The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[UncleMatt]

If I am shown a photo of a rock formation that resembles an animal, I look at the surface texture of the large surfaces. Do they show signs of alteration? If there aren't a lot of chisel marks, that means the person creating that monument would have had to smooth the surface by hand. No 6.5 inch grinders, or outlets to plug them in to, so that means they would have had to use other stones to do that job. A very time consuming task, I assure you, ON TOP OF the sculpting activity itself. And that brings up another point: are there any signs of smoothing stones or any other tools around these monuments? Any broken stones, pottery, bones, dumps, or any other signs that would be left behind by a person or group spending that kind of time near the monument? If not, that introduces more doubts...

 

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[Somero]

Another important thing to look into is the overall history of the Superstitions, actual history, not the hearsay about large Spanish family's mining. Just some good general reading on the overall history of the Southwest you can come up with some conclusions as to why the Superstitions had no major incursions until the late 1800's. Smaller expeditions were a possibility prior, but doubtful that any large scale mining operation was taking place during Spanish or Mexican time frames.

Since there is no Presidio or Spanish/Mexican settlement close to the Superstitions the conclusion would be no major mines. Basing this on the fact's about the Chino copper mine Chino Mine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ( I know a Wiki link, it's brief but more can be found online by Googling) and other information surrounding Tubac, Tumacacori, and other Missions and Presidios in Northern Mexico. Combined with the fact of needing to push into California to keep the Russians and other European powers from intruding into New Spain.

 

[markmar]

Hi sailaway

You wrote :

The needle on the stone maps is not weavers needle. I agree . The roof of the treasure room is flat with a large M that has trailing lower legs and a large V. this room sits on top of the C of coazon word. this C is also part of the 8 in 8-n-P We need an explanation of these statements , it also is part of the hyroglyphic in the C 7 O over T D in the Jesuit Tumicocorri mine map Here you did a mistake . The letters in the Tumacacori map are these : C S / D over T / D . The priest map and the horse maps are like pictures of the area(tetonics) I agree . The trail map is the flight ( methafor ? )of the priest when the Apache were uprising against them.

 

[Ellie Baba]

A picture says a thousand words.



One of my favorites and a very unique example of ancient animated shadow landscape art. You people are the first to ever see this type of art form, ever. After your mind enters this fantasy dreamland you will begin to see so many people celebrating around these two lovers. This monument was made for them and we do not yet know who they were, but we wish we could have been there to cheer them on. Were they so different than we ourselves in this day and age? Now I will explain the special treat if you haven't already recognized this awesome technique; Look at the bottom-right 1/3 of the photograph: can you see him? A man the size of a giant is crawling up the slope extracting himself from the steep valley below. Notice how his face has morphed at least two times. If you were to watch him on site, in a small time span he would slowly turn his head and move. Notice the face attached to his outstretched arm, his elbow bent to help pull himself up. I will not give away any other secrets.

Remember the key to viewing this type of art form is to put a little distance between the photograph and your self. Getting to close to the image distorts it.

I do not have the time right now to answer all of your questions, however this example should be sufficient to validate the art forms existence and a number of techniques.

I'll get back with more later.

Ellie B

 

[UncleMatt]

Do you have any close up photos showing tool marks on what you see in this photo? I see no evidence to validate anything in this photo. If this is an "art form", then there should be evidence left by the artist(s), right? Using your imagination to "see" things is fun, but doesn't validate or prove anything. True monuments will have evidence of being fashioned by man. I encourage you to post close up photos to show us that evidence, if it exists.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Do you have any close up photos showing tool marks on what you see in this photo? I see no evidence to validate anything in this photo. If this is an "art form", then there should be evidence left by the artist(s), right? Using your imagination to "see" things is fun, but doesn't validate or prove anything. True monuments will have evidence of being fashioned by man. I encourage you to post close up photos to show us that evidence, if it exists.

This is a true monument fashioned by man. The numbers inside the eye socket are a dead give away.



I hope that this example helps to accurately portray methods used by man to create this art form.

Ellie B

 

[UncleMatt]

Sorry, even with the photo at full magnification, no numbers are visible to me in the "eye". This looks like a rock formation undergoing normal erosional processes, nothing more. And I'm still not seeing any chisel marks...

 

[Ellie Baba]

Sorry, even with the photo at full magnification, no numbers are visible to me in the "eye". This looks like a rock formation undergoing normal erosional processes, nothing more. And I'm still not seeing any chisel marks...

You will not find any chisel marks. We had an archaeologist write us a report years ago and their opinion centered on the fact that no metal tools were used. A technique was developed by a number of other civilizations that utilized a tool made of a harder stone and was used to create the depressions on the host rock. As the sun moves across the sky the depressions produced the image in the form of a shadow, somewhat like an intaglio. These art forms were not made for the uninitiated to recognize. I have spent 30 years thus far working with these art forms and they use the same techniques as found on the 1900-02 Florence Quads and the Stone Maps.

Oh, by the way, the "Treasure Hunter of the Year" award will be handed out on the 15th of March. I have not yet learned where this will take place, but I will find out sometime today.

Have a great day!

Ellie B

 

[UncleMatt]

I understand, they probably used the same methods as the Incas when it come to working stone: one stone used to pound another. But even this would leave clues on the site, such as broken stone tools and lots of rock chips. I would be greatly interested in reading any reports published by reputable archeologists about this "art form", so please share them with us if you have them. I am also again curious as to what the theory is about their motivations for putting so much time into large monuments that were remotely located. Few people would ever see them, so it wouldn't be for political purposes. Is religion perhaps the reason? Or what exactly?

 

[Somero]

Some questions if I may, just to clarify some points.

How many "artists" are you figuring?

Why so many formations?

When do you figure they were made?

How did they create such monumental monuments so high up?


As for the circle I put on your photo, I was pointing out an interesting looking A or D with some other marks. Course they could be natural as well.

Guess my questions are not worthy of answers

 

[sgtfda]

It's not all that complicated. The map show natural, man made waypoints. Most are natural.

 

[UncleMatt]

I agree that existing natural formations were very likely used as landmarks for trails and other things. Its when people start claiming they were created by man that I tend to seek more evidence. And some of the claims made about natural formations tend to stretch the envelope of believability.

 

[EE THr]

I agree that existing natural formations were very likely used as landmarks for trails and other things. Its when people start claiming they were created by man that I tend to seek more evidence. And some of the claims made about natural formations tend to stretch the envelope of believability.

I agree.

However, on this very Website, I have seen photos (which I believe were unaltered, due to having some professional image editing experience myself) that are so obvious and recognizable, that they are extremely convincing as to being, large, complex, carefully man made works.

However, the same question is equally obvious---why would anyone spend so much time and effort, including the tremendous amount of logistics required for a special team of people skilled in this kind of fabrication, just to mark a location (or instructions to a treasure, if one even exists at these types of colossal monuments).

While just looking over many of these posted examples, and enjoying the sight of (what I assume to be) the works of men, the overall impression I ended up with was that there was a story, of sorts, being told with them. But not necessarily of treasure or secrets of any kind.

It struck me that these appeared to be telling a story of people. Each group of monuments pictorially describing a regional group of people, and saying, "This is who we are, and what we do, and what our philosophy is. We are the people in this region. And you are now entering our territory.

As for how much time it would take to form this type of giant groups of monuments, I would say a lot of time. It would appear to me that these which I am talking about were made over very long periods, adding items or groups of items at different times, as their culture expanded and changed.

The problem with this "hunch" (there isn't enough evidence to call it a theory), is that there is no "official" record of anyone being around, or having the necessary technology (even if somewhat primitive), where these monuments have been found, for such a long period as would allow for all this to fit into. I'm not referring specifically to the Superstitions, as these have been found in many other places, and very far apart at that---Although it seems that the farther apart, the more different is the story described by the giant monuments.

The only explanation for these (if they are in fact man made), considering the time frame and (what seems to me to be the) apparent purpose, would have the troubling consequence of being contradictory to Biblical History. And that is a huge problem, because it seems that official archeology has, as one of it's purposes, the job of trying to invalidate anything contradictory to Biblical History. Interestingly enough, this purpose has been in effect World wide, regardless of the popular religion of the area.

This has been shown time after time, when Out Of Place Artifacts have been found, and other contradicting archeological evidence has been discovered.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of this concerted false-invalidation is occurring about the Superstitions, as well.

My best advice to anyone would be to think for yourself!

 

[sgtfda]

I hid my treasure. Damn if ill make obvious marker to the location. That was why the stone maps were made. There is a easy code on the stones and they are not as old as you may think. The code give away the time frame.

 

[Bavarian Joe]

Looks like a penguin to me...

I'm starting to think this whole thing's some sort of Rorshacht test. One sees what they want to see.

 

[Somero]

Lets talk about the elephant in the room.

I don't think Native or even Ancient Native people carved this one, most likely mother natures work, IMHO.

 

[cactusjumper]

Eric,

IMHO, there is no better artist than Mother Nature.

Take care,

Joe

 

[elgatodelnoche]

I had two non-believers who wanted to see this rock art personally. The jokes and laughing didn't stop until we reached the area. Soon silence and wonder began to take over and now they want to see even more. They cannot understand why they never had seen these images before, they lived in this area for many years. The four of us were all recognizing the exact same images. Turns out that Lisa is a natural and has no trouble separating the real art forms from pareidolia. The crescent moon always works its magic and the desire to learn more about this art form takes hold.

It is simply amazing!

Ellie B

Do not mistake me for an unbeliever. I am very much a believer! I am just incredibly frustrated that I cannot see what others see!!! I stare for hours at the pictures in this thread and others looking and looking until my eyeballs hurt. I keep asking myself "What is wrong with me?" and "Why can I not see this?"

You have my undying respect for being able to see and follow and reason your way through this. I become hopelessly lost as I try to follow this thread. Please do not think that I disrespect anyone for their views here. To the very last of you, every one here is a better mind than I.

 

[deducer]

Do not mistake me for an unbeliever. I am very much a believer! I am just incredibly frustrated that I cannot see what others see!!! I stare for hours at the pictures in this thread and others looking and looking until my eyeballs hurt. I keep asking myself "What is wrong with me?" and "Why can I not see this?"

You have my undying respect for being able to see and follow and reason your way through this. I become hopelessly lost as I try to follow this thread. Please do not think that I disrespect anyone for their views here. To the very last of you, every one here is a better mind than I.

I don't think you should be frustrated. Not everyone sees the same thing, and if you read some of the posts carefully, not everyone is taking this seriously, me included. There are quite a few posts that are fully tongue-in-cheek.

 

[somehiker]

Throughout the world there are many rocks and even mountains named for what people thought they looked like or otherwise reminded them of.
And there is no reason why someone would not use such a long lasting feature as a marker or waypoint on a map. Especially if it pertained to traditions or beliefs close to home.

Here are some examples of rocks which might be suitable for such a purpose:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/duckmarx/galleries/72157631258745682/