The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[azdave35]

Are these donuts frosted by any chance? If so, I'll take one.

you can have the frosted ones...but i get the chocolate donuts

 

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[deducer]

you can have the frosted ones...but i get the chocolate donuts

Hopefully the Jesuit dutchman peralta priest made some. That is... if he wasn't too busy flying over Portuguese bend on Black Canyon.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Previously I made this post:

DanB,

Is this a photo of the bend in the creek one mile due west of the Valencia Mine off the old Bumble Bee Road ?

Some people call that creek Poison Creek, others Sycamore creek but it actually was Turkey Creek in Pioneer (Peralta) days.

If it is, that is where the Peralta's ( Pedro and Miguel and Miguel's father) had their arrastras for working the gold they took out of the Valencia one mile to the east.

The Valencia was recorded at Prescott 1863-1864 and sold off to anglos by Pedro Peralta and the other Mexican owners. The records are in the old Yavapai County Recorders books.

I've been to the Valencia on several occasions and over where the arrastras were in the creek. This is one of the few places in Arizona where Peralta's are actually documented as having mined.

Matthew

DanB wrote: Yes it is.....the 2 donuts or circles are arastas... grinding stones.



I have been to the Valencia mine and have walked the one mile from the mine west to the creek where the arrastras were. In the days when Pablo, Pedro, Miguel Peralta worked the Valencia a dam was built across the creek.
You can see today where the ore was worked because the bedrock along the creek is worn away in places. Anyone who doesn't believe there were arrastras at that bend in the creek need only read the Prescott newspaper of the day which more than once references the mine and the arrastras in "Turkey Creek" one mile west of the mine. Floods washed away the dam which was rebuilt and washed away again.

I don't know how the Stone Maps fit this area if they do at all. I am not skilled at reading those maps so I leave that up to the experts. I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

Today that mine is known as the Gloryana. I had never heard the name "Portugese Bend" for that bend in the creek. I know there is a large placer operation just up creek from the bend called the Black Canyon Placers.

This valencia mine and site of the arrastras are very easy to get to. You can drive there in your car on a good paved road, park near the mine and walk the mile over to the bend in the creek.

Matthew

 

[markmar]

The circles or donuts are where the gold was milled

DanB

The " donuts ' are mines/tunnels and are the same ( and in the same location ) with the mine symbols in front of the Horse from the other side of the stone map .
I don't believe an arrastra would be depicted in such map .

 

[azdave35]

Previously I made this post:

DanB,

Is this a photo of the bend in the creek one mile due west of the Valencia Mine off the old Bumble Bee Road ?

Some people call that creek Poison Creek, others Sycamore creek but it actually was Turkey Creek in Pioneer (Peralta) days.

If it is, that is where the Peralta's ( Pedro and Miguel and Miguel's father) had their arrastras for working the gold they took out of the Valencia one mile to the east.

The Valencia was recorded at Prescott 1863-1864 and sold off to anglos by Pedro Peralta and the other Mexican owners. The records are in the old Yavapai County Recorders books.

I've been to the Valencia on several occasions and over where the arrastras were in the creek. This is one of the few places in Arizona where Peralta's are actually documented as having mined.

Matthew

DanB wrote: Yes it is.....the 2 donuts or circles are arastas... grinding stones.



I have been to the Valencia mine and have walked the one mile from the mine west to the creek where the arrastras were. In the days when Pablo, Pedro, Miguel Peralta worked the Valencia a dam was built across the creek.
You can see today where the ore was worked because the bedrock along the creek is worn away in places. Anyone who doesn't believe there were arrastras at that bend in the creek need only read the Prescott newspaper of the day which more than once references the mine and the arrastras in "Turkey Creek" one mile west of the mine. Floods washed away the dam which was rebuilt and washed away again.

I don't know how the Stone Maps fit this area if they do at all. I am not skilled at reading those maps so I leave that up to the experts. I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

Today that mine is known as the Gloryana. I had never heard the name "Portugese Bend" for that bend in the creek. I know there is a large placer operation just up creek from the bend called the Black Canyon Placers.

This valencia mine and site of the arrastras are very easy to get to. You can drive there in your car on a good paved road, park near the mine and walk the mile over to the bend in the creek.

Matthew

matthew....the bend in the google earth map dan posted is or was known as Portuguese bend,,,...the story is some Portuguese prospectors took alot of gold off that bend back in the day

 

[Matthew Roberts]

The map on the left, (portion of the map), shows what appears to be the Priest that is carved on the Peralta Stone Maps holding a Cross.
Can anyone explain from where this map originates and what is it's relation if any to the Stone Maps ?

 

[somehiker]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...real-maps-lost-gold-mines-cruel-hoax-148.html

 

[somehiker]

I also have another version of the same map somewhere in my files, as well as another "das luca map" of a smaller area within both.
Could have been based on Storm's almost identical figure in his "stone map" article of 1967, or even the Life Magazine photos.
What is known about "Jean Paul Gagne" ?

 

[Old]

Ah, the Das Luca map. Das Luca aka Jean Paul Gagne. The map was said to be handed to Frank R. Davis.

The map of 4 hearts. Includes symbolism to attribute it to Society of Jesus, questionable if authentic.

Wayne, I would have thought you might be the only one to shed some light on this. I think both men are from your neck of the woods.

Lynda

 

[Matthew Roberts]

somehiker,

The "Jesuit Treasure Map" is interesting because it fits the searches of Travis Tumlinson and his associates as well as Clarence O. Mitchell (Travis Marlowe).

I am worthless when it comes to deciphering these maps, I leave that task to those who actually understand the signs and symbols and how to read them.

My question is however, when and where did this "Jesuit Treasure Map" come into existence or become known to treasure hunters ?

Was it before or after the Peralta Stone Maps were "discovered" by Travis Tumlinson in circa 1949 ?

The name Das Luca is more than coincidentally the same name as the man involved with the tin type photograph of a young Jacob Waltz.


Das Luca photo of young Jacob Waltz.

The name , Jean Paul Gagne is unknown to me and I understand Das Luca and Jean Paul Gagne are one and the same person. (?)

Is there anything you can fill in about this Jesuit Map, its origins, who Das Luca/JP Gagne might be and if this is the map the Tumlinson associates used to search the Superstitions ?

Matthew

 

[nobodie]

Stone trail maps lower right hand corner.

 

[sgtfda]

In edited version plus 2 others

 

[sgtfda]

Unedited

 

[somehiker]

View attachment 1486676

somehiker,

The "Jesuit Treasure Map" is interesting because it fits the searches of Travis Tumlinson and his associates as well as Clarence O. Mitchell (Travis Marlowe).

I am worthless when it comes to deciphering these maps, I leave that task to those who actually understand the signs and symbols and how to read them.

My question is however, when and where did this "Jesuit Treasure Map" come into existence or become known to treasure hunters ?

Was it before or after the Peralta Stone Maps were "discovered" by Travis Tumlinson in circa 1949 ?

The name Das Luca is more than coincidentally the same name as the man involved with the tin type photograph of a young Jacob Waltz.

View attachment 1486679
Das Luca photo of young Jacob Waltz.

The name , Jean Paul Gagne is unknown to me and I understand Das Luca and Jean Paul Gagne are one and the same person. (?)

Is there anything you can fill in about this Jesuit Map, its origins, who Das Luca/JP Gagne might be and if this is the map the Tumlinson associates used to search the Superstitions ?

Matthew

There's been a couple of different claims made as to the origin of that tintype.
One being that Gagne found it at the bottom of a mine shaft, somewhere in the Goldfield Mtns. in 1971, along with a pair of glasses, a candle holder, old bible and some gold bars.
But J. Feldman has said the tintype was found by Bud Dunn ( or maybe Bud Lane) in 1960, somewhere out in the east end of the range. As I recall, the tintype was said to be one of the clues to the "pit mine is the LDM" story. Regardless of which story/date you believe, both dates fall well after the first publicized photos of the stone maps. These maps probably appeared within that time frame.....1960-71....but if the "ground map" (PegLeg map), turns out to be the same or very similar to any of these, there's gonna be more questions looking for answers IMO.
I see that Frank has just added a number of "das luca" maps to the topic. Jean Paul Gagne said the maps came from a French Jesuit, and are partly annotated in French......but "treasure hunters" are sometimes noted for certain artistic abilities. I wonder if Gagne was the TH'er sometimes referred to as "the Canadian" in some of the old-timer history ?

 

[Cubfan64]

At one point a few years ago there was a discussion on one of the other forums about that tintype photo and although I can't find the reference I believe the general consensus was that it couldn't be Waltz due to trying to tie in when tintypes were invented and used along with Waltz's age at the time as well as his age when he died. I think Wayne Tuttle put 2+2 together and the photo shows a much younger person than what age Waltz would have been at that time.

Of course as with anything else, who really knows.

 

[JohnWhite]

Who really knows is a good question Cubanfan64. I have been there and done that. I could send you a sample of ore as proof but the ore is too darn valuable. I have even tried to place it on eBay for a second time but the powers that be would not allow it. Here is a copy of my eBay offering,

Piedras de Inga,Platina di Pinto,Juan Blanco,Pt Ore from the Spanish West Indies

"Some of these Piedras de Inga I now take the Liberty of laying before the Society..." I believe my specimens to be from an ancient Spanish mine that was closed by the King of Spain in the Province of Quito..."It has been reported that the Spaniards have sometimes been tempted to adulterate Gold with Platina, as the Mixture could not be distinguish'd from true Gold by all the ordinary Trials: But the Gold thus adulterated was, upon a nicer Examination, found hard and brittle, and could not be separated from the Platina, and render'd ductile and pure, either by Cementation, or by the more ordinary Operations with Lead and Antimony. In order therefore to prevent this Fraud, the King of Spain commanded that the Mines of Platina should be stopped up; so that this Semi-metal is now much scarcer than formerly." Please do not try to have me prove the validity of my claims...These specimens were collected over 25 years ago from a mine that I doubt I'll ever be able to return to...The quantity of specimens remaining in my possession is limited to less than 15 pounds of Platina ore...I am not trying to commit fraud upon anyone in any way shape or form...So if you are the type of bidder or buyer that doubts the validity of my claims...DON'T PURCHASE MY PIEDRAS DE INGA...It is my belief that these specimens are from the Provincial Mines of Quito...Though there is no way I can possibly prove such a claim...So...If you are a doubter...Please do not purchase these specimens...I believe my specimens to be the Warhol's of the mineral world...If you can not afford to speculate on such rare specimens...I repeat...Do not buy them...DUE TO SUCH RARITY...And the fact that there is no guarantee that I or anyone else in the near future will ever find said lost mine again, THIS SPECIMEN WILL CONSIST OF 110.7 GRAMS OF what I believe to be Piedras de Inga...If you are not fully satisfied with said specimen...You may return it for a full refund of your purchase price...I believe these specimens to be of the same origin as those presented to the Royal Society of England in the year 1740-1748...It should not be hard for someone with the means to prove such a statement...I believe these specimens to be RARER than any Brillo box...But what do I knowIt should not be hard to prove the provenance if these specimens are from the same origin as those presented to the Royal Society of England...And if a person could do such a thing I am certain that the value of said specimen would increase greatly...That is if any of said specimens are still in existence...Furthermore the Platina is visible to the naked eye which should mean that this specimen would contain greater than 40+ ounces of Platina to the ton of ore...Though I believe it to be much much greater...Did I fail to mention that these are very SPECIAL RARE specimens...Some of you might ask...It there were over 40+ ounces of Platina per ton of ore...Why doesn't the fool just work it...My simple reply is that the mine has been lost to time...

I find it hard to part with these beauties...So I am quite certain I will try to keep the number of lots of said specimens to 10 lots or less...If you would like to possess mineral specimens that are worthy to grace any world class mineral collection...You should bid while the bidding is good...I believe these specimens are worth much more than what I am asking for them...Each specimen is unique from the other...Each specimen will consist of Hard rock Platina ore...

It has been quite a while since I have offered this ore on eBay...And the size of the lot offered at said time was in the 20 Gram range per the current asking price...As time marches on...The size of the lots will only get smaller and the price will remain the same...

I'm certain that if I were not trying to get out of debt I would not be offering these rare beauties on eBay...



Good Luck

Oh well. Maybe one day I will get to recycle some catalytic converters to get me some real platinum.

 

[JohnWhite]

Who knows. Maybe one day I jest might try to scrape up 70 lbs troy of said platina. I wouldn't have to worry about being poor anymore. hahaha. I don't think I could handle six more days on a darn mule again, three days to and three days fro. Oh well. One may always dream. Of course that would be at todays $32 per gram price per platinum. I wonder if my calculations are correct? I guess that we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[somehiker]

In edited version plus 2 others
View attachment 1486714View attachment 1486715View attachment 1486716

Another "shadow priest".....Tale of the Lost Dutchman: bibliography with comments and chronology. Core Works, Part Two

 

[deducer]

Is there anything you can fill in about this Jesuit Map, its origins, who Das Luca/JP Gagne might be and if this is the map the Tumlinson associates used to search the Superstitions ?

Matthew

Not to answer for somehiker, or start throwing cold water on all this but...

As far as the "Jesuit" maps displayed within the last few posts, I would be highly suspicious as to their authenticity. I have seen (very rarely) real Jesuit treasure maps, and they are very creative works of art. They don't look anything like what has been posted. For one thing, slapping the Jesuit icon on all the maps just wasn't their MO, especially concerning areas they were not supposed to be in. Such things would have served as trial evidence. Also the years listed on some of those maps just don't work as far as Jesuit history is concerned. When the Jesuits were resurrected in 1814, they had ceased all covert activity and completely reinvented themselves as servants of Christ, instead of soldiers.

With all due respect to Frank, and I know he is a person of high integrity, but as far as the "Walzer cache" on one of the maps posted- the Jesuits were long gone before Waltz ever came onto the scene, over a hundred years later, so I am not so sure.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Unfortunately Sailaway, most of the old mines that I have found down here in Ole Mexico, are of a smaller statured Indians. The Spanish way of mining using fire did not allow any such extravagance, they just removed such materiel as was necessary to work the richer parts, evidence of a smaller status abounds down here - a bonus for the Spaniards.

Incidentally, haven't you heard of the long, cold, winters.? Interbreeding, sides many of the Indian girls were quite pretty - such as our DIT>