The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Ellie Baba]

Some areas never see sunshine

Are you referring to the area that SH is referencing? If so, does this cliff side ever see sunlight? First things first.

Later,

EB

 

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[somehiker]

Ain't it the truth, Frank. But for torch or candle, no light at all.
As with many cliff sides, some does and some does not, EB.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ain't it the truth, Frank. But for torch or candle, no light at all.
As with many cliff sides, some does and some does not, EB.

SH,

Well, there is a solution for this problem, if there is no sun light available to enhance the images. It is a complex procedure and will require a number of GPS way points (that you are most likely not willing to part with). IMHO I would guess that this is not your everyday cache, must be something special about its value/contents. A very clever and difficult site to say the least. First time I have heard about this type of a layout. I am not surprised to find that another technique could have been used and I have thought about the possibility. Would be a fun one to work with.

Take care,

Ellie B

 

[somehiker]

It's not been a problem, EB. And yes,it has all been fun to work with.
But there's no need for GPS co-ords. Wouldn't help much anyways.
Direct sunlight tends to wash the contrast out, just as it does with anything surrounded by similar geology and colour.
Darkness...as in from 1 hr after sunset, to 1 hr before sunrise, also makes both Priest's impossible to see without artificial lighting. I haven't looked, but I would think both would also be quite visible in direct, or near direct moonlight. I can't see the point in creating such things...whatever their purpose or meaning...only to risk not being able to retrace the trail, or follow the directions, because of bad timing. People intelligent enough to create such complex maps, especially for something of great value to them, and leave so little behind in other ways, wouldn't have limited their chances of recovery to only certain days or solar/lunar positions, IMO. They weren't planting corn out there.

Regards:SH.

 

[Ellie Baba]

It's not been a problem, EB. And yes, it has all been fun to work with.

But there's no need for GPS co-ords. Wouldn't help much anyways. The GPS co-ords would help me to determine a line/heading that was designed and built into the site and it never changes.

Direct sunlight tends to wash the contrast out, just as it does with anything surrounded by similar geology and colour. True to a certain point; you just have to be there when the window opens.

Darkness...as in from 1 hr after sunset, to 1 hr before sunrise, also makes both Priest's impossible to see without artificial lighting. I haven't looked, but I would think both would also be quite visible in direct, or near direct moonlight. I can't see the point in creating such things...whatever their purpose or meaning...only to risk not being able to retrace the trail, or follow the directions, because of bad timing. The design for every site is pretty much the same, for each cache that was hidden would never to be seen again until the time is right. People intelligent enough to create such complex maps, especially for something of great value to them, and leave so little behind in other ways, wouldn't have limited their chances of recovery to only certain days or solar/lunar positions, IMO. Let's just say they were not coming back, so they had to leave a system which others in their Group could understand, the complexities are simple once you know the answers. They would know how to work with the code ciphers, monument interpretation, etc. They weren't planting corn out there. True, however, they were planting the future.

That which I was taught took a number of years to grasp. I do not expect others to understand all the ins and outs at this moment. What I do decide to share is based upon what I have learned over a long period of time. They love to use lines as a method of concealment, they always have and that my friend hasn't changed. You learn the rules and only then will you make progress. I will admit; it's a long, slow process.

Take care,

Ellie B

 

[393stroker]

General info: Peralta Stones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ellie Baba]

General info: Peralta Stones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi there 393stroker,

Definitely general information and my opinion for what it's worth... it is their opinion. I am not typically one who will put down any ones theories unless they are life threatening, or I am acting as a teacher/instructor. To each his own as we choose our paths everyday. I will say that I disagree with the information submitted to Wikipedia. I do believe that anyone who spends the time and works hard to come up with a theory should be given an opportunity to state their opinion. What we as individuals perceive differs from one to another and that is why I am interested in understanding any ones' findings. Perspective is a point of view, so what is yours 393?

Thank you for the link,

Ellie B

 

[393stroker]

It seems to me that there is something missing from all the clues that we know so far about the stones. From what I can see by zooming in on them, there looks like smaller micro carvings of numbers and symbols.

 

[Ellie Baba]

It seems to me that there is something missing from all the clues that we know so far about the stones. From what I can see by zooming in on them, there looks like smaller micro carvings of numbers and symbols.

I noticed the markings too. I used different lighting techniques and various types of film to see if they would take on a different appearance. This was back in the day when the Stone Maps were located upstairs in the Mining and Mineral Museum on 15th Ave. and Adams St. I haven't come to any conclusions that would confirm their validity and I placed that project on the back burner. Who knows? They were more of a distraction at that time and I had more important things on my plate to deal with.

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Ecc. 1:9

Later,

Ellie B

 

[somehiker]

It's not been a problem, EB. And yes, it has all been fun to work with.

But there's no need for GPS co-ords. Wouldn't help much anyways. The GPS co-ords would help me to determine a line/heading that was designed and built into the site and it never changes. A line connecting the co-ords of Cincinnati and Picacho pass probably wouldn't change anything either, since the pass is as close as any 19th century member of the KGC ever got to Ellie Gardner's "Heart Mountain".

Direct sunlight tends to wash the contrast out, just as it does with anything surrounded by similar geology and colour. True to a certain point; you just have to be there when the window opens. The window seems to be open anytime there is enough light to see. At least for me it is.

Darkness...as in from 1 hr after sunset, to 1 hr before sunrise, also makes both Priest's impossible to see without artificial lighting. I haven't looked, but I would think both would also be quite visible in direct, or near direct moonlight. I can't see the point in creating such things...whatever their purpose or meaning...only to risk not being able to retrace the trail, or follow the directions, because of bad timing. The design for every site is pretty much the same, for each cache that was hidden would never to be seen again until the time is right. Doesn't look like these guys knew how to do it that way. So for them, the right time might be too late. People intelligent enough to create such complex maps, especially for something of great value to them, and leave so little behind in other ways, wouldn't have limited their chances of recovery to only certain days or solar/lunar positions, IMO. Let's just say they were not coming back, so they had to leave a system which others in their Group could understand, the complexities are simple once you know the answers. They would know how to work with the code ciphers, monument interpretation, etc. That's the trouble with secret groups and their maps. they were so good at keeping secrets, that their fans and followers can't even tell anyone what they are looking for. They weren't planting corn out there. True, however, they were planting the future. What future....or is that also a secret ?


That which I was taught took a number of years to grasp. I do not expect others to understand all the ins and outs at this moment. What I do decide to share is based upon what I have learned over a long period of time. They love to use lines as a method of concealment, they always have and that my friend hasn't changed. You learn the rules and only then will you make progress. I will admit; it's a long, slow process.

Fortunately, I have had no teacher who's knowledge of lines of concealment, code ciphers, and monument interpretation could have been passed on to me.
Had I felt the need to follow such a lengthy process of being taught all these ins and outs, I likely would have grasped myself a copy of Getler and Brewer's "Shadow Of The Sentinal" or "Rebel Gold", since it's all explained and only takes a few hours to read.

Unfortunately, as a result of not having been educated in all things KGC and the Group, and thus having failed to recognize and follow their numerous designs and deceptions, I must have wandered into some other organization's former territory by mistake.


Take care,

Ellie B

Regards:SH.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Somehiker,

I do appreciate the discussion that is taking place and I hope that I can respond in a manner that will be acceptable. I copied our text to a Word document and will answer all of your notations to the best of my ability. I too have not been educated in all things concerning the Group or the KGC and many times I have found myself lacking. Pattern recognition has proven to be one of my better talents as many of my partners and friends can attest. We (our exploration company) have come across a number of depository areas while conducting planned exploration exercises in different areas of the state (AZ). This one fact in of itself has proven over and over that every depository that we have located is tied/linked together with a line. Each depository contains hundreds of lines and each line has a start and end point that is defined on a specific ground location. These "start and end point" locations can only be identified by signs/symbols and monuments that must include witness marks, or basic stand alone signs, as a boot shaped rock, a fake fire pit, a metal post, or a myriad number of other markers. The one trait that they all have in common is they are well hidden and look unnaturally out of place; they do not belong there. Pattern recognition.

I am rambling on once again. Will have that response back to you soon SH.

Later,

EB

 

[somehiker]

EB:

Pattern recognition seems to be one of the talents any treasure hunter would need, since what we seek may only be marked by something barely recognizable as man-made, if marked at all. But what we recognize may be different things entirely. For example, Ellie Gardner and yourself both see an "arrow" to the right of the large heart on the ridge where the "scrapings" were found, whereas I see a "7" very similar to the sevens on the stones. It's too bad the scrapings have been mostly obliterated, possibly during the "Heart Mountain Project".
Similarly, with topographical maps, including the 1900 Florence topo being of no use to me due to their lack of detail, and with satellite/aerial photos also of top-down reference, whereas the majority of stone map references in the field are located on vertical or near vertical surfaces, I also find these media of little use. But I'm not surprised that "Hillbilly" Bob was able to duplicate Bernice McGee's 1973 depiction of the horse on the Florence topo, since both authors failed to understand the mapmaker had merely drawn what he could see from a ground level perspective.

Regards:SH.

 

[Springfield]

Hiker, many have felt your pain, mainly because we weren't able to accept that a group of our predecessors could be brilliant enough to accomplish the things some have given them credit for - namely hiding and securing things of great value almost in plain sight. Even the Great Brewer has left behind him a wake of spectacular failures. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The idea, simplified, is that with access to the most intelligent and motivated minds available, the 'Organization' has the means to stack any deck overwhelmingly in their favor to secure whatever hand they're playing, political or otherwise. Caching valuables is presumably one of their games, at least the one we're following here.

Brewer and his followers have demonstrated one aspect of the caching game quite well - Ellie's 'pattern recognition'. While Ellie seems to treat it as a means to an end, I personally see it as a brilliant layer of security protecting what is hidden. It takes years of careful observation, trial and error and refinement to establish these patterns (of which there are myriad possibilities to begin with). Once established, the pattern doesn't seem to lead to the big prize, however - just more patterns, endless it seems. Red herrings. Fabulous clues. False starts. Deception. Security in the long run - enough to outlive the eager pilgrims at least. We humans are conditioned to gather shiny things - if they line up and point to an 'X', we dig a hole. Chances are, the big shiny thing we want is buried next to the hole under the fresh dirt pile.

Brewer's book is informative, but it doesn't tell you what you want. His second book might have answered some of the questions we all have, but the guy who was going to write it for him died a few years ago. You, like the rest of us, resist conspiracy talk even though we're played like cheap banjos. Nobody can open your eyes but you. Human nature is the key - understanding why you believe what you do.

 

[somehiker]

Some truth there Springfield. And for them who reminisce about the glory days of the old south and the secessionist movement, I sometimes wonder what they really think of those who absconded with and buried the massive contributions which otherwise may have won the war. That the invasion of Mexico had to be abandoned, even while thousands of Confederate volunteers were massed along the Texas border, due to lack of funds, must drive them crazy. Kinda makes you scratch your head, don't it ?

Regards:SH.

 

[Ellie Baba]

EB:

Pattern recognition seems to be one of the talents any treasure hunter would need, since what we seek may only be marked by something barely recognizable as man-made, if marked at all. Ahhh, but their definition of pattern recognition is the key. Town and highway names, place names, mileage data from a certain intersection, cemeteries, the shape of a road, fences and other factors come into play. But what we recognize may be different things entirely. For example, Ellie Gardner and yourself (we are one and the same) both see an "arrow" to the right of the large heart on the ridge where the "scrapings" were found, whereas I see a "7" (where were you located when looking at it? Perspective.) very similar to the sevens on the stones. A very specific viewing corridor was designed and located across the canyon side just east of the "7", a pyramid shaped eye catcher. When you are standing in front of this eye catcher and turn around 180 degrees the 7 will look like an arrow.

It's too bad the scrapings have been mostly obliterated, possibly during the (way before the) "Heart Mountain Project". They drove a bulldozer down the center of the large heart, a result of greed and folly. These idiots were soon evicted by the State Land Dept.

Similarly, with topographical maps, including the 1900 Florence topo being of no use to me due to their lack of detail (pattern recognition does apply and there are plenty of details), and with satellite/aerial photos also of top-down reference, whereas the majority of stone map references in the field are located on vertical or near vertical surfaces, I also find these media of little use (guess what happens if you are standing atop of Grayback, North Butte, the FOG or Battleaxe Mountain, Jim Rose figured that one out, so much for ground level perspective). But I'm not surprised that "Hillbilly" Bob was able to duplicate Bernice McGee's 1973 depiction of the horse on the Florence topo, since both authors failed to understand the mapmaker had merely drawn what he could see from a "ground level perspective" (see above). When HBB found the horse on the Florence Quad he did not know about the McGee article. He thought that I was pulling his leg when I explained to him that someone else had found the horse too. He didn't duplicate the horse because he saw its image hidden in the map; he found it by working the stone maps. I was there with him at his camp in Arkansas when he walked Brian and myself through the process of how he had found the horse. We were more than impressed. Bob Brewer is a good friend and we still communicate; all I can say is we are all just human beings and I understand him more than most. I have a few faults of my own by the way.

Regards:SH.

Hope this helps clear the air somewhat,

Ellie B.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hiker, many have felt your pain, mainly because we weren't able to accept that a group of our predecessors could be brilliant enough to accomplish the things some have given them credit for - namely hiding and securing things of great value almost in plain sight. Even the Great Brewer has left behind him a wake of spectacular failures (from HBBs' perspective not so). But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The idea, simplified, is that with access to the most intelligent and motivated minds available, the 'Organization' has the means to stack any deck overwhelmingly in their favor to secure whatever hand they're playing, political or otherwise. Caching valuables is presumably one of their games, at least the one we're following here (10-4).

Brewer and his followers have demonstrated one aspect of the caching game quite well - Ellie's 'pattern recognition'. While Ellie seems to treat it as a means to an end, I personally see it as a brilliant layer of security protecting what is hidden. It takes years of careful observation, trial and error and refinement to establish these patterns (of which there are myriad possibilities to begin with). Once established, the pattern doesn't seem to lead to the big prize (but it does), however - just more patterns, endless it seems. Red herrings. Fabulous clues. False starts (easy to eliminate). Deception. Security in the long run - enough to outlive the eager pilgrims at least (I am still here). We humans are conditioned to gather shiny things - if they line up and point to an 'X', we dig a hole. Chances are, the big shiny thing we want is buried next to the hole under the fresh dirt pile.

Brewer's book is informative, but it doesn't tell you what you want. His second book might have answered some of the questions we all have, but the guy who was going to write it for him died a few years ago (He still plans to get it out someday soon). You, like the rest of us (resistance is futile), resist conspiracy talk even though we're played like cheap banjos. Nobody can open your eyes but you. Human nature is the key - understanding why you believe what you do.

I appreciate your remarks Springfield,

Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Bold text is mine, EB.

Some truth there Springfield. And for them who reminisce about the glory days of the old south and the secessionist movement, I sometimes wonder what they really think of those who absconded with and buried the massive contributions which otherwise may have won the war. That the invasion of Mexico had to be abandoned, even while thousands of Confederate volunteers were massed along the Texas border, due to lack of funds, must drive them crazy. The Group has been around for a long, long time and they never lived up to their promises regarding the KGC who they bamboozled. Kinda makes you scratch your head, don't it ?

Regards:SH.

Hopefully you can start to see where HBB is coming from.

Later,

Ellie B

 

[Springfield]

From EB

... Once established, the pattern doesn't seem to lead to the big prize (but it does)

Brewer's book is informative, but it doesn't tell you what you want. His second book might have answered some of the questions we all have, but the guy who was going to write it for him died a few years ago (He still plans to get it out someday soon) ...

Unfortunatey, the proof is in the pudding. Until that proof is revealed, about all we have is an intriguing set of circumstantial evidence-like clues. A convincing case can be made and defended to 'prove' the evidence, but without the shiny things, the 'proof'has to be taken on faith. The powers that be must enjoy the game. In any case, I for one am looking forward to what you have to say about all this when your book comes out.

Speaking of books, it's my understanding that the second HBB book got snagged when a strong Jesus spin was planned for it. This approach didn't set well for some. Like the Founding Fathers, relgion didn't mix well with spirituality and politics for truth-seekers, it seems.

 

[Ellie Baba]

I've been quiet as we have been working in the field and had a number of excellent results as pictured below. The JJ Saguaro Map that was posted earlier had a number of surprises for us. As I have stated on many occasions take your photographs first before moving anything. GPS the middle of the map and measure the distance of one object to another as all maps must be to scale (the scale was hidden). It is possible that there may be more information inscribed on the surface of the steel plate. We haven't cleaned it as of yet. We located the head as described and took a slew of photographs and we found this early the next morning. Note the two individuals depicted under the eagle's jaw, most likely the artists posing with their work. As most of you know the eagle is represented on the stone map horse's rump (wings), the Brotherhood of St. John (note the cross hanging down the individuals robe standing on the left). I cannot share with you as of yet what this bird of prey is looking at. Hopefully, soon as we can find the time to hike on up there and check it out I will have some good news. Later, Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,

I wanted to share an important image that the Horse Tablet and Eagle SARA have in common. The left upper corner of the stone map depicts the number"5". Notice the faint scratched line attached at the bottom of the five and connects at the top of the bowl (see photo #1). Photo #2 comparison provided.



The same type/style of this symbol can be found on the Eagle's head. Second photo is enhanced to identify symbol. I also highlighted cross (in blue).



Now if you will, imagine this symbol in a reverse image; You would be able to identify the number "7" on the top of a heart. I had often wondered where this symbol would reveal itself.

More later,

Ellie B