tayopa, legend or reality ...?

[Highmountain]

LMAO
NO OFFENSE, this tables it, I liked being compared to the Mormon's... it just got all turned around. We are all very good.

I waited for your post ORO... never disappointed!.. you are such a gentleman, I know I've stepped on some toes, but it makes you think, makes you turn the cube for a different view.

NO I am not a Mormon, I just research... I see patterns where others see red tape or what I call bait and switch... answering questions with questions and using the mystical for anything other than delight and wonder.

That said, I'm an open book.. I came to this forum to share... which is what I thought it was for. The other forum I've been involved with for 13 yrs, is what Dan Brown took and made for his book, The DaVinci Code... the forum shared and he wrote... thats a good thing, but he should have had a lot more thank you's and credits for lots of others life work (not me).

But we shared... or rather that forum shared... I learned.

What it taught me was that the best way to hide is in plain sight, I got to thinking about Myths and Legends of America, and S. America, while its been brutally shreaded, first by Spainish conquest, then by diffussionism, religion, uncontrolled greed and basically the shaping of young minds like a computer a very small one. I step outside the box... a word can open a world for me.. I will go back to its etymoligy, first use, how its used by the bible and ultimely the polictics and society in which it was used. Those are keys.

As I said, and my holy rolling family freak on, the Old Testament is a VERY important historical document, but not the last word. Just a guide. The New Testament is exactly what it says "Good News" although I have my issues on the first council of Nicea and there decision and protrayal of issues, I won't go into.

I will not and do not defame the precious word. I'm a researcher by hobby, with a side of art history.

I won't go into who is right or wrong, Christian, Catholic, Mormon or Capt Kangaroo.

I like the lively banter here, I want input, if its something you aren't comfortable bringing on the table, send me a private message.

One thing that sent me off was the Story of the ship the Pearl, there are other things that will come out, but its a fun thread, and anything anyone wants to run by me is ok, I may disagree, but I will prove or disprove it to MY satifaction.

There will be no flights of fancy, no backward writing although that seems to work for Da Vinci (some of his notebooks were in mirror language) and everyone here is more than interesting even with quirks, shoot I have a bunch. But the banter is where new things go, it interupts the steady, (sometimes stupid) flow we get stuck in.

Break out... open your minds, throw things out... lets find some treasure, its hiding in plain sight/site.

And I'm learning some more Spainish.
Janiece

Janiece: I'm not a Christian, Muslim, Mormon or Jew, though I've studied the Bible and Judeo/Christian history extensively. I know almost nothing about Mormon doctrine, though I've studied Mormon 19th Century history to a fault. I don't know what the Da Vinci Code is. The foreign language I know best is Gujarati and a few words of Japanese and Korean.

So probably I won't be contributing much to this thread, for which I apologize. But I will continue to subscribe to it in hopes of learning something.

Jack

 

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[Gossamer]

Janiece: I'm not a Christian, Muslim, Mormon or Jew, though I've studied the Bible and Judeo/Christian history extensively. I know almost nothing about Mormon doctrine, though I've studied Mormon 19th Century history to a fault.
What have your conclusions been about the Mormon timeline and their claims? What stood out as to their history?

I don't know what the Da Vinci Code is.
The 'code' is a theory that Da Vinci the Renaissance artist painted in 'clues' as to the actual story of Jesus... that he was married to Mary of Magdala. The book was a best seller with lots of controversy.. old news LOL

The foreign language I know best is Gujarati and a few words of Japanese and Korean.
Don't have a clue what Gujarti is, but would love to know, and how you came to know it.
I have a few words in Japanese and Cantonese. Mostly may I have a glass of water.

So probably I won't be contributing much to this thread, for which I apologize. But I will continue to subscribe to it in hopes of learning something.No, contribute away... sometimes it gets a little crazy, but this is a group of very good people. I think I've stepped out of the box a bit too much, but that's what I do. I came here to learn, so come on... lets learn. And Welcome. shoot I haven't even learned how to do that cool blue box... sob
Janiece

 

[Cynangyl]

Janiece....here is one place maybe I can teach ya something....the cool blue box....if you hit "quote" above someone's post rather than "reply to post" at the bottom.......you will get a cool blue box with their post in it! It is helpful sometimes for when a post is a ways up the screen by the time you see it and want to respond to it.

 

[Oroblanco]

Gossamer wrote:

I'm learning from Oro!

Oh my - I HOPE NOT! I only know enough Espanol to get myself slapped! I would hate to think of your getting a swat due to picking up a little street-Spanglish from me! I do hope to learn Spanish eventually though, and in particular reading (as opposed to speaking) the archaic.

Highmountain wrote:

Oro: Evidently you believe there's something negative about being Mormon. I don't, and quite frankly your implying it's such says a great deal about you and nothing at all about Mormons.

Hmm please post exactly where I said anything negative about the Mormons or the religious belief system of the Latter Day Saints? I cannot find it. Here is the reply I posted:

From your deprecating remarks Jack it is very apparent that you are not well acquainted with some of our members here, including Janiece, who are quite expert in the field of research. As you have expressed your doubts already, combined with the "left handed" apologies to our mutual amigo Gossamer, I would suggest that you test the members here with some questions. I am confident that you will be pleasantly surprised.
Oroblanco

Where did I mention Mormons in this? Thank you in advance,

Oroblanco

 

[Cynangyl]

well poopy and here I had hoped to learn some spanish as well....I sure don't want slapped! rofl

 

[Highmountain]

Janiece: I'm not a Christian, Muslim, Mormon or Jew, though I've studied the Bible and Judeo/Christian history extensively. I know almost nothing about Mormon doctrine, though I've studied Mormon 19th Century history to a fault.
What have your conclusions been about the Mormon timeline and their claims? What stood out as to their history?

I don't know what the Da Vinci Code is.
The 'code' is a theory that Da Vinci the Renaissance artist painted in 'clues' as to the actual story of Jesus... that he was married to Mary of Magdala. The book was a best seller with lots of controversy.. old news LOL

The foreign language I know best is Gujarati and a few words of Japanese and Korean.
Don't have a clue what Gujarti is, but would love to know, and how you came to know it.
I have a few words in Japanese and Cantonese. Mostly may I have a glass of water.

So probably I won't be contributing much to this thread, for which I apologize. But I will continue to subscribe to it in hopes of learning something.No, contribute away... sometimes it gets a little crazy, but this is a group of very good people. I think I've stepped out of the box a bit too much, but that's what I do. I came here to learn, so come on... lets learn. And Welcome. shoot I haven't even learned how to do that cool blue box... sob
Janiece

What have your conclusions been about the Mormon timeline and their claims? What stood out as to their history?

I can say I believe Joseph Smith believed what he claimed to believe and to have found, though I don't necessarily believe the conclusions he drew were the same as I'd have drawn under similar circumstances. His find, along with the nearby 'birth of 19th Century Spiritualism', and Millerism [7th Day Adventism] were coincident with another major happening in the area involving something else entirely, which I suspect might be responsible for all of it. A 'Spirit of Water' thing I won't go into here.

What stood out as to their history? Their dedication and determination. The persecutions they endured at the hands of those around them of other religions. The 'handcart migration' and the accompanying hardships. The ugliness such as the Jim Bridger Ferry and similar incidents where their behavior was deplorable and entirely out of character. Their enlightened ways of dealing with tribes, such as the 'Indian Farmer' projects. The moving oration of Brigham Young on the 10th anniversary of the settlement in Utah and the threat of war with the US Army. The fact the commander of the Army unit stated in public, "I'm going to arrest Brigham Young, give him a fair trial, and hang him". The Mountain Meadows Massacre. All the events surrounding Lee's Ferry and Lee, including his end. The Mormon enclave in Mexico from the 1880s until 1912.

Gujarati is a province of India. Peace corps language training.

Have a great one.
Jack

 

[Oroblanco]

Jack your earlier statement :

your implying it's such says a great deal about you

based on some reference to Mormons you found in my post (I could not find this reference) and your non-reply have indeed told me a great deal about you. I now will have to hunt up a copy of your books Mr Purcell, out of sheer curiosity.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. I have mentioned this before, but while I do try to "drop in" to Treasurenet at least once a day there are times when I cannot get online, so if you good folks don't see a reply from me for a day or three it is not that I am ignoring you or that anything is wrong, just haven't had a chance. So if I 'disappear' it is only outside reasons, I will be back to catch up.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

aaah so it was not just me that had not seen where she had said she was mormon...I thought I may have missed something. lol I probably miss a lot in reality but I am learning. I would be interested to hear about the similarities in the Mormon beliefs and the Americas history. Certainly no reason that I can not learn from the Mormon beliefs regarding history without being Mormon

Cynangyl,

Don't want to turn this into Mormon History Week, nor do I wish to get involved in the obvious baiting that has been going on. For that reason, I have slowed down on my posting here.

There is a big difference between "Mormon beliefs" and the "official" position of the Mormon Church. The church was burned too many times by interesting theories as to the archaeological history of the Mormon Church. Too many "artifacts" have been discovered only to be proven a hoax. The church, as far as I know, has not accepted any one place as being the place of the Book Of Mormon.

After reading the Book of Mormon, you would do well to get a copy of "Archaeology and The Book of Mormon" by, Milton R. Hunter and Quest for the Gold Plates" by, Thomas Stuart Ferguson.

As for similarities, you could start with the descriptions of the cities in the Book Of Mormon, and those of the Aztecs. The Conquistadors believed that the Aztec people were from the lost tribes of Israel. The Mormons believe they are descendents of those same Jews. Some of the geography from the Book of Mormon matches Mesoamerica.

Many fine Mormon scholars and archaeologists have researched the question.......to death. To date, as far as I know, the church has failed to back any of their conclusions. Professor Michael D. Coe worked with many of the Mormon's in Mesoamerica and had nothing but praise for their professional abilities......without, I believe, agreeing with their beliefs.

Some of the major stumbling blocks are: Religion (God vs. gods), language.....spoken/written and race. (DNA)

I spent two years researching the Mormon history and beliefs. It was interesting.

If you have some specific questions I will be happy to answer them in private. You should know, up front, that I don't have private conversations without knowing the name, address, phone number and email address of the person I am talking to. I have no problem with giving them the same information in return.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Highmountain]

Jack your earlier statement :

your implying it's such says a great deal about you

based on some reference to Mormons you found in my post (I could not find this reference) and your non-reply have indeed told me a great deal about you. I now will have to hunt up a copy of your books Mr Purcell, out of sheer curiosity.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. I have mentioned this before, but while I do try to "drop in" to Treasurenet at least once a day there are times when I cannot get online, so if you good folks don't see a reply from me for a day or three it is not that I am ignoring you or that anything is wrong, just haven't had a chance. So if I 'disappear' it is only outside reasons, I will be back to catch up.
your friend,
Oroblanco

your non-reply have indeed told me a great deal about you

Good.

I now will have to hunt up a copy of your books

Whatever you think's best.

Have a great one.
Jack

 

[Cynangyl]

aaah so it was not just me that had not seen where she had said she was mormon...I thought I may have missed something. lol I probably miss a lot in reality but I am learning. I would be interested to hear about the similarities in the Mormon beliefs and the Americas history. Certainly no reason that I can not learn from the Mormon beliefs regarding history without being Mormon

Cynangyl,

Don't want to turn this into Mormon History Week, nor do I wish to get involved in the obvious baiting that has been going on. For that reason, I have slowed down on my posting here.

There is a big difference between "Mormon beliefs" and the "official" position of the Mormon Church. The church was burned too many times by interesting theories as to the archaeological history of the Mormon Church. Too many "artifacts" have been discovered only to be proven a hoax. The church, as far as I know, has not accepted any one place as being the place of the Book Of Mormon.

After reading the Book of Mormon, you would do well to get a copy of "Archaeology and The Book of Mormon" by, Milton R. Hunter and Quest for the Gold Plates" by, Thomas Stuart Ferguson.

As for similarities, you could start with the descriptions of the cities in the Book Of Mormon, and those of the Aztecs. The Conquistadors believed that the Aztec people were from the lost tribes of Israel. The Mormons believe they are descendents of those same Jews. Some of the geography from the Book of Mormon matches Mesoamerica.

Many fine Mormon scholars and archaeologists have researched the question.......to death. To date, as far as I know, the church has failed to back any of their conclusions. Professor Michael D. Coe worked with many of the Mormon's in Mesoamerica and had nothing but praise for their professional abilities......without, I believe, agreeing with their beliefs.

Some of the major stumbling blocks are: Religion (God vs. gods), language.....spoken/written and race. (DNA)

I spent two years researching the Mormon history and beliefs. It was interesting.

If you have some specific questions I will be happy to answer them in private. You should know, up front, that I don't have private conversations without knowing the name, address, phone number and email address of the person I am talking to. I have no problem with giving them the same information in return.

Take care,

Joe

Thank you Joe for the information. I can totally understand not wanting to be in the middle of some of what has been going on and I do appreciate you taking the time to give me some ideas of where to go to learn more as well as give me a good bit of information yourself. I can see where I am going to find it necessary to start a library in order to feed the hunger for information that is growing more and more as I read here. I appreciate your offer to answer questions but I am afraid with as little as I know I would make you absolutely nuts asking so many and I would like to have studied enough to atleast formulate somewhat intelligent questions. lol Again, thanks! You are greatly appreciated in what info you have shared with me. Now I need to spend some time studying!

 

[Oroblanco]

Highmountain I am now taking advantage of a T-net feature that I rarely ever use, and putting you on 'ignore' - this way no further misunderstandings can arise. I take that back, you are NOT on ignore. Good luck and good hunting to you Jack, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Cynangyl,

You are selling yourself very, very short.......and I am not buying it.

I am often in the middle of this very sort of thing. It's taken awhile, but I believe I can recognize the chum when it's being thrown in the water. That has not been the case in my past.

Take care,

Jjoe

 

[Gossamer]

Cynangyl,

You are selling yourself very, very short.......and I am not buying it.

I am often in the middle of this very sort of thing. It's taken awhile, but I believe I can recognize the chum when it's being thrown in the water. That has not been the case in my past.

Take care,

Jjoe

I agree Cyn... its the only way to learn, ask questions... you will teach me.
Cactus, I'm sorry.
Janiece

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I will be happy to loan you my own copies of Jack's books, if you have trouble getting them.

By the same token, it seems a bit harsh to put such an intelligent and informed man on ignore, because he has a hard time with having his comments questioned. Better, IMHO, to read what he has to offer and let others do the questioning.

He is either ignoring my comments, or he has also hit the ignore button. In my case I can understand, because it is likely I have nothing to offer to someone with his experience.

I love having my statements questioned, because each time that happens I learn more. Sometimes I learn that I was wrong. That's a good thing.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Gossamer]

Jack.. are you the comic book artist or the Desert Survilalist? This is all good everyone!
Janiece

 

[Cynangyl]

Cynangyl,

You are selling yourself very, very short.......and I am not buying it.

I am often in the middle of this very sort of thing. It's taken awhile, but I believe I can recognize the chum when it's being thrown in the water. That has not been the case in my past.

Take care,

Jjoe

Thanks Joe although I do think you overestimate me. lol There are a lot of great teachers here though and I am absorbing things as quickly as I can since I find this so fascinating. What would be even more fascinating would be if somehow I could tie this all into the tribes here that I am familiar with to some degree. Surely someplace in history they would tie in with the others mentioned as well. I can see I will get very little sleep tonight as my mind is going a hundred miles an hour trying to wrap itself around all of this. lol

Cynangyl,

You are selling yourself very, very short.......and I am not buying it.

I am often in the middle of this very sort of thing. It's taken awhile, but I believe I can recognize the chum when it's being thrown in the water. That has not been the case in my past.

Take care,

Jjoe

I agree Cyn... its the only way to learn, ask questions... you will teach me.

Aha! You figured out the cool blue box! As you can see, you can insert more than one by scrolling down the page and finding another post you wish to quote and if there is only a portion that you wish to quote you can always highlight that portion of the post and delete it as long as you leave the beginning and end quote intact.

I have no problem asking questions once I know enough to figure out what all to ask but in the beginning I just want to say "tell me everything!" lol I am picking up a lot from listening....or reading to be more accurate.

I have heard theories before about how the Americas became populated....there were obviously intelligent beings here before the pilgrims showed up! lol I seem to recall there was a theory that at one point all the land was in one mass instead of seperate continents then I start reading here and hearing of seafaring peoples actually crossing the Atlantic long before the so called intelligent beings of today gave them credit for having enough brains to do much more than thump their chests. I find that whole line of reasoning to be pretty hard to swallow as far as the cavemen with no intelligence thing. One land mass which seperated later? hmmm dunno, never explored that idea enough to give it credence or question it either one. I was very interested to hear the idea that people in biblical times had come here and would love to learn more as to how and why and what their life was like before during and after the journey. Now do I know enough about the subject to ask intelligent questions? lol nope! I will learn though!

 

[cactusjumper]

Gossamer,

"I agree Cyn... its the only way to learn, ask questions... you will teach me.
Cactus, I'm sorry.
Janiece"

I appreciate your apology, but have no idea what you have written that warrants it. Maybe it's best that I don't have a clue, as I would probably say something stupid.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Joe as happens so frequently you are right, I am going to take that "ignore" back off, and will make an effort to choose words with greater caution. I don't like ignoring anyone, and Jack has a great deal to offer.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Gossamer]

I don't know what I was apologizing for, I just wanted it to go back to learning.
Janiece

 

[Gossamer]

Cyn, what tribes are you interested in?
Janiece