The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[coazon de oro]

Hal,

Hang in there! If your not considering the provenance of the map your thoughts and solution is as good good as the next guy's. There have been dozens of people who have offered solutions to Travis's stone carvings with the same results.

I hesitate to offer this information as it is simply my word. Travis authored a manuscript and it has not been made public but Clarence Mitchell (aka Travis Marlowe) follows the story line in his book fairly close. Travis allegedly found the horse-priest stone first. He then studied that stone and returned a year later and dug up the trial maps and the heart insert.

In Travis's manuscript he includes around a hundred treasure symbols and one is the symbol of the flying bird sign (3) in conjunction with the E (Near the back legs of the horse). He defines it as meaning change direction. He writes that after failing to initially locate the trail maps (on his second trip) he reversed the direction and walla, He figured out that he had to reverse the horse-priest map and with other information on the map he was able to dig up the trail maps. (BTW, Mitchell tried to improve the story in his version by taking into account the magnetic variation). The actual story has additional detail and certainly stretches credibilty to most people but it makes sense in his attempt to create a story of finding the stones that he carved.

I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm just saying that until all the stones are turned over, you shouldn't get stampeded.

Garry

Howdy Garry,

I have heard a lot of good things about you, I never imagined you for a troll.

As I understand, your research, or documents are mostly based on the opinions of others, and your witnesses have proved to be unreliable, by Mike M. So your conclusion is really just your opinion is it not?

Please prove me wrong, and show just one document that is not the opinion of someone else, that would just hint the PSM's as the work of Travis.

If they were the work of Travis, they would not lead to anything of real value, would they, so why encourage Hal in trying to figure them out?

Homar

 

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[cactusjumper]

Homar,

"If they were the work of Travis, they would not lead to anything of real value, would they, so why encourage Hal in trying to figure them out?"

Personally, I see the value in what Garry is doing. If you get enough people, with differing perspectives, working on the same problems, you have a better chance of coming to a new conclusion/truth. Like Garry, Hal may find new evidence that changes accepted history.

Take care,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

"If they were the work of Travis, they would not lead to anything of real value, would they, so why encourage Hal in trying to figure them out?"

Personally, I see the value in what Garry is doing. If you get enough people, with differing perspectives, working on the same problems, you have a better chance of coming to a new conclusion/truth. Like Garry, Hal may find new evidence that changes accepted history.

Take care,

Joe

Howdy Joe,

I am well aware of Garry's hope, that someone find evidence of Travis T's involvement in the creation of the PSM's. That alone tells you a lot about he's conclusion.

However, Hal maintains Jesuit involvement, and aerial photography. He has created a list of skills that are beyond of Travis's capabilities. Extreme knowledge of the Superstitions would not point to Travis, nor mathematical, mapping, flying, aerial photography, or any other skill that Hal can come up with.

At least Hal believes they lead to something of great value, and not just fakes.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Homar:

I consider Gary anything but a troll. He has done a fine job of gathering documents of all kinds which pertain to both the LDM and the Stone Maps.
He has gone out of his way to create a website to share them with the rest of us, allowing us to quote and use them verbatim as we wish.
It should be no surprise that he holds opinions, as we all do about both topics and shares his thoughts when he feels the need to.
Although I rarely agree with him, I hope he will continue to do so.
None of us know for sure that the stones lead to anything which would be of great value.
What I have "nailed", as Frank has so eloquently put it, is a relatively small area within the range where everything shown on the stones can be seen with one's own eyes. Just as the maker of the original maps could see it, and where he could see it.

Regards:SH.

 

[wrmickel1]

Homar:

I consider Gary anything but a troll. He has done a fine job of gathering documents of all kinds which pertain to both the LDM and the Stone Maps.
He has gone out of his way to create a website to share them with the rest of us, allowing us to quote and use them verbatim as we wish.
It should be no surprise that he holds opinions, as we all do about both topics and shares his thoughts when he feels the need to.
Although I rarely agree with him, I hope he will continue to do so.
None of us know for sure that the stones lead to anything which would be of great value.
What I have "nailed", as Frank has so eloquently put it, is a relatively small area within the range where everything shown on the stones can be seen with one's own eyes. Just as the maker of the original maps could see it, and where he could see it.

Regards:SH.

So Somehiker

We do think alike after all, Then you believe the symbols are geological places in the Sups!

Wrmickel1

 

[cactusjumper]

Homar,

I don't believe Garry is looking for anything more than the true history of the entire mystery, in all of its permutations and side roads. Not many of us have gone to the expense and trouble that Garry has. He has traveled across the country searching for documents that pertain to the entire story, as well as looking up Travis' family and getting to know them.

Got to give credit where credit is due.

Take care,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar:

I consider Gary anything but a troll. He has done a fine job of gathering documents of all kinds which pertain to both the LDM and the Stone Maps.
He has gone out of his way to create a website to share them with the rest of us, allowing us to quote and use them verbatim as we wish.
It should be no surprise that he holds opinions, as we all do about both topics and shares his thoughts when he feels the need to.
Although I rarely agree with him, I hope he will continue to do so.
None of us know for sure that the stones lead to anything which would be of great value.
What I have "nailed", as Frank has so eloquently put it, is a relatively small area within the range where everything shown on the stones can be seen with one's own eyes. Just as the maker of the original maps could see it, and where he could see it.

Regards:SH.

Howdy Wayne,

I don't consider Garry as a troll, this guy was used to show that I was making fun of the fact that he stated twice that the PSM's were carved by Travis without stating it as just his opinion.

I too give him a lot of credit for saving everything related to the PSM's, and the LDM regardless of what others may think.

In my opinion, if the Superstitions were to be opened for mineral entry, the mine would be claimed the next day, or two. It is also my opinion that there is evidence, and documentation that shows without a shadow of a doubt, just what the PSM's lead to, and proves that the PSM's are neither Jesuit, or Travis made. All this in Garry's possession.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

sgtfda, somehiker

Our eyes lie to us every and everyday. I would argue more so in the Superstitions, but that is another topic. Someone with sgtfda's professional background would understand that fact and obviously set the bar higher than most for what one considers to be actual proof or evidence of an ability to read the stone map cipher. So, I am guessing that somehiker is sitting on some incredible find. I sincerely hope that is so, but as everything and anything to be found in the SWA is protected, why not share some visuals and an interpretation of that visual. If it is a "3", will you explain how it is used and if you can, please explain the positioning of your number "3". That is, why are they spaced and angled as they are on the stones? and in your solution?

Cropping an image helps if your concerned about disclosing somehiker's locations. Oh, and yes the location. Will either of you explain why that particular location in relation to the stones?

These are very specific questions that, in my mind, can make or break ones ideas about the stones.

It is obvious that I am skeptical, but I would drop my ideas in a heart beat for conclusive proof. About that, my idea of conclusive has not been shared here, by anyone. I am not even convinced that my own ideas lead to something of value other than that of a historical value.

Hal:

Frank does indeed set the bar much higher. It's one of the reasons, along with the skills he has developed and his basic honesty and sense of honor, for my decision to bring him aboard. He has seen some of the physical evidence and has partly based his opinion on that. His assessment of one feature is what made me take the time to examine some of the photos I had taken while on my way to and from that particular feature during the last couple of years. As I have already mentioned, three were of a location which I had skirted on all of my visits to the area. I have since found more which give me about 270deg of views. This gives a better perspective of what I can expect to see up close during our next visit, as well as to plan for a legal and comprehensive examination of all that might be visible and accessible.

I have reasons of course, as to why I find the area suitable for what the stones represent.
But I can't say what these reasons are at this time, since that would be saying too much.

Not one of the stones is aligned to a cardinal direction, although when standing in front of the "E" you are also facing east. The 3's are explained by the "formula" at the bottom right of the lower trail stone, and while I must keep that card face-down for the time being, I will say that a change in direction is not likely what the maker had foremost in mind, IMO. The terrain is rugged, and many changes in direction are required whilst exploring it, mostly by having no other choice.

Regards:SH.

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

I don't believe Garry is looking for anything more than the true history of the entire mystery, in all of its permutations and side roads. Not many of us have gone to the expense and trouble that Garry has. He has traveled across the country searching for documents that pertain to the entire story, as well as looking up Travis' family and getting to know them.

Got to give credit where credit is due.

Take care,

Joe

I am not discrediting Garry in any way. I just asked for one single document that would make Travis the carver without relying on opinions. It's facts that make up the true history.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Howdy Wayne,

I don't consider Garry as a troll, this guy was used to show that I was making fun of the fact that he stated twice that the PSM's were carved by Travis without stating it as just his opinion.

I too give him a lot of credit for saving everything related to the PSM's, and the LDM regardless of what others may think.

In my opinion, if the Superstitions were to be opened for mineral entry, the mine would be claimed the next day, or two. It is also my opinion that there is evidence, and documentation that shows without a shadow of a doubt, just what the PSM's lead to, and proves that the PSM's are neither Jesuit, or Travis made. All this in Garry's possession.

Homar

Homar

OK, I understand now Homar.
And I agree that the documents published by Gary do contain good evidence for a number of critical conclusions as to their origin and provenience.
But I still think it possible that the stones were made by Jesuits who, as "property managers", designed, constructed and administered what I think is out there.
All the evidence I have seems to point in that direction. Anything else seems to be a distraction, or a blind alley.

Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

So Somehiker

We do think alike after all, Then you believe the symbols are geological places in the Sups!

Wrmickel1

Not quite Mick. More like scars on the landscape.

 

[coazon de oro]

Sgtfda

Why I would take'm and latter them up and make motor boat sounds with them!
But I would not tell! Ok what you want to know!

Wrmickel1

Hey Blondie,

Motor boat sounds come from the back of the boat. I hope I'm getting the wrong picture here.

Homar

 

[sgtfda]

Wayne check your pm I think I found what your seeking.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal:

Frank does indeed set the bar much higher. It's one of the reasons, along with the skills he has developed and his basic honesty and sense of honor, for my decision to bring him aboard. He has seen some of the physical evidence and has partly based his opinion on that. His assessment of one feature is what made me take the time to examine some of the photos I had taken while on my way to and from that particular feature during the last couple of years. As I have already mentioned, three were of a location which I had skirted on all of my visits to the area. I have since found more which give me about 270deg of views. This gives a better perspective of what I can expect to see up close during our next visit, as well as to plan for a legal and comprehensive examination of all that might be visible and accessible.

I have reasons of course, as to why I find the area suitable for what the stones represent.
But I can't say what these reasons are at this time, since that would be saying too much.

Not one of the stones is aligned to a cardinal direction, although when standing in front of the "E" you are also facing east. The 3's are explained by the "formula" at the bottom right of the lower trail stone, and while I must keep that card face-down for the time being, I will say that a change in direction is not likely what the maker had foremost in mind, IMO. The terrain is rugged, and many changes in direction are required whilst exploring it, mostly by having no other choice.

Regards:SH.

Thank you for explaining what you could and why you can not with certain things. Your honesty is appreciated. When you are ready to share your "conclusive proof" , I would enjoy seeing it.
Back to scale and positioning for a moment.... it is an important topic.

Here is another example of a sign/symbol that is found on the stones.


View attachment 804324


And here is the same symbol "applied" to the Horse Stone. Seems that "dot" may be something important?


View attachment 804325
​

I am not sure about the "A" in the red box due to the wear, so I will not attempt to read it, but it is not difficult to see these inscriptions for what they are.

 

[somehiker]

Hal:

That peculiar "A" was discussed at length in this topic thread... Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining ? View topic - Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps
The first post regarding the "A" can be found on page 19.
The only thing that I could add to what I offered in that conversation, is that from that point on the ground it's all uphill.
Indeed, the small hole in the horse's hindquarter is important. It's the same one as that at the end of the large curved "F" like marking.
The real deal is large as well..... and you do have to climb to the next level to see it...

View attachment 100_0751 F.bmp

Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal:

That peculiar "A" was discussed at length in this topic thread... Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining ? View topic - Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps
The first post regarding the "A" can be found on page 19.
The only thing that I could add to what I offered in that conversation, is that from that point on the ground it's all uphill.
Indeed, the small hole in the horse's hindquarter is important. It's the same one as that at the end of the large curved "F" like marking.
The real deal is large as well..... and you do have to climb to the next level to see it...

View attachment 804346

Regards:SH.

I am not sure what it is that we should be seeing in that image? Not trying to be obtuse, but can you help with some type of highlighting or an explanation that doesn't leave one guessing?

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

 

[JWils]

Hal,

Your right except you need to use the third 3 which is on the hoof of the Horse. Then you will have triangulation. Points to the back of the Horse on the tablet. Charles Kenworthy took $13M out after he figured the triangulation in 83'. Look it up. Keep in mind the Horse tablet : is a different location then the Priest tablet. The Heart or insert only applies to the Priest Tablet. I'm not positive but the Trail tablet may apply to the both which are both separate and are in separate locations.

 

[somehiker]

I am not sure what it is that we should be seeing in that image? Not trying to be obtuse, but can you help with some type of highlighting or an explanation that doesn't leave one guessing?

View attachment 100_0751 Fb.bmp

It's the uppermost marking of a series which matches those on the lower trail map.
This one is at the base of the last tier of the mountain. This was taken from a distant vantage point where the entire set can be seen all in a line.
I've previously posted other shots of the group of markings, as well as separate ones of the "teepee".
There is a cave where the dot is, similar to a grotto. I've included part of it in this crop. Pedro's grotto perhaps ?
It's big enough to have conducted a service within.

Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Absolutely !
And obviously I have to be careful of what I say, but you've seen both the "E" and the "3"s as they are on the stones.
How the 2 (3)s on the Horse Stone are replicated on the Priest Stone, and once again on the lower Trail Stone....all with directional offsets.
He had good reason to do it like that and used perception and visual perspective,as your own eyes have seen, but not scale.

Best:Wayne

somehiker,
If the artist was observing what was before him, why the differences in what you are comparing? It is similar, yes, but no match. Why not inscribe the stones exactly the way we see things in your photograph as opposed to just something similar?

View attachment 804687
​