sdrawkcab gnipyt ew era yhw?
tayopa, legend or reality ...?
- Thread starter the blindbowman
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the blindbowman
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BoltGossamer said:
the blindbowman
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Cynangyl said:
y R u...?
Oroblanco
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Greetings friends,
Gossamer wrote:
Thank you for the compliment amigo, (BLUSH)
I only hope to prevent our friendships from falling apart over such minor differences and misunderstandings. I believe our mutual friend Blindbowman now realizes there was no attack on him.
Gossamer also wrote:
The thread linkee is:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,154852.0.html
I can assure you that you are not pestering ME, and doubt you are pestering anyone else here either. Now why would you say that answering a question with a question is an “old trick”? 
Gossamer also wrote:
It is of course academic blasphemy to suggest that mankind was anything but ‘cave man’ type hunter-gatherers when we speak of 11,000 years ago, however not being a member of academia I have nothing to lose; what about your ‘political’ situation, is it career-dangerous for you to take such a radical view? I am not trying to talk you out of it – for there is plenty of evidence that at least SOME parts of mankind were in fact “civilized” by the measures we generally use to define a people as being civilized, one look at those strange grooves “wheel ruts” on the island of Malta, that run down below sea level is fair proof that people were not living as cave-men when the sea level was lower and that has to be many thousands of years ago. Then there are the stone circles that also run down below sea level in France and one in the UK that is almost entirely under water. Some people were living in some kind of at least semi-permanent settlements and having specialized jobs, with complex belief systems as well as being observant of the stars/Sun/Moon which implies that they were at least partially agricultural.
To justify this off-topic wandering of mine, I only want to add here that Plato’s lost island civilization of Atlantis, which might be one and the same with Aztlan, as he describes it - was not the type of Atlantis we get from Hollywood as well as numerous MODERN books. He mentions no flying machines, no magic crystals or high-technology, only describing what could pass as a Chalcolithic culture that had taken the art of hydraulic tech a step further than most ancient civilizations, having hot and cold running water piped through the city. Plutarch accused Plato of having embellished the story of Atlantis, giving them grand architecture and plumbing for instance, but affirmed that Solon had written at least a part work on the history of the place. He never accused Plato of inventing Atlantis, and we can prove that he did not – for it is mentioned in Herodotus’ The Histories which was written over 100 years before Plato. Then if we consider that some ancient sites do date back at least close to the time period mentioned by Plato such as Malta mentioned above which has very ancient megalithic ruins, Gobekli Tepe in Turkey which dates to at least 9000 BC, or Jericho which was a major Neolithic settlement by 8000 BC but had been first settled nearly two thousand years earlier; add to this that we have flood “myths” virtually world-wide, clear evidence of massive sea-level rises as the last Ice Age ended with several huge floods (the ice dams by the Great lakes or Snake River etc) leaving evidence including the bones of wooly rhinos that were washed into caves in the islands near Malta – (boy I really went the long way round, but wanted to toss in at least some of the various points) and I don’t think it is necessary to refer to this Ice Age civilization as “mythical” – only that we have not yet identified it. The ancient geoglyphs such as the Horse in the UK or the Shark at Andros etc are clues that some kind of ancient civilization did exist in that dim part of our history and did extend over a very large area – not limited to just Anatolia for instance.
To tie this in with our subject line – I am defeated I can’t come up with a great tie-in. However, our mutual amigo Real de Tayopa has already dropped a hint here that might do – for in his map he included the migration path (his proposed path of course, no one has mapped it out with precision yet) and this path he has steered directly over the site of Tayopa. I can only conclude that he has found some kind of evidence there to suggest some Aztec presence, which he has not yet posted publicly. So mi amigo Don Real de Tayopa, would you care to elaborate and/or enlighten us? Thank you in advance,
Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Your “peacemaking”
friend,
Oroblanco
Gossamer wrote:
Thank you for the compliment amigo, (BLUSH)
I only hope to prevent our friendships from falling apart over such minor differences and misunderstandings. I believe our mutual friend Blindbowman now realizes there was no attack on him.Gossamer also wrote:
The thread linkee is:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,154852.0.html
I can assure you that you are not pestering ME, and doubt you are pestering anyone else here either. Now why would you say that answering a question with a question is an “old trick”?
Gossamer also wrote:
It is of course academic blasphemy to suggest that mankind was anything but ‘cave man’ type hunter-gatherers when we speak of 11,000 years ago, however not being a member of academia I have nothing to lose; what about your ‘political’ situation, is it career-dangerous for you to take such a radical view? I am not trying to talk you out of it – for there is plenty of evidence that at least SOME parts of mankind were in fact “civilized” by the measures we generally use to define a people as being civilized, one look at those strange grooves “wheel ruts” on the island of Malta, that run down below sea level is fair proof that people were not living as cave-men when the sea level was lower and that has to be many thousands of years ago. Then there are the stone circles that also run down below sea level in France and one in the UK that is almost entirely under water. Some people were living in some kind of at least semi-permanent settlements and having specialized jobs, with complex belief systems as well as being observant of the stars/Sun/Moon which implies that they were at least partially agricultural.
To justify this off-topic wandering of mine, I only want to add here that Plato’s lost island civilization of Atlantis, which might be one and the same with Aztlan, as he describes it - was not the type of Atlantis we get from Hollywood as well as numerous MODERN books. He mentions no flying machines, no magic crystals or high-technology, only describing what could pass as a Chalcolithic culture that had taken the art of hydraulic tech a step further than most ancient civilizations, having hot and cold running water piped through the city. Plutarch accused Plato of having embellished the story of Atlantis, giving them grand architecture and plumbing for instance, but affirmed that Solon had written at least a part work on the history of the place. He never accused Plato of inventing Atlantis, and we can prove that he did not – for it is mentioned in Herodotus’ The Histories which was written over 100 years before Plato. Then if we consider that some ancient sites do date back at least close to the time period mentioned by Plato such as Malta mentioned above which has very ancient megalithic ruins, Gobekli Tepe in Turkey which dates to at least 9000 BC, or Jericho which was a major Neolithic settlement by 8000 BC but had been first settled nearly two thousand years earlier; add to this that we have flood “myths” virtually world-wide, clear evidence of massive sea-level rises as the last Ice Age ended with several huge floods (the ice dams by the Great lakes or Snake River etc) leaving evidence including the bones of wooly rhinos that were washed into caves in the islands near Malta – (boy I really went the long way round, but wanted to toss in at least some of the various points) and I don’t think it is necessary to refer to this Ice Age civilization as “mythical” – only that we have not yet identified it. The ancient geoglyphs such as the Horse in the UK or the Shark at Andros etc are clues that some kind of ancient civilization did exist in that dim part of our history and did extend over a very large area – not limited to just Anatolia for instance.
To tie this in with our subject line – I am defeated I can’t come up with a great tie-in. However, our mutual amigo Real de Tayopa has already dropped a hint here that might do – for in his map he included the migration path (his proposed path of course, no one has mapped it out with precision yet) and this path he has steered directly over the site of Tayopa. I can only conclude that he has found some kind of evidence there to suggest some Aztec presence, which he has not yet posted publicly. So mi amigo Don Real de Tayopa, would you care to elaborate and/or enlighten us? Thank you in advance,
Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Your “peacemaking”
friend,Oroblanco
Oro...thak you.
I have several theories about the mound builders, some include what the Mormon's believe.
I believe a sea-faring colony migrated either from landing at the east coast or by going around and taking the Mississippi. There is too much evidence. IMHO
But I believe that the Caananites came over and built a colony, they were facing extinction in their lands as the Assyrians and others including Hebrew, that were trying to wipe them out.
That combines with the catastrophic events that IMO were occurring during the time (2000 bc, give or take a couple hundred years.)
The Indians tell of these people and say they were very, very tall and with mostly red hair., but they were such bullies that the Indians grouped together and destroyed them.
If you look at the words, names and places it can be a sort of map.
Will talk more tomorrow.
I'm here to throw things out and get others opinion, not their tantrums, and since very little in such long posts is utter nonsense, it makes you wonder. (although not so much after today}
Janiece
I have several theories about the mound builders, some include what the Mormon's believe.
I believe a sea-faring colony migrated either from landing at the east coast or by going around and taking the Mississippi. There is too much evidence. IMHO
But I believe that the Caananites came over and built a colony, they were facing extinction in their lands as the Assyrians and others including Hebrew, that were trying to wipe them out.
That combines with the catastrophic events that IMO were occurring during the time (2000 bc, give or take a couple hundred years.)
The Indians tell of these people and say they were very, very tall and with mostly red hair., but they were such bullies that the Indians grouped together and destroyed them.
If you look at the words, names and places it can be a sort of map.
Will talk more tomorrow.
I'm here to throw things out and get others opinion, not their tantrums, and since very little in such long posts is utter nonsense, it makes you wonder. (although not so much after today}
Janiece
Highmountain
Hero Member
Gossamer said:
Janiece: Since you're a Mormon you're probably also a better historian and far more expert than anyone you'll encounter here at performing sound, original research. The help I've gotten from Mormons over the years should serve as a model for PHD candidates in History.
Having said that, there are a lot of websites that explore the premise you've put forward, though it's probably somewhat further in the past than you're accustomed to going, the same techniques for finding solid information apply.
Good luck to you. I hope you'll share what you find here. Sounds interesting.
Jack
Janiece::I am not at all familiar with the Mormon beliefs regarding any of this migration. Is there a chance you would have some links you could share so I could become more familiar with the events. I do love how you relate a lot of what you discuss to bible events...at least that is something I have some familiarity with and can wrap my lil mind around a bit. It always helps to have something to relate it to that I am familiar with to some extent. Thanks so much for all your input here...I am learning a great deal from all of you!
cactusjumper
Gold Member
I don't believe Gossamer has ever stated that she is a Mormon, but perhaps that has been conveyed in a private message or email.
I know the Mormon religion quite well, including their history, but have never been a Mormon.
In any case, I find many similarities between Mormon history and the legends and history of the Americas.
Joe Ribaudo
I know the Mormon religion quite well, including their history, but have never been a Mormon.
In any case, I find many similarities between Mormon history and the legends and history of the Americas.
Joe Ribaudo
aaah so it was not just me that had not seen where she had said she was mormon...I thought I may have missed something. lol I probably miss a lot in reality but I am learning. I would be interested to hear about the similarities in the Mormon beliefs and the Americas history. Certainly no reason that I can not learn from the Mormon beliefs regarding history without being Mormon
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Cynangyl said:aaah so it was not just me that had not seen where she had said she was mormon...I thought I may have missed something. lol I probably miss a lot in reality but I am learning. I would be interested to hear about the similarities in the Mormon beliefs and the Americas history. Certainly no reason that I can not learn from the Mormon beliefs regarding history without being Mormon
That makes 3 of us who didn't realize she was Mormon
I too would be quite interested in the ties between Mormons and the early SW Americas
Highmountain
Hero Member
Cynangyl said:aaah so it was not just me that had not seen where she had said she was mormon...I thought I may have missed something. lol I probably miss a lot in reality but I am learning. I would be interested to hear about the similarities in the Mormon beliefs and the Americas history. Certainly no reason that I can not learn from the Mormon beliefs regarding history without being Mormon
Janiece: If I wrongly accused you of being a Mormon [or excellent historian] I apologize for having read too much into your post. No offense intended.
Sincere apologies.
Jack
Oroblanco
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Highmountain wrote:
Highmountain also wrote:
From your deprecating remarks Jack it is very apparent that you are not well acquainted with some of our members here, including Janiece, who are quite expert in the field of research. As you have expressed your doubts already, combined with the "left handed" apologies to our mutual amigo Gossamer, I would suggest that you test the members here with some questions. I am confident that you will be pleasantly surprised.
Oroblanco
Highmountain also wrote:
From your deprecating remarks Jack it is very apparent that you are not well acquainted with some of our members here, including Janiece, who are quite expert in the field of research. As you have expressed your doubts already, combined with the "left handed" apologies to our mutual amigo Gossamer, I would suggest that you test the members here with some questions. I am confident that you will be pleasantly surprised.
Oroblanco
Highmountain
Hero Member
Oroblanco said:
Oro: Evidently you believe there's something negative about being Mormon. I don't, and quite frankly your implying it's such says a great deal about you and nothing at all about Mormons. I was sincere in what I said in both posts. I don't know whether she's a Mormon, but if she is my guess is that she's probably a more expert historian than you, or me.
Having said that, I'm also a bit taken aback by your sustained defensiveness and determination to read the worst into my posts. I've given you no reason to do so. If you're feeling insecure on your own behalf I have no problem with it. But please don't superimpose it into my discussions with those other than yourself.
I don't have a problem with you, and I certainly don't have a problem with Janiece, whatever religion she might be. As for asking questions, I'll make my posts as I feel the desire, questions or otherwise, with civility and no attempts to bait, hector, obliquely attack as some prefer to do.
Jack
Highmountain said:Cynangyl said:aaah so it was not just me that had not seen where she had said she was mormon...I thought I may have missed something. lol I probably miss a lot in reality but I am learning. I would be interested to hear about the similarities in the Mormon beliefs and the Americas history. Certainly no reason that I can not learn from the Mormon beliefs regarding history without being Mormon
Janiece: If I wrongly accused you of being a Mormon [or excellent historian] I apologize for having read too much into your post. No offense intended.
Sincere apologies.
Jack
I must admit at first glance the above reference did sound as if you were also apologizing for wrongly accusing Janiece of being an excellent historian.
Kinda made me look twice then I decided it surely was not meant to come across the way I first saw it. This might have been where the misunderstanding was with Oro as well. Hope you and all my other friends here have a great day today!LMAO
NO OFFENSE, this tables it, I liked being compared to the Mormon's... it just got all turned around. We are all very good.
I waited for your post ORO... never disappointed!.. you are such a gentleman, I know I've stepped on some toes, but it makes you think, makes you turn the cube for a different view.
NO I am not a Mormon, I just research... I see patterns where others see red tape or what I call bait and switch... answering questions with questions and using the mystical for anything other than delight and wonder.
That said, I'm an open book.. I came to this forum to share... which is what I thought it was for. The other forum I've been involved with for 13 yrs, is what Dan Brown took and made for his book, The DaVinci Code... the forum shared and he wrote... thats a good thing, but he should have had a lot more thank you's and credits for lots of others life work (not me).
But we shared... or rather that forum shared... I learned.
What it taught me was that the best way to hide is in plain sight, I got to thinking about Myths and Legends of America, and S. America, while its been brutally shreaded, first by Spainish conquest, then by diffussionism, religion, uncontrolled greed and basically the shaping of young minds like a computer a very small one. I step outside the box... a word can open a world for me.. I will go back to its etymoligy, first use, how its used by the bible and ultimely the polictics and society in which it was used. Those are keys.
As I said, and my holy rolling family freak on, the Old Testament is a VERY important historical document, but not the last word. Just a guide. The New Testament is exactly what it says "Good News" although I have my issues on the first council of Nicea and there decision and protrayal of issues, I won't go into.
I will not and do not defame the precious word. I'm a researcher by hobby, with a side of art history.
I won't go into who is right or wrong, Christian, Catholic, Mormon or Capt Kangaroo.
I like the lively banter here, I want input, if its something you aren't comfortable bringing on the table, send me a private message.
One thing that sent me off was the Story of the ship the Pearl, there are other things that will come out, but its a fun thread, and anything anyone wants to run by me is ok, I may disagree, but I will prove or disprove it to MY satifaction.
There will be no flights of fancy, no backward writing although that seems to work for Da Vinci (some of his notebooks were in mirror language) and everyone here is more than interesting even with quirks, shoot I have a bunch. But the banter is where new things go, it interupts the steady, (sometimes stupid) flow we get stuck in.
Break out... open your minds, throw things out... lets find some treasure, its hiding in plain sight/site.
And I'm learning some more Spainish.
Janiece
NO OFFENSE, this tables it, I liked being compared to the Mormon's... it just got all turned around. We are all very good.
I waited for your post ORO... never disappointed!.. you are such a gentleman, I know I've stepped on some toes, but it makes you think, makes you turn the cube for a different view.
NO I am not a Mormon, I just research... I see patterns where others see red tape or what I call bait and switch... answering questions with questions and using the mystical for anything other than delight and wonder.
That said, I'm an open book.. I came to this forum to share... which is what I thought it was for. The other forum I've been involved with for 13 yrs, is what Dan Brown took and made for his book, The DaVinci Code... the forum shared and he wrote... thats a good thing, but he should have had a lot more thank you's and credits for lots of others life work (not me).
But we shared... or rather that forum shared... I learned.
What it taught me was that the best way to hide is in plain sight, I got to thinking about Myths and Legends of America, and S. America, while its been brutally shreaded, first by Spainish conquest, then by diffussionism, religion, uncontrolled greed and basically the shaping of young minds like a computer a very small one. I step outside the box... a word can open a world for me.. I will go back to its etymoligy, first use, how its used by the bible and ultimely the polictics and society in which it was used. Those are keys.
As I said, and my holy rolling family freak on, the Old Testament is a VERY important historical document, but not the last word. Just a guide. The New Testament is exactly what it says "Good News" although I have my issues on the first council of Nicea and there decision and protrayal of issues, I won't go into.
I will not and do not defame the precious word. I'm a researcher by hobby, with a side of art history.
I won't go into who is right or wrong, Christian, Catholic, Mormon or Capt Kangaroo.
I like the lively banter here, I want input, if its something you aren't comfortable bringing on the table, send me a private message.
One thing that sent me off was the Story of the ship the Pearl, there are other things that will come out, but its a fun thread, and anything anyone wants to run by me is ok, I may disagree, but I will prove or disprove it to MY satifaction.
There will be no flights of fancy, no backward writing although that seems to work for Da Vinci (some of his notebooks were in mirror language) and everyone here is more than interesting even with quirks, shoot I have a bunch. But the banter is where new things go, it interupts the steady, (sometimes stupid) flow we get stuck in.
Break out... open your minds, throw things out... lets find some treasure, its hiding in plain sight/site.
And I'm learning some more Spainish.
Janiece
oh my....you were amazing enough with what knowledge you had and now you choose to throw in another language?! lol Cool deal! I only know a few words and phrases in other languages and have always admired my friends that speak more than one language fluently. Some of us tend to stumble in just one!
Yes I can see where that would be helpful to learn in that respect. Kinda like when I worked security at the resort and would have to ask some of the employees from housekeeping that came in if they needed keys or tell them we needed them to go to a certain room with towels or something.....some phrases we learn are out of need....some are helpful to what we need to do. I have yet to actually learn enough to converse though other than to ask how someone is doing or tell them to have a nice day! lol
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