The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Ellie Baba]

So Eric,

You are telling me that you cannot see the Arabian guy in the photo (far right)? This time I have singled him out and remember to view him from more of a distance and not real close up. If you do look close up this would be the time to search for the smaller scaled down groups of people. These artists love to create within the creation three fold.



Hope this helps everyone interested in learning.

Ellie B.

 

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[Ellie Baba]

Where would you suggest a newbie begin in order to start learning this talent? I'm in FL and my roommate sees images in every tree and rock. Sometimes I do too. Every time I have to wonder if that's something someone really put there or just pareidolia ( Pareidolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

Salura,

The first technique to understand is enhancement. Most of these animated shadow art forms were chosen (prequalified) due to the ease of enhancement to complete an image or sign/symbol. If you cannot recognize the technique of enhancement within the art form you just may be experiencing pareidolia. Clouds are moving continually, rocks do not, but their texture continually changes as the sun moves across the heavens. This is the time to look for that classic technique of enhancement. Use your imagination as those artists once did and you will become better with practice. Once you know where these types of art forms exist you will always be able to see them there, hiding in the full light or hidden by the changing shadows.

I approach these art forms as if playing hide and seek. You just need to know what to look for.

Ellie B

 

[somehiker]

"see the Arabian guy in the photo"

I see Blackbeard, with a sword in his right hand.....
Maybe the Queen Anne's Revenge is somewhere around.
And there'd be treasure there, by gum.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hey Joe,

I really like your choice of examples; especially the escapee chicken (rooster) from Pilgrims Pride. Normally any photographs that I post have been reduced in size after auto correction and then cropped. Joe's pics were run through the same procedure. Notice the difference in the rock's texture and detail. Joe, i would say that your Indian profile was made by the hands of men. An excellent job of enhancement. Signs and symbols accompanied by a number of human forms. Some very nice capitol letters can be seen too.

I love this photograph of a man and his dog. Our dogs are great to have around.

Awesome pics Joe, and thank you.

Ellie b

 

[markmar]

Hi Ellie

Ok , the rock looks like an Arab . You believe how has a relation with the stone tablets ?

 

[coazon de oro]

Salura, The first technique to understand is enhancement. Most of these animated shadow art forms were chosen (prequalified) due to the ease of enhancement to complete an image or sign/symbol. If you cannot recognize the technique of enhancement within the art form you just may be experiencing pareidolia. Clouds are moving continually, rocks do not, but their texture continually changes as the sun moves across the heavens. This is the time to look for that classic technique of enhancement. Use your imagination as those artists once did and you will become better with practice. Once you know where these types of art forms exist you will always be able to see them there, hiding in the full light or hidden by the changing shadows. I approach these art forms as if playing hide and seek. You just need to know what to look for. Ellie B

You might get better results with the infra-red technique, just saying.

Homar

 

[Ellie Baba]

"see the Arabian guy in the photo" I see Blackbeard, with a sword in his right hand..... Maybe the Queen Anne's Revenge is somewhere around. And there'd be treasure there, by gum.

Could be a Pharaoh with the goatee chin thing and he is holding his staff. Still a treasure involved either way...

EB

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Homar,

Tried that and infrared film too; no cigar. Must be done on the ground, right location and the right time of day. Playing with different lenses and filters may help like when using non-digital cameras.

There is usually an easier way to skin a cat... or maybe not!

Thanks for suggestion.

Later,

EB

 

[coazon de oro]

Hi Homar, Tried that and infrared film too; no cigar. Must be done on the ground, right location and the right time of day. Playing with different lenses and filters may help like when using non-digital cameras. There is usually an easier way to skin a cat... or maybe not! Thanks for suggestion. Later, EB

Howdy EB,

My thoughts are that infra-red can be used to verify your finds. It should separate the man made, or altered, from the pareidolia.

I'm not suggesting that you abandon your hide, and seek approach, but to try the one two three red light.

Homar

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Ellie Ok , the rock looks like an Arab . You believe how has a relation with the stone tablets ?

Not with the stone tablets as we know them today. The important variable is the identity of the other groups who came along with them. Let's say that there was an evolutionary process that took place and the parts had to fit together to make it all work through the ages.

I am not claiming to be 100% certain of this process, however, it is worth looking into.

I'll know more as we continue our research.

Ellie B

 

[cactusjumper]

Ellie,

Just trying to inject a little humor into the conversation. Glad to see you took it that way. I meant no offense.

Let me do a little advance setup for my next picture. Around 40-45 years ago, I put the Stone Maps to a topographic map. In 1999 I, along with my Cousin Sam and Brother in law, Corky went looking for one of the symbols on the maps. Had no idea what it would be, basically a blind search, but in the right area of the mountains.

We went to the spot where it should be, as shown on my map. I figured it was the end, or very close to it, of the Stone Map Trail. I was looking for a cave, mine or other man-made artifact. We found nothing! As usual, we took lots of pictures. It was 35mm film in 1999.



When I got home and developed the film, I found this picture in the bunch:



I had always called the end of the trail symbol a circle in a circle......I am a simple man. On the map, it should end up being on a promontory that was on the west end of a sizeable hill, with a small mesa on top. Needless to say, the next year we went back to that spot. Although we spent quite a bit of time, we couldn't find the formation.

On our last day in camp, while waiting for the Feldman boys, two of our members went back up the spot where it should have been. This time, they took the 8x10 that I had printed up. They went out to the spot and held the picture up and aligned it to the background terrain. They could even see the small bush that was in front of the formation.

The picture you see was not really visible. Wrong time of day, different shadows.......but sure as hell, it was still there. On the day they confirmed that the formation was still there, they hiked down into Little Boulder and crawled into the center of the triangle that was formed by the shape of the canyon and the brush that was nearly impassable.

The found a small clearing in the middle, with a small outcropping in the center.

They had a White's void detector with them and decided to fire it up in the metal detector mode. It pegged the needle. it turned out to be magnesite. Don't know if everyone knows it, but the Ruth family had some interest in magnesite.



No doubt it's all just a coincidence.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

Howdy EB, My thoughts are that infra-red can be used to verify your finds. It should separate the man made, or altered, from the pareidolia. I'm not suggesting that you abandon your hide, and seek approach, but to try the one two three red light. Homar

Howdy Homar,

There is a one, two, three green light method that we are considering. Not to expensive (if we split it up) and very thorough in my minds eye. Will also solve two of our biggest problems; what time and where to be when viewing. I cannot go into any detail at present. There were a number of rock art dating methods that we have studied and considered. We were not to impressed with the results in comparison to cost. We are approaching a point that I had discussed with you recently. We must choose our allies very carefully to avoid a number of pitfalls.

The trail is dangerous!

Ellie b

 

[Ellie Baba]

cactusjumper wrote;

Ellie, Just trying to inject a little humor into the conversation. Glad to see you took it that way. I meant no offense. Let me do a little advance setup for my next picture. Around 40-45 years ago, I put the Stone Maps to a topographic map. In 1999 I, along with my Cousin Sam and Brother in law, Corky went looking for one of the symbols on the maps. Had no idea what it would be, basically a blind search, but in the right area of the mountains. We went to the spot where it should be, as shown on my map. I figured it was the end, or very close to it, of the Stone Map Trail. I was looking for a cave, mine or other man-made artifact. We found nothing! As usual, we took lots of pictures. It was 35 mm film in 1999.

When I got home and developed the film, I found this picture in the bunch: I had always called the end of the trail symbol a circle in a circle......I am a simple man. On the map, it should end up being on a promontory that was on the west end of a sizeable hill, with a small mesa on top. Needless to say, the next year we went back to that spot. Although we spent quite a bit of time, we couldn't find the formation. On our last day in camp, while waiting for the Feldman boys, two of our members went back up the spot where it should have been. This time, they took the 8x10 that I had printed up. They went out to the spot and held the picture up and aligned it to the background terrain. They could even see the small bush that was in front of the formation. The picture you see was not really visible. Wrong time of day, different shadows.......but sure as hell, it was still there. On the day they confirmed that the formation was still there, they hiked down into Little Boulder and crawled into the center of the triangle that was formed by the shape of the canyon and the brush that was nearly impassable. The found a small clearing in the middle, with a small outcropping in the center. They had a White's void detector with them and decided to fire it up in the metal detector mode. It pegged the needle. it turned out to be magnesite. Don't know if everyone knows it, but the Ruth family had some interest in magnesite. No doubt it's all just a coincidence.

Take care, Joe

Hey Joe,

The circle in a circle represents degrees as in a heading or the position of the sun. Your account above represents the fact relating to the position of the sun. Did you find a capital "J" or "L" on any of the rock faces?

I wish that I had a larger jpeg file to work with as there is some information depicted on these stone markers. See circled area on your photograph.



Would like to see larger jpeg file on the first photograph too. Interesting area to say the least. The map you were following led to one of 18 places.

It is not coincidence...

Ellie B

 

[UncleMatt]

One of the reasons I question all the things that people claim to see in rock formations is the ability and motivation of the people who supposedly created them. I see hundreds of posts where people post photos of supposed carvings or inscriptions, and I don't even see so much as a chisel mark, let alone something that has been sculpted. And no one ever seems to ask: how long would it have taken people hundreds of years ago to chisel out what is in the photo? No one seems to ask how people who were just trying to survive would have years to stick around very remote areas with little or no water and food to "carve" all the huge monuments people post. Unless their was some religious significance to a site that would have been shared over generations of people, how or why would that have been something those people were engaged in? I'm not saying monuments don't exist, I just doubt the majority of people who claim to have found such things are correct. Natural formations are just that, though we may try to imagine what we are observing was created by man. Of course it is totally possible that people hundreds of years ago also saw the shapes and forms we do today, and modified or used them as land marks. But the idea that every crack, every shadow, every bore hole, is a man made sign leading to somewhere or something just seems like wishful thinking to me.

Gollum posted that story on his website about the guys who found over 80 pounds of gold for example. Was there a single sculpted rock involved? Were any monuments involved? Nope. Just some simple man made markings which were easily identifiable as such. No one stuck around for years with a chisel and hammer creating monuments the size of an RV to lead people to that treasure. If people were motivated to suddenly bury something valuable they were transporting, how or why would they be able to carve such things? It seems to me that there simply isn't enough treasure to find or go around, but everyone wants to think they are on the trail of such things.

 

[Ellie Baba]

UncleMatt,

I'll get back to you and answer your questions. I have a full week ahead of me and as soon as I get a break I will respond.

Good train of thought...

Ellie B

 

[UncleMatt]

Sorry, but I don't see an Arabian guy. I see a section of rock wall where chunks have fallen away due to natural erosional processes. Do you have any close up photos of this where you can clearly see chisel marks? Or any sign that this was fabricated by man? No offense, but barring that evidence, I think this is a natural formation.

So Eric,

You are telling me that you cannot see the Arabian guy in the photo (far right)? This time I have singled him out and remember to view him from more of a distance and not real close up. If you do look close up this would be the time to search for the smaller scaled down groups of people. These artists love to create within the creation three fold.

View attachment 958025

Hope this helps everyone interested in learning.

Ellie B.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

I see a man that resembles a viking

 

[sailaway]

The needle on the stone maps is not weavers needle. The roof of the treasure room is flat with a large M that has trailing lower legs and a large V. this room sits on top of the C of coazon word. this C is also part of the 8 in 8-n-P. it also is part of the hyroglyphic in the C 7 O over T D in the Jesuit Tumicocorri mine map. The priest map and the horse maps are like pictures of the area(tetonics). The trail map is the flight of the priest when the Apache were uprising against them.

 

[sgtfda]

Now it all makes sense.

 

[Somero]

So Eric,

You are telling me that you cannot see the Arabian guy in the photo (far right)? This time I have singled him out and remember to view him from more of a distance and not real close up. If you do look close up this would be the time to search for the smaller scaled down groups of people. These artists love to create within the creation three fold.

View attachment 958025

Hope this helps everyone interested in learning.

Ellie B.

So Ellie,

Not telling you I did not see that, I am just concerned that even an "artist" attempting to "enhance" the area in question (let alone create the whole thing) would be in itself a monumental task. Heights don't bother me, however, I for one would not want to hang off that cliff and chisel rock and scaffolding would be a bad idea as well.

Some questions if I may, just to clarify some points.

How many "artists" are you figuring?

Why so many formations?

When do you figure they were made?

How did they create such monumental monuments so high up?


As for the circle I put on your photo, I was pointing out an interesting looking A or D with some other marks. Course they could be natural as well.

One of the reasons I question all the things that people claim to see in rock formations is the ability and motivation of the people who supposedly created them. I see hundreds of posts where people post photos of supposed carvings or inscriptions, and I don't even see so much as a chisel mark, let alone something that has been sculpted. And no one ever seems to ask: how long would it have taken people hundreds of years ago to chisel out what is in the photo? No one seems to ask how people who were just trying to survive would have years to stick around very remote areas with little or no water and food to "carve" all the huge monuments people post. Unless their was some religious significance to a site that would have been shared over generations of people, how or why would that have been something those people were engaged in? I'm not saying monuments don't exist, I just doubt the majority of people who claim to have found such things are correct. Natural formations are just that, though we may try to imagine what we are observing was created by man. Of course it is totally possible that people hundreds of years ago also saw the shapes and forms we do today, and modified or used them as land marks. But the idea that every crack, every shadow, every bore hole, is a man made sign leading to somewhere or something just seems like wishful thinking to me.

Gollum posted that story on his website about the guys who found over 80 pounds of gold for example. Was there a single sculpted rock involved? Were any monuments involved? Nope. Just some simple man made markings which were easily identifiable as such. No one stuck around for years with a chisel and hammer creating monuments the size of an RV to lead people to that treasure. If people were motivated to suddenly bury something valuable they were transporting, how or why would they be able to carve such things? It seems to me that there simply isn't enough treasure to find or go around, but everyone wants to think they are on the trail of such things.

I agree with UncleMatt. IMHO, They would be small and easy to access. Maybe less than a handful of people to make them quickly or enhance a formation, leave it rough looking and move on. Problem with the Superstitions is over the years markers have been destroyed, altered, and even fabricated, so proving something as an authentic "Spanish" marker could be difficult.