Video 4 - The Peralta Stone Maps with Frank Augustine

[UncleMatt]

I disagree one had to be a "master stone mason" to drill holes and use shims and wedges to cut rock. Its a simple technique I imagine was very well known and common among the Spanish. I'm not in the business of pretending masons are associated with every little thing.

I also disagree that the site where the maps were found was over a mile to the north of where Ryan took his video. Nothing has been presented here that would indicate that is the case, just assumption. The old HWY 60 is obvious on GE to this day, and was only moved because the owner of the gas station wanted more money than the highway department wanted to pay. So they simply swung around his property to the south and then got right back on the same old track. No alternate bridges were involved. HWY 60 is THE road along which the maps were found according to all Tumlinson accounts. Not El Camino Viejo. I think Ryan was filming in the correct location.

 

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[Hal Croves]

Hi Hal:

I've been working late on a couple of replies to previous posts by Old, Gary, and Deducer.
Takes a lot of time to go through the various files and links I have, so patience is required.

SH.

Patience is something that I am rich in.
Gold, lost treasure, and a face for video, not so much.

That sepia looking map is awesome.

 

[Azquester]

After reading 58 pages last night off the Lost Dutchman website that Garry, Mike, Wayne and others did their investigation of the Tumlinson legend I was tired!

Travis was observed cutting the elongated circles on the back of the heart stone by witnesses. He may have done this for kicks or for a purpose.
I did a Video at the site Ryan and Frank were at I was saving it for last. In the Video I state how it's makes no sense that someone would place the maps at that spot.
After looking at the grave shaped hole with no dirt piles through solid rock It triggered a memory about lime caves that I played in when I was a child.

Lime caves had water made blow out holes in the top and you had to look out for those holes as we considered them a dead fall death trap. I never thought of digging one out and using it for stashing something important!

If there's more of these erosional Blow Out holes in the top of lime caves near the surface of the flat area where the stone maps were found the heart stone may be a clue.

Six grave like holes all blow holes from an old lime cave complex! No digging required just located the right spot and dig!

Five more to go. Maybe they used dowsing to find the spots where the lime holes were at? If you know the way you can drive all over this spot it looks as though it was used as a campsite for hunters.

 

[UncleMatt]

It says the video is private. You might consider starting a separate thread for your own videos, since Ryan started this thread for his.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

I disagree one had to be a "master stone mason" to drill holes and use shims and wedges to cut rock. Its a simple technique I imagine was very well known and common among the Spanish. I'm not in the business of pretending masons are associated with every little thing.
QUOTE]

I agree UncleMatt. Having walked among the monoliths at Stonehenge and Avebury to witness what ancient man could do with simple tools on such gigantic stones. The idea of these simple holes having to have been made by a "mason or a freemason" is over the top.

 

[captain1965]

What about the Latin heart stone? Many believe the Latin heart stone was a hoax. But if the stone was truthfully found in the same area wouldn't that lend credence to Tumlinson's story? Is the Latin heart stone the 5th stone? Did Travis inadvertently drop or lose the Latin heart during his discovery? The person who found the Latin heart stone reported that the stone was laying on the surface in the general area that Tumlinson had previously found the collection of maps.

 

[deducer]

What about the Latin heart stone? Many believe the Latin heart stone was a hoax. But if the stone was truthfully found in the same area wouldn't that lend credence to Tumlinson's story? Is the Latin heart stone the 5th stone? Did Travis inadvertently drop or lose the Latin heart during his discovery? The person who found the Latin heart stone reported that the stone was laying on the surface in the general area that Tumlinson had previously found the collection of maps.

I doubt that Travis had lost or inadvertently dropped the LH as he did not return with the person who had discovered the LH, (who remains unidentified to this day, and is often erroneously thought to be Bill Hidden or Charlie Miller), to the site to conduct a more extensive search over a larger area. Also the discovery of the LH occurred a few years after Travis discovered the stones.

Also as far as I know, Travis did not engage in any discussion in regard to the LH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Bill,
Don't let petty negative comments discourage you from your efforts. There is more than enough bandwidth available for all the egos involved and opposing views are always welcomed. Encouraged even. If possible, please unlock the video as I would enjoy watching it.

As I wrote earlier, you are simply too interesting to ignore.

What was it that Father Kino said to his detractors?

 

[UncleMatt]

No one is trying to discourage anyone here, but this thread is specifically about Ryan and Frank's video, is it not Hal?

 

[Hal Croves]

No one is trying to discourage anyone here, but this thread is specifically about Ryan and Frank's video, is it not Hal?

I didn't think that you were discouraging anyone. Strange that you felt I was addressing you?

My post was directed at anyone belittling another's effort. As far as I am concerned they are all equally good amateur videos. I think it's flattering that Bill wants to be part of the conversation, in fact he was even asked to participate, sans the silly humor. The guy makes an effort to contribute intelligently, respectfully, and he is demeaned. And to bring up non relevant ideas that Bill has expressed in other threads is, in my humble opinion, quite sad.

It is an open thread, a public forum, and as long as Bill keeps it relevant to the conversation, I see no reason why his ideas should be stymied. Video, written, or expressed through images, really, what's the difference.

Ignoring someone on TNet is really not that difficult a task.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Same old thing. No where to bury a Map bedrock everywhere! Old Artifacts lying about.

These people were miners they could bury a map anywhere they wanted to. They were use to digging into hard rock, bedrock, caliche.

The ancient Egyptians were able to quarry granite for their temples and obelisk. As well the ancient Mayans actually quarried caliche to build some of the buildings in the Yucatán Peninsula in Mexico.

So all in all it is not an impossible task to dig where ever anyone has a mind to do so.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

What was it that Father Kino said to his detractors?

What did he say?

 

[RG1976]

::sigh:: it never ends.

Let's get things back on topic. Somehiker, deducer, Garry and many others have contributed so much. Thank you.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hal stop the insults and leave the moderation to the mods. If you think someone is breaking rules report it and let mods handle it please....

 

[Hal Croves]

These people were miners they could bury a map anywhere they wanted to. They were use to digging into hard rock, bedrock, caliche.

The ancient Egyptians were able to quarry granite for their temples and obelisk. As well the ancient Mayans actually quarried caliche to build some of the buildings in the Yucatán Peninsula in Mexico.

So all in all it is not an impossible task to dig where ever anyone has a mind to do so.

Las Vegas Bob,
It seems that you and I have explored similar places. For what it's worth, all the cultures that you mentioned, the Egyptians, the Mayans, the pre Brits, they each had their own guild of stone masons. Forget the Masonic connection for now and think about the craft itself. Constructing these stone forms was not something just anyone could accomplish. Read deeper into Solomon's Temple and see just how far skilled labor travelled to do what locals could not.

Eventually you you will see that Masonic traditions and ideas used masonry (the guilds) as an analogy to what they were working towards. Building a better self. Can you imagine if they had borrowed from the guild of bakers? Spoon and spatula, cotton aprons and 33rd degree cupcake makers. Not very marketable.

But at the end of the day you are correct. It doesn't take a Freemason to dig a hole.
Seems that happens everyday in some places.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal stop the insults and leave the moderation to the mods. If you think someone is breaking rules report it and let mods handle it please....

Please let me know which part of my post you felt was an insult. I thought I was being supportive of another member who is obviously being shown very little respect if not continually insulted.

I will PM the examples but honestly, when I am addressed, I should have the right to respond. Which is what I do, but with respect.

Thank TH!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please let me know which part of my post you felt was an insult. I thought I was being supportive of another member who is obviously being shown very little respect if not continually insulted.

I will PM the examples but honestly, when I am addressed, I should have the right to respond. Which is what I do, but with respect.

Thank TH!

If you wish to discuss it please do so via pm, not in open forum..

 

[Hal Croves]

If you wish to discuss it please do so via pm, not in open forum..

Thanks TH!

 

[Hal Croves]

What did he say?

Perhaps you should read up on Father Kino. His ethics, in IMO, were without equal.
It was a difficult time.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Perhaps you should read up on Father Kino. His ethics, in IMO, were without equal.
It was a difficult time.

I read about him, I found him to be boring.[h=2][/h]