarly works to support them.

I believe the stone maps are real maps that show a trail within the Superstition area. They may be genuine Peralta maps to their mines in the area, or may be mid 1900's creations for who knows what purpose. But; I believe they were crafted by someone who had an intimate knowledge of the mountains and its existing trails, ridges and canyons. If Travis Tomlinson created them, where they were found is a moot point. I just don't see him as having enough intimate knowledge of the area to be the creator. Could be wrong.

Where they were found is an important detail. That's why I have spent some time and others before me have spent a great deal of time trying to ferret out that spot.

Hal makes a good point that IF they are mid 1800's relics they would have, most likely, have been buried within a short distance of a well used trail. The well used trails of that time period would not have been ( I don't believe) the "new" Route 60 site. The actual junction at Florence and the road coming in from the south would have been a more likely spot.

But; that "well used trail" would fit very nicely with the junction of the old Route 60 (El Camino Viejo) and Silver King road junction.

If we really believe they are early relics I don't see any strong elements about the "new" Route 60 site to make it believable. What about that site makes someone support the idea the Peralta's or any other 1800's person or group would be drawn to that spot? From a defensive standpoint its suicidal. Travel along that route would have been by following the creek bed. If the current bridges weren't there it wouldn't even be a wide spot in the creek bed. How would it have been told or documented to those that followed?

At the old Route 60 site at least you have the junction of two old roads to identify and pass along as "the site" to dig. And there is enough rise in the area to provide some cover from detection.

What are your thoughts? Pro, con or a completely different scenario . I'd like to hear.
Lynda
Click to expand...

Lynda,

On the south bank of QC, west of the southbound portion of rt 60, there is the remnant of a very old trail that cuts down the bank and starts crossing over the washes just as it reaches the bridges themselves. Although severely eroded by now, if you put yourself in the right place, you can see it. Perhaps Ryan can check this out next time he is out there and get a shot from the right perspective (looking down the trail, facing slightly northeast).

It is no accident that there is a site of interest at the spot where a trail crosses over a water source, as these were customarily places to strike camp in the wagon days.

As far as your assertion that this place would have been suicidal from a defensive standpoint, that depends on what era and what antagonist you are talking about.
 

This is getting real old, Ryan please stop insulting Hal, the "drama train from New Jersey" is an insult and was uncalled for.

Anyone sniping, if this constant sniping back and forth at each other doesn't stop we will lock this thread so tight it will never see light and hand out timeouts as well.......

There is no "he started it first" or "I'm just giving what I got" if two break rules both will have spare time to do something else, it is way past getting old and I am not the only mod who thinks so.
 

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Is the video open or it it to just the Youtube channel?
 

Here is a pic from a 1900 topo.
You can see that Silver King road follows the creek East.
Then the old 60 is just a small dip and then heads West.
Where the Y is.
Barks Ranch-1900.jpg
 

Your call Ryan.Hate to see it end but some members are close to being banned from the site.
 

RG1976 said:
Take care all - this will be my last post. I'm getting tired - very tired.

You won, Hal Croves :)
Click to expand...
Don't blame it on Hal.... It is constant bickering from MULTIPLE members.

Once thread is posted it belongs to TreasureNet and any member can reply unless a mods says different. Replies do not have to agree with OP, only be respectful and by the rules....
 

Tnmountains said:
Your call Ryan.Hate to see it end but some members are close to being banned from the site.
Click to expand...

It's just not worth the effort to display my content and videos here when the site is so hard to navigate between the negativity.

I appreciate you Richard and I've expressed these same concerns to you via phone. Nothing has changed.

Marty (treasure hunter) I have the right to form my opinions .

Enjoy - and thanks for the experience.

Please don't go locking the thread after I'm gone - people have learned a lot here - including myself.
 

Ryan, you have the right to form your opinions as do other members...we are tired of the bickering between multiple members which violates our rules and it is NOT one sided...
 

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Treasure_Hunter said:
This is getting real old, Ryan please stop insulting Hal, the "drama train from New Jersey" is an insult and was uncalled for.

Anyone sniping, if this constant sniping back and forth at each other doesn't stop we will lock this thread so tight it will never see light and hand out timeouts as well.......

There is no "he started it first" or "I'm just giving what I got" if two break rules both will have spare time to do something else, it is way past getting old and I am not the only mod who thinks so.
Click to expand...

Ryan,
I would never consider making this offer to any other member however, it may be a compromise and a way for you to move forward without feeling harassed. If you ask me in a post, to stop participating in your threads, and promise to do the same where my threads are concerned, I will drop out and leave you be. A mutual ignore.
Is that a Mexican stand off?

I honestly don't want any thread shut down and think its a decent solution to a silly and distractive situation.
A deal?
 

Thread is unlocked... Any insults towards other members will not end well for member throwing insults and mocking or talking down to another member will be treated the same.

If you can remain civil to ALL members thread can stay open..
 

hi somehiker,thank you for your patience re: explanations on the construction in the
area, i was just trying to fig out how much topsoil around there was/is construction
debris, when Travis found the stones
i noticed i had put the B in wrong spot, thought i had deleted it and changed it

somehiker said:
Hi CW:

B.... is the on ramp for westbound US 60....it's how you access US 60 towards Phoenix when coming from Florence, or from the old highway from Superior-Globe which is visible a bit more to the north on the Acme map view. The old highway splits just to the west of the junction, with the more northerly part being the oldest route that was used as a highway prior to 1938.
D.... the newer eastbound lanes of US 60,as we know from the Az Memory Project photos, were added sometime around 1965.
the westbound lanes already existed in 1938, as US 60-80, as seen on the 1938 Az. road map I posted from one of your previous links, but were probably widened and repaved at the same time.
Click to expand...
 

i have a Q about these rocks, why would the ones ive pointed out, be cut
like they are

cut rock.jpg
 

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