The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Springfield]

While I believe there is something of great value concealed in the Gila/Salt vicinity, my logic tells me it was here before the Europeans (YES), not brought by them (just a few valuable religious artifacts). I put little faith in either the LDM or the stone maps (they are one and the same) - I think they're diversions (very subtle ones at that). Of course, I could be wrong and am open to convincing explanations of either or both legends, but frankly, I doubt that will be the case (after reading my book and seeing the evidence submitted you will be able to comprehend the truth). I hope your theories are laid out for readers to judge the evidence for themselves (without a doubt). The pareidolia-based evidence (the documentation for this type {SARA} of rock art is evolving as we speak) is interesting but very tenuous evidence, IMO.

Remember Ellie, evidence, especially of the circumstantial type, is not proof. 'Truth' is reserved for the privileged or the fortunate. Nearly all humans must settle for 'belief' instead. I'm looking forward to your book, and I'm hoping to find something to believe re the Gila/Salt mysteries. I personally relish verifiable facts and multiple unexplainable related coincidences.

By the way, the provenance and history of the stone maps is so terribly questionable and corrupted, IMO, that they may well be a waste of one's valuable time. Same goes for the LDM legend.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hal, yer opening up a huge can of worms there. The rules were meant for the mission priest only.

Jose

 

[Hal Croves]

"By the way, the provenance and history of the stone maps is so terribly questionable and corrupted, IMO, that they may well be a waste of one's valuable time."

I think that even if something is found based on the maps, in the end, you may be correct. Any discovery in the SWA would be heavily regulated. So, where does that leave us? Learning the name(s) and their motivation for creating the stones would be a great consolation prize. I believe (I bet) that it is possible to deduce the name(s) if one made a list of all the skills and traits (personality) needed to create the stones (even if you consider the stones to be a hoax). When that collective list is long enough, I would be willing to bet that the name(s) and date of creation become obvious. Disclaimer: this is based on the belief that the stone maps pertain to the Superstitions.
cactusjumper nailed what I believe to be the most critical of these skills. I understand this to mean someone who has been on the ground, exploring and documenting locations in the SWA. That person may or may not have been familiar with topographic maps and or aerial photography of the SWA.

1. An intimate knowledge of the Superstitions.

Here is my contribution. Real or some hoax, the author used the system of treasure symbols. How they were applied to the stones is open to interpretation, but they were used. Who had access to the system and when would it have been made available to the public? Before 1948, who would have had accessed the system?

2. A complete understanding of the use of "Treasure Symbols".

?

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, yer opening up a huge can of worms there. The rules were meant for the mission priest only.

Jose

I dont think that anyone would mind. It is a translation and has been around for some time. But it does explain the rules. Their rules.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Elle,
Do you have a copy of: Commentary on the Rules of the Society of Jesus - The Summary of the Constitutions, The Common Rules, The Rules of Modesty - By August Coemans, S.J - For the use of Ours only 1942?
I will send it if you have not had the chance to read it. General comments on poverty, beginning on page 182, Very insightful.

Hi Hal,

No, I do not have a copy.

Thanks in advance,

EB

 

[Ellie Baba]

EB

I agree 95% with you and I appreciate your work . I find you wrong ( IMO ) to the " R - rock " monument . What is the source which made you to believe how exist this monument ?
IMO , the word " R " on the map is only a ground outline .

Marius

The horse of the Holy Faith (Sara Monument) gave us a heading and distance figures. After plotting the compass heading and distance provided these directions led us straight to the R-rock Sara Monument. At first we did not know what we would find there so we started taking photographs of everything in sight for a number of years at different hours both day and night. Once we had discovered the symbols we did not understand what some of them were implying. I can tell you this much...this is the fourth stone map. Without this information one cannot solve the Stone Maps.

The letter "R" is far more than a ground outline as it is a primary key to the Florence Quads solution! Never assume that you are more intelligent than the Ancients for history is their playground and they have way more experience then any of us.

EB

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,



In response to Joe,

Hal stated; Cactusjumper nailed what I believe to be the most critical of these skills. I understand this to mean someone who has been on the ground, exploring and documenting locations in the SWA. That person may or may not have been familiar with topographic maps and or aerial photography of the SWA.

I truly wish that I could tell you who they were! The book documents this very fact. These people were very familiar with topographic maps the same as Frey Marcos and Father Kino. The other important factor is that all of them including my team have been all over the same ground where they walked or rode on horseback.

The critical skills include breaking these codes, following their directions and interpreting their signs which do in fact include many treasure signs and symbols. I have had to involve some very intelligent people with some very heavy math skills dealing with the "golden mean" and how to use it as dictated by the Sara and the Stone Maps. This information will be explained step by step in my book. This my friends is a very complicated treasure quest. I have found it quite necessary to use other people's knowledge as I do not possess all of the knowledge and skills needed to break the codes and decipher the Sara. I have one of the best research teams under the sun!

Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Springfield stated; By the way, the provenance and history of the stone maps is so terribly questionable and corrupted, IMO, that they may well be a waste of one's valuable time. Same goes for the LDM legend.

When I became involved with the LDM I believed then that it was a total waste of time. If it hadn't been for my Father and so many of the old timers I would not have cared.

That was back in 1983 and I have made it my life's work. If for one minute I were to conclude the LDM and the Stone Maps were a waste of time I would have dropped this quest long before now. In fact I had given up twice (or so I thought). No my friends no waste of time here.

EB

 

[johnmark29020]

What makes everyone so sure that the ldm and the stones are connected. I keep wondering one thing. If the map and the treasure are ancient,then why didnt the peraltas decipher the land marks themselves. I know thats a newbie question. Also i read a article online that suggests that julia thomas searched the north west part of the sups on her initial trip. That made me wonder what info did she posssess that made her look there first. Ofcourse the article implys that the ldm is a mine called the black queen. If anyone would like to read it. I have a copy. Lastly. The knight pricess pic has a dragon shadow. What would a royal statue combined with a dragon shadow symbolize. What do you folks think.

 

[sgtfda]

EB

Who has more fun than a thunder on a quest.

 

[markmar]

EB

My opinion is how you will can not to solve the stone maps for the moment . You have much enthusiasm and you have start to make mistakes . You have found a big rock with some outlines which looks like a princess , numbers , dragon , etc. , you have give it a name and you claim how you have found another stone map .
How you found this rock ? Who gave the name " Sara monument " to this rock ? Exist a record or a map which refered to where is this monument ?
I don't know if I am more inteligent than the ancients , but my opinion is how in this era the people are more inteligent .
The stones maps was not made for inteligent people . Was made for innocent people .

I want to tell you something which will help you to solve the stones map . The author selected the ground outlines which match with sings and symbols to confuse the " cunning " researchers . Follow the clues which left Peralta and Waltz , use all the stone maps and with little luck maybe you find the treasure .

Marius

 

[Springfield]

Springfield stated; By the way, the provenance and history of the stone maps is so terribly questionable and corrupted, IMO, that they may well be a waste of one's valuable time. Same goes for the LDM legend.

When I became involved with the LDM I believed then that it was a total waste of time. If it hadn't been for my Father and so many of the old timers I would not have cared.

That was back in 1983 and I have made it my life's work. If for one minute I were to conclude the LDM and the Stone Maps were a waste of time I would have dropped this quest long before now. In fact I had given up twice (or so I thought). No my friends no waste of time here.

EB

Perhaps my language was inappropriate - if so, I apologize. To clarify: without proprietary information, I personally would not make this quest, or any quest, my life's work. The informational database here is too polluted due to corruption by so many players - unfortunately including Tumlinson with the stones and everything pertaining to Waltz' alleged activities.

That said, I did devote 20 years of my own life to solving a 'treasure' challenge. I wouldn't have spent the effort except that the information I received was proprietary and totally uncorrupted. Even so, it took two decades to achieve closure. There was no payoff, but we finally found what we were seeking. Closure is important for goal-oriented, fact-based people like me (I'm an engineer). It allowed me to dust myself off and walk away from it all and on to other things. During this time, I got involved with a second enigma quite similar to the Gila/Salt mysteries, and that's when my true life's education began. I'm following this forum category to glean information I might use here in NM, even though I know I'll never answer the questions I have. And I don't really care - I'm not married to it.

You are in a position I don't envy - your life's work may solve the AZ mysteries, but you'll never know for sure.

 

[Ellie Baba]

EB

Who has more fun than a thunder on a quest.

Lightning striking someone in the noggin? One of my better ideas...have you driven a Ford lately?

EB

 

[sgtfda]

Treasure hunter. Thumb to big for the iPhone keyboard

Back in the 70's I was hit by lightning at a Pennsylvania campground. Guess it was a warning

 

[Ellie Baba]

What makes everyone so sure that the ldm and the stones are connected (that is a primary issue, not everyone agrees). I keep wondering one thing. If the map and the treasure are ancient,then why didnt the peraltas decipher the land marks themselves (they did not possess the knowledge). I know thats a newbie question (you are allowed to ask questions on this forum). Also i read a article online that suggests that julia thomas searched the north west part of the sups on her initial trip. That made me wonder what info did she posssess that made her look there first (it has been thought that Jacob had given her this information before his death). Of course the article implys that the ldm is a mine called the black queen (actually the Bull Dog Mine IMO). If anyone would like to read it. I have a copy. Lastly. The knight pricess pic has a dragon shadow. What would a royal statue combined with a dragon shadow symbolize (as Springfield pointed out pareidolia is left to ones own interpretation). What do you folks think.

Johnmark,

I have also seen other figures of royalty in the depository area from different periods of history including the Aztecs; again this my own interpretation although my children will defend me as they were the ones to discover them. I believe that the Sara monuments depict a heck of a lot more information then just clues. They are telling us about the great legends of our past.



Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Perhaps my language was inappropriate - if so, I apologize. To clarify: without proprietary information, I personally would not make this quest, or any quest, my life's work. The informational database here is too polluted due to corruption by so many players - unfortunately including Tumlinson with the stones and everything pertaining to Waltz' alleged activities.

That said, I did devote 20 years of my own life to solving a 'treasure' challenge. I wouldn't have spent the effort except that the information I received was proprietary and totally uncorrupted. Even so, it took two decades to achieve closure. There was no payoff, but we finally found what we were seeking. Closure is important for goal-oriented, fact-based people like me (I'm an engineer). It allowed me to dust myself off and walk away from it all and on to other things. During this time, I got involved with a second enigma quite similar to the Gila/Salt mysteries, and that's when my true life's education began. I'm following this forum category to glean information I might use here in NM, even though I know I'll never answer the questions I have. And I don't really care - I'm not married to it.

You are in a position I don't envy - your life's work may solve the AZ mysteries, but you'll never know for sure.

Springfield,

I work for a living in the precious metals exploration industry. I am constantly surrounded by my deserts. Keeping my eyes focused on what I see around me. Everywhere I have prospected I have encountered their subtle signs. The Superstitions are not the only depository as I have located at least two more. I do not have the time to chase them down, but when possible I taught others with me in the field what to look for and they really freak out! Even though they see these signs they find it very difficult to accept.

Never say never; however I do know what I know and that is all that matters and I have answered the challenge to solve this very intriguing puzzle. Hundreds of people have found nothing and I intend to end any other failures. I am just a pioneer and others will learn from my mistakes and continue to push ahead and solve the maps. I believe that I have (my ego speaking) but time will tell. So much of my success is based upon those who believe and work with me. I am simply passing through, this world is not my home. My treasures have been stored somewhere else and that my friend is ALL I need to know.


God has given us all some fantastic gifts if we can learn how to use them.

My Brother-in-law Brian and I sat atop of Bulldog peak one late and warm afternoon pondering the reason why we were set upon this path. I told him that we were attending a class on observation and deduction. I have yet to graduate.


Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

EB

My opinion is how you will can not to solve the stone maps for the moment (as I told Springfield I believe we have located a site; or more I believe IMO). You have much enthusiasm and you have start to make mistakes (I have made so many, but I have also learned from them). You have found a big rock with some outlines which looks like a princess , numbers , dragon , etc. , you have give it a name and you claim how you have found another stone map (very true).
How you found this rock ? (by following instructions) Who gave the name " Sara monument " to this rock (we did)? Exist a record or a map which refered to where is this monument (the horse map, 1900 Florence Quad and the Sara combined)?
I don't know if I am more inteligent than the ancients , but my opinion is how in this era the people are more intelligent (start by understanding how the Great Pyramid of Giza was constructed).
The stones maps was not made for inteligent people . Was made for innocent people. I rest my case Marius.

I want to tell you something which will help you to solve the stones map . The author selected the ground outlines which match with sings and symbols to confuse the " cunning " researchers . Follow the clues which left Peralta and Waltz , use all the stone maps and with little luck maybe you find the treasure . I have already found my treasure and I didn't need the Peralta's or Waltz to tell me where to find it.

Marius

Food for thought,

Ellie Baba

 

[Not Peralta]

It is not a French Jesuit connection. He merely states that the treasure transported to the Superstition Depository area came from France. How do you think that the French Crown Jewels ended up at Victorio Peak?

EB

What proof do you have that of this ENTIRE statement?
NP

 

[johnmark29020]

Johnmark,

I have also seen other figures of royalty in the depository area from different periods of history including the Aztecs; again this my own interpretation although my children will defend me as they were the ones to discover them. I believe that the Sara monuments depict a heck of a lot more information then just clues. They are telling us about the great legends of our past.

Ellie B

If we accept the image in the rock to be the work of people of old,and not a natural formation that only looks like a knight/princess. Then the dragon shadow has to be the work of the same craftsman. If thats the case. Then i would say there is something very important about that spot. Two sides of the same coin appear to be on display. The key to the stone maps could be in that on symbol. I myself spent months making the same mistakes everyone else made about the ldm and stone maps. Then a little insight opened my eyes and the direction left by waltz started making sense. Dragons are very important to the mythology of the past,as is kights princess. Makes me wonder if there isnt a vault room hidden in or near that spot. I would love to see it for myself. Have you folks heard about the laser mapping that was done in south america. It showed more man made cities hiding in the forrest. I wonder what the laser would reveal about rhe sups.

 

[johnmark29020]

Are there any other pic of the knight. I would love to see different angels.
I showed the pic to a Chinese friend of mine,and he said that the image looks like a Chinese royal guard. He said that if it is a royal guard. Then the dragon shadow means theres a hidden treasure. If you folks have different photo.maybe some that show more detail. I can show them to him as well. Then report back what he says. He also said that if its a royal guard of a early dyanasty. This could be a great find.