The lost Dutchman’s gold mine location

[traveller777]

Totally! Killed it! GreatJob!!!!

Who killed it. RAMIRO? We are not sure what you refer to my friend.

 

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[crashbandicoot]

Let me know when you want to know the REAL location. Probably should have used the flash.View attachment 2019809

You old dog you!!

 

[crashbandicoot]

YOU LEFT ME OFF THE LIST OF FOLKS IN THE PHOTOGRAPH! That is me with Kathy Ireland sitting on my lap.

I think in the dark you got Sasquatch by mistake!

 

[traveller777]

I think in the dark you got Sasquatch by mistake!

If so sasquatch has a nice toosh.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

The lost Dutchman’s goldmine cipher maps





There are several cipher maps pertaining to the Dutchman’s goldmine. The earliest cipher map happens to be a map drawing of the thunder god mountain top located at the highest point of the Sierra Ancha mountain ridge which happens to be the farthest, biggest and highest saddle one can see from a high point near the needle towards the east. You probably have seen it, but paid no attention to it, because of the many legends surrounding the needle which attracts your attention making you think that the lost Dutchman’s mine is in the superstitious mountains, but it is not! This cipher map carries several historical clues. It is a Templar cipher map meaning that the map maker was connected to the Templars. The map was made very simple making you think that someone tore the right side of the map but that was intentional because he included a ciphered symbol that explains that the goldmine’s location was around the corner towards the east! Jacob Waltz mentioned that there was a fort near the saddle and if you ever get the chance to go there you are going to find out that he was right! It so happens that the fort was left of the map too so no one would figure it out by just looking at the drawing? But it’s too late because I figured it out! It doesn’t take an expert to located the mountain top and match the map! Jacob Waltz spent a lot of time on the saddle, for security reasons, before going down into the summit towards the goldmine. This map proves that the Spaniards were there a long time ago and the priest probably had the connections to the Templars. In order for this map to be of use to a Templar, he would half to know the exact location of the fort? And there is no history or mention of a fort on thunder god mountain? Until Waltz came along and told us about it? But now, we have this cipher map that agrees with Jacob Waltz? They both agree on the saddle! The saddle that everyone has been looking for? As a matter of fact Jacob himself ciphered a doodle drawing where he placed a saddle at towards the east of the needle to clue us in on what we fail to see! Why? Why? Is this saddle so hard to see? When it is not hard to see? Is it because, it is in the wrong place, according to what you believe? You might want to rethink this because now you won’t be able to ignore it! Because it has to be answered and it will! The next cipher map is going to support this information and the next one is too! Jacob Waltz wasn’t Kidding when he said no one was going to find his goldmine. He was right then, but not anymore! So now I’m going to post photos pertaining to the saddle in question? And later I’ll describe the next cipher map that will agree with this too! Enjoy!

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Another photo of the saddle in the northeast horizon

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Well, since Jacob doodle got in the way of the discussion? Let’s talk about it before moving on. He drew the iconic needle and was hoping you would probably understand where he was going with it. As a matter of fact he drew the miners needle which is also iconic? In between he drew the saddle which may not seem iconic, but it is when you think about it’s high view point. As a matter of fact all three have been draw in their perspective directional position. There is one more drawing containing the iconic four peaks drawn in line, but you no that they are out of position with a little arrow pointing to their proper position. The only thing that most people would question is the saddle because you won’t find it near any of the other iconic structures? It is the central point and question of the doodle? The doodle is more of a ciphered drawing to miss lead those who do not understand it? But it does carry its own message, something that you have heard before? So it reads, if you go to this high point southwest of the needle you are going to be able to locate the miners needle and in between both of them you will look up towards the northeast in order to locate the saddle. From this saddle you can look towards the northwest and see the four peaks line up. The message was probably spoken to whom ever received the doodle, but what he didn’t mention was how far to look to find the saddle? People are sometimes short minded and do understand the deception of this drawing especially when that someone doesn’t know the required territory? Jacob waltz learned to created his own ciphered drawing, not as good as the stone map ciphering that was given to him by Peralta? But he understood the concept of deception a map can provide if you do not understand the hidden clues? Every doodle that has a hidden clue and therefore as they get in the way I will answer them. Now we can proceed to the next cipher map!

 

[markmar]

Another photo of the saddle in the northeast horizon

There is a gold mine in your photo. Not the LDM but another Peralta mine. I can see the spot from the place the pic was taken.
IMHO, the Waltz doodle is a north to south view. From a certain spring you can see that image.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

One more important thing I forgot about Jacob’s doodle? On the saddle that he drew he marked the goldmine’s location as a ciphered clue? The only thing that you half to figure out? Unless you have already figured it out? Is which side of the saddle? The west or the east? Which side do you think is going to be? He is very serious as to where the goldmine is! You just have to find the saddle? Which you should know by now! You only have two choices, west of the saddle or east? It’s a ciphered message so don’t take it as face value!

 

[Ramiro valdez]

If you guessed that the goldmine would have to be on the western side of the saddle because he said that from above his mine he could see the military trail or the four peaks line up? He got you! And you guessed wrong! Every statement that Waltz mentioned concerning the goldmine location was a guessing statement! Like, try to guess what I’m saying? Like I’m pointing to the east from Phoenix saying that one of those salt river mountains is where my goldmine is hidden? Well! There is more than one salt river mountain towards the east! On what side of the Salt River? I can go there and be back in one day? That’s pretty much like 80 miles on tough terrain 40 one way and 40 back from the starting point? What was his starting point or the starting point? From above my mine I could see the military trail? Well! The saddle was directly above his mine and he could see a lot of things! The only thing that was not a guessing game was the trail instructions to the goldmine? It was more like finding your way through the forest by the first clue that led to the next clue. So, you see what your dealing with is a ciphered map that you have to figure out? Statements by Waltz that you have to figure out? Clues that you have to find which meant that nothing was going to be colored in for you! Why! Well, we don’t want everybody to know!!!!! You don’t get it! And that’s why you don’t get! I hope you get it now! So you don’t have to wait for me to describe the rest of the information that is pretty much going to define the same thing! Just though I mentioned that before you get any wrong ideas!

 

[Idahodutch]

If you guessed that the goldmine would have to be on the western side of the saddle because he said that from above his mine he could see the military trail or the four peaks line up? He got you! And you guessed wrong! Every statement that Waltz mentioned concerning the goldmine location was a guessing statement! Like, try to guess what I’m saying? Like I’m pointing to the east from Phoenix saying that one of those salt river mountains is where my goldmine is hidden? Well! There is more than one salt river mountain towards the east! On what side of the Salt River? I can go there and be back in one day? That’s pretty much like 80 miles on tough terrain 40 one way and 40 back from the starting point? What was his starting point or the starting point? From above my mine I could see the military trail? Well! The saddle was directly above his mine and he could see a lot of things! The only thing that was not a guessing game was the trail instructions to the goldmine? It was more like finding your way through the forest by the first clue that led to the next clue. So, you see what your dealing with is a ciphered map that you have to figure out? Statements by Waltz that you have to figure out? Clues that you have to find which meant that nothing was going to be colored in for you! Why! Well, we don’t want everybody to know!!!!! You don’t get it! And that’s why you don’t get! I hope you get it now! So you don’t have to wait for me to describe the rest of the information that is pretty much going to define the same thing! Just though I mentioned that before you get any wrong ideas!

Yeah, those dang clues can sure get in the way sometimes.
😂😂😂
All part of the fun 👍😎

 

[Idahodutch]

Yeah, those dang clues can sure get in the way sometimes.
😂😂😂
All part of the fun 👍😎

Ramiro,
You’ve been coming forth with your theories, but seem to be ignoring or dismissing replies from forum members, forum members you seem to desire to engage with.
Sometimes your replies here, have to do with rebutting new posts on other threads? Threads about clues.

In all reality this legend has clues associated with it.
Anybody that wants to look for the LDM, can choose for themselves, their search approach.
You have an opinion about the clues, and what you choose to follow…. just like most anyone.
I will say with a wink 😉 …… without the clues, why ….. one might be considered clueless 😁

Best of luck to you Ramiro,
Idahodutch

 

[Ramiro valdez]

I’ve seen the mapping that belongs to that cipher map on that specific saddle. I’ve seen the place where the fort used to be on that same mountain top. I know the starting point is the salt river as specified by the Peralta stone map given to Julia by Waltz. The water holes that start the trail to the goldmine, the military trail, the old farm before you reach the gorge or the trail that leads up to the saddle depending on which of Waltz ways you choose to approach the goldmine? The rock horse area beyond the gorge, the rock ridge that belongs to the rock horse’s neck that leads to the tributary canyons located near the horse’s mouth, the funnel shape entries to the dark canyon, the face that describes both funnel shape entries as specified at the top of Peralta’s stone map, which also happens to be defined on priest stone map as the two circular structures which are funnels, the northern top wall of the the right funnel that Waltz used to find the rabbit hole, the eye of the needle’s position towards the west as Waltz drew it on his doodle drawing, the 3x3 area mapping that you fail to see on the Peralta’s stone map which was laid on top of the one hundred square map area that has been deceiving you and still you won’t consider this to be enough to turn your head towards the east? I understand your belief! I just don’t understand your perception. So yes I do believe in my knowledge and I don’t need to go inside the rabbit hole to prove the location. Answering the other threads was just to get your attention to your miss direction. No! And I really don’t have to follow your rules. Because I set this thread to follow what I believe to be right as you stated. I normally try to converse more with those who make common sense and you just proved you have common sense! I like that about you! It’s a change! Change is what is needed to find the LDM.

 

[Idahodutch]

I’ve seen the mapping that belongs to that cipher map on that specific saddle. I’ve seen the place where the fort used to be on that same mountain top. I know the starting point is the salt river as specified by the Peralta stone map given to Julia by Waltz. The water holes that start the trail to the goldmine, the military trail, the old farm before you reach the gorge or the trail that leads up to the saddle depending on which of Waltz ways you choose to approach the goldmine? The rock horse area beyond the gorge, the rock ridge that belongs to the rock horse’s neck that leads to the tributary canyons located near the horse’s mouth, the funnel shape entries to the dark canyon, the face that describes both funnel shape entries as specified at the top of Peralta’s stone map, which also happens to be defined on priest stone map as the two circular structures which are funnels, the northern top wall of the the right funnel that Waltz used to find the rabbit hole, the eye of the needle’s position towards the west as Waltz drew it on his doodle drawing, the 3x3 area mapping that you fail to see on the Peralta’s stone map which was laid on top of the one hundred square map area that has been deceiving you and still you won’t consider this to be enough to turn your head towards the east? I understand your belief! I just don’t understand your perception. So yes I do believe in my knowledge and I don’t need to go inside the rabbit hole to prove the location. Answering the other threads was just to get your attention to your miss direction. No! And I really don’t have to follow your rules. Because I set this thread to follow what I believe to be right as you stated. I normally try to converse more with those who make common sense and you just proved you have common sense! I like that about you! It’s a change! Change is what is needed to find the LDM.

Ramiro,
Thanks for responding. It helps to get a better understanding where someone might be coming from.
I think it’s ok for us to have different beliefs about the LDM, and what to follow to find it.

You might have your work cut trying to get much more support, than some encouraging words. The things you have said you go by, for your conclusions, are pretty much outside the box.
Lots of documentation, eye witnesses, …. Just good ol’ paper trail, that support the main stream beliefs about the legend.

What I hear you asking of me, us, whoever ….. is that we should dismiss the mainstream clues, because you say it’s disinformation, and listen to what it is, that you’ve been trying to teach us.

Have I misunderstood, or is that about right?

 

[Ramiro valdez]

What I’m saying is that you ignored or do not understand the starting point on the Peralta stone map that was given to Julia or maybe you don’t believe in that? I usually study all the information based on my knowledge of cipher maps and the area in question. If it makes sense I will use that information because the starting is very important, it will lead you to connect all the clues. If you decide to go into the mountains looking to find a clue or clues you might find a lot of things that look like the clue and that’s ok but if you don’t connect your clues to the starting point that will define all the clues then you won’t get the support needed for your venture. It is much better to locate the starting point that will connect all the clues that way you won’t be miss lead by 2,3, or a couple of clues that will not connect to the starting point. The starting point is what is missing in everybody’s game plan and what I’m trying to explain is just that point, that is if you believe in the stone map? I do, and I believe that it is not hard to define it because I know how to read symbolic cipher maps. This one is not hard to read because it’s a large map area of all the mountain ranges close to the Salt River and it defines a section of the Salt River faces towards the north. I studied the Salt River and there is just one place that faces the north and this place will connect to all the clues that lead to the LDM. This map was handed down from Peralta to Waltz and Waltz to Julia before Walt decided to include all the clues. This map should be very important to everyone who’s looking for the LDM. If you dismiss the map you can forget about find the starting point and you will never connect your clues to all the clues because any suspected clue found west of the Salt River will never connect to finding the LDM according to this map. Those who believe in this map will have to part ways with all those who do not believe in it. All those who do not trust the map will continue to search west of the River Valley and this is the reason why I disagree with your belief and anyone who devices not to follow this map. Here is where we part ways and I will continue with what many don’t want here which is dining more clue than anyone has in over a hundred and fifty years. It’s good thing you asked! I understand your belief if you decide to continue on your venture. Trust me! I won’t bother your thread any more!

 

[Idahodutch]

What I’m saying is that you ignored or do not understand the starting point on the Peralta stone map that was given to Julia or maybe you don’t believe in that? I usually study all the information based on my knowledge of cipher maps and the area in question. If it makes sense I will use that information because the starting is very important, it will lead you to connect all the clues. If you decide to go into the mountains looking to find a clue or clues you might find a lot of things that look like the clue and that’s ok but if you don’t connect your clues to the starting point that will define all the clues then you won’t get the support needed for your venture. It is much better to locate the starting point that will connect all the clues that way you won’t be miss lead by 2,3, or a couple of clues that will not connect to the starting point. The starting point is what is missing in everybody’s game plan and what I’m trying to explain is just that point, that is if you believe in the stone map? I do, and I believe that it is not hard to define it because I know how to read symbolic cipher maps. This one is not hard to read because it’s a large map area of all the mountain ranges close to the Salt River and it defines a section of the Salt River faces towards the north. I studied the Salt River and there is just one place that faces the north and this place will connect to all the clues that lead to the LDM. This map was handed down from Peralta to Waltz and Waltz to Julia before Walt decided to include all the clues. This map should be very important to everyone who’s looking for the LDM. If you dismiss the map you can forget about find the starting point and you will never connect your clues to all the clues because any suspected clue found west of the Salt River will never connect to finding the LDM according to this map. Those who believe in this map will have to part ways with all those who do not believe in it. All those who do not trust the map will continue to search west of the River Valley and this is the reason why I disagree with your belief and anyone who devices not to follow this map. Here is where we part ways and I will continue with what many don’t want here which is dining more clue than anyone has in over a hundred and fifty years. It’s good thing you asked! I understand your belief if you decide to continue on your venture. Trust me! I won’t bother your thread any more!

Ramiro,
I have read your posts. It really is ok if we do not agree on our search methods in regards to the LDM. 👍😁

Good luck and take care,
Idahodutch

 

[dredgernaut]

What I’m saying is that you ignored or do not understand the starting point on the Peralta stone map that was given to Julia or maybe you don’t believe in that? I usually study all the information based on my knowledge of cipher maps and the area in question. If it makes sense I will use that information because the starting is very important, it will lead you to connect all the clues. If you decide to go into the mountains looking to find a clue or clues you might find a lot of things that look like the clue and that’s ok but if you don’t connect your clues to the starting point that will define all the clues then you won’t get the support needed for your venture. It is much better to locate the starting point that will connect all the clues that way you won’t be miss lead by 2,3, or a couple of clues that will not connect to the starting point. The starting point is what is missing in everybody’s game plan and what I’m trying to explain is just that point, that is if you believe in the stone map? I do, and I believe that it is not hard to define it because I know how to read symbolic cipher maps. This one is not hard to read because it’s a large map area of all the mountain ranges close to the Salt River and it defines a section of the Salt River faces towards the north. I studied the Salt River and there is just one place that faces the north and this place will connect to all the clues that lead to the LDM. This map was handed down from Peralta to Waltz and Waltz to Julia before Walt decided to include all the clues. This map should be very important to everyone who’s looking for the LDM. If you dismiss the map you can forget about find the starting point and you will never connect your clues to all the clues because any suspected clue found west of the Salt River will never connect to finding the LDM according to this map. Those who believe in this map will have to part ways with all those who do not believe in it. All those who do not trust the map will continue to search west of the River Valley and this is the reason why I disagree with your belief and anyone who devices not to follow this map. Here is where we part ways and I will continue with what many don’t want here which is dining more clue than anyone has in over a hundred and fifty years. It’s good thing you asked! I understand your belief if you decide to continue on your venture. Trust me! I won’t bother your thread any more!

Hi ramiro.. just for the record.. Jacob waltz never gave the peralta stones to julia.. there is no record or proof the stone maps even existed in the years Jacob was alive.. there was a sketch involved.. but the stones never even saw daylight until roughly 1949.. that is way after waltz's death.. these facts are well known and recorded.. just sayin..

 

[Blackfoot58]

Anything is possible… but I haven’t seen a big connection between the Knights Templar and the Spanish Conquistadors. Templar legacy leans toward escaping from the Holy Land, to a ship via cover of darkness. Then passage to the north: not Portugal or Spain: their treasure would have been taken by either of these and the Templars imprisoned or executed. Next strong evidence = Scotland. The proof being graves that are obviously Templar and from the correct time period. Next some argument: possibly Greenland on the way to Nova Scotia. A little know cipher (balantrodocian) mentions what was thought to be Greenland. Ethiopia was considered by much of the scholars as a possibility. This cipher points out Ethiopia was intended to misdirect “unfaithful seekers”. Follow this story line and it is unclear at this step. Either unloaded at New Scotland (Nova Scotia) then transported inland for a 4 day trek, or taken to modern day Newfoundland.
Keep in mind the Scottish chapel mentioned as a final resting place. Per the cipher, R. Chapel was a safe place for “imedyate” [sic] protection.
The Templars underwent “holy prayer and suffering” asking Devine guidance. The suffering was believed to be self-denial at all levels. They received guidance and moved the “Lux di Deo” to a final location until such time it needs to be discovered.

As with any legend, I can verify none of this for accuracy. The documents that revealed parts of this were quite obscure. Obscurity does not always equate to factual.

 

[EDN]

Hi Ramiro,

Would you mind sharing where you think the starting point is? I will understand not sharing, if you are planning to follow the clues as you see them to the mine.

I personally don't think the starting point is on the Salt River, or over by quarter circle ranch. I think the starting point is on the west side of the Verde River and just south of the Fort McDowell ruins.

Hope you can share?

I sincerely hope you or someone else finds the mine. Best of luck to you!

EDN

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Well, like I said before, it makes no sense not to follow a map or to understand that the needle left side points to the saddle in the east on top of the Sierra Ancha mountain range just as Jacob Waltz drew it on his doodle map and now that you have informed that there is another old Templar map, you still don’t believe in that. Those of you who don’t ask to know more know what I mean, but some of you need to shown more proof of the actual place so from now on I will just post the photos of what these maps are talking about. Let’s start with the first map, again! You don’t have to put on your boots, but you will have to use the satellite to get there.