Stone Charts of the Superstitions

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Hal,

[I am going to have another look at your theory regarding the Superstition peak. Is that the name of the peak that I highlighted in the image above? Thanks!]

I BELIEVE:

If you don't realize that the hill you have pointed out in your post is not visible from the desert floor to the south of the range, you need to reconsider your method of research completely. Also, if you have no idea where Superstition Peak is, (I believe) you are at a distinct disadvantage in applying the topography of the range to your theories.

Being unable to transfer where you are standing in the Supe's to the topographic map you are carrying is a a sure way to loose your way or take a wrong turn when you are in trouble and need the safest route out of the mountains, or back to your camp. That can be a recipe for disaster, or even death. It's very important to know the topography of the land you are moving through..........ahead of time. Google Earth is one tool but not the complete picture, as you have just demonstrated.

All of the above is just my personal opinion, so I could be wrong.

I considered sending this to you in private but, I believe, the recent deaths in the mountains make this post relevant to newbies.

I hope you are not offended, as it is not intended that way.

Good luck and take care,

Joe
 

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cactusjumper,
Don't be concerned about sending me private messages. Everything you said is correct and good advice. Honestly, if you reread your initial post, you wrote it in a way that suggested another possible name... sometimes you are a little cryptic in your posts which makes it complicated to know what it is that you are trying to communicate. A disadvantage for any newbie trying to learn the SWA. After four trips in to the SWA, amazingly I somehow always find my way out... and I never take along a topo!
 

Hal,

The problems usually arise when you bushwack through the range, climbing off the trails and canyons. What may look passable on satellite views, may turn out to be a nightmare on the ground, or not even possible without some serious climbing gear and experience.

Slopes that don't look too bad from the air, are often loose shale that can send you on a quick trip to nowhere. Even experienced hands can find themselves in trouble. Read Sims Ely's rescue of Jim Bark on the north end of Bluff Spring Mountain.

If you are not very familiar with topographis maps, they can give you the same problems as what you are using. Hard to plan your hike without a topo' or GPS. Topo's always work, which can't always be said for GPS. I always carried both, once GPS became available.

Take care,

Joe
 

Hal:

"If that is the site, then those holes could have been excavated anytime after the stones were found or the story made public."

Yep,that would be obvious to anyone who has been there.When exactly,is only best guesswork based on available testimony.

I am sure you have an alternate theory for the 5 and dots,and are encouraged to follow your own research.
Not mine or anyone else s.
Following any others' trail will,of course,lead to the same discoveries made by any one of us out there in the mountains.
If you believe the Mormons responsible for the Stone Maps,by all means follow up on that belief.
I am merely stating my own beliefs,based on my own research and fieldwork,so that those reading these topics have a diversity of evidence placed before them.
cactusjumper said:
Hal,

[I am going to have another look at your theory regarding the Superstition peak. Is that the name of the peak that I highlighted in the image above? Thanks!]

I BELIEVE:

If you don't realize that the hill you have pointed out in your post is not visible from the desert floor to the south of the range, you need to reconsider your method of research completely. Also, if you have no idea where Superstition Peak is, (I believe) you are at a distinct disadvantage in applying the topography of the range to your theories.

Being unable to transfer where you are standing in the Supe's to the topographic map you are carrying is a a sure way to loose your way or take a wrong turn when you are in trouble and need the safest route out of the mountains, or back to your camp. That can be a recipe for disaster, or even death. It's very important to know the topography of the land you are moving through..........ahead of time. Google Earth is one tool but not the complete picture, as you have just demonstrated.

All of the above is just my personal opinion, so I could be wrong.

I considered sending this to you in private but, I believe, the recent deaths in the mountains make this post relevant to newbies.

I hope you are not offended, as it is not intended that way.

Good luck and take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe:

I agree 100%
You said what needed to be said.

Regards:SH.
 

cactusjumper,
There are other methods for making your way... know before you go and well, I won't bore you with my approach. People made their way into the wilderness long before there were topos and GPS. Knowing where you are at all times is perhaps the best advice one can offer newbies... and oldies.

Springfield,
There are so many things that tie these groups together in history. If you dig deeper into Mormon, Freemason, KGC, and Jesuit history it is difficult to know where the lines that define these groups begin and end. It could be that at several points in history the different groups each played a role in the exploration of the Superstitions. I consider the Mormon possibility a very real one, in part based on the documented behavior of their founder J. Smith and the corrupt nature of that groups leadership. If you want insight into what they (LDS leadership) are capable of producing, read up on Mark W. Hofmann, the genius and broken product of the Mormon sect.

somehiker,
Yes, we each need to follow our own path. I have seen your images and considered what you have shared here and elsewhere. Some of those photographs of yours are amazing and have made me rethink my own solution, several times. Was it a Mormon who carved the stone charts? I can not say, but there is overwhelming evidence to suggest a Mormon involvement. For me anyway. The answer will come once the stone charts are scientifically dated.
 

Hal,

"The answer will come once the stone charts are scientifically dated."

How do you date stone to the period you are looking for? If you are talking about dating the glue that holds the broken heart together, if it is ever done, the results will likely prove inconclusive. You might be able to date the glue to the approximate date that the heart was broken, but how precise that date will be is questionable.

Perhaps Paul might know that answer.

Jim Hatt first suggested that method to the museum and the possibility was rejected. I don't believe anyone who owns those maps wants them dated. It's only treasure hunters who seem to be excited by the prospect.

Take care,

Joe
 

cactusjumper,
I don't remember the method used but the Palo Verdes anchors, discovered by Bob Meistroll were sucessfully dated. I am not sure what method Jim was suggesting but if there is a noninvasive test, and the funds to pay for it, I can not imagine why anyone would have issue with giving it a try. Testing glue would only let us know when the heart was repaired, not much help when you think about it. I will try to find the name of the specialist who dated the anchors.
 

I wanted to share this print some time ago but the Mormon topic seems to be a contentious one around here. It is not that difficult to draw a connection to the Priest stone base just on the image and without knowing the source and context... which for now is how I want the print to be considered. Like the De Smet statue and the La Barge name, this print has a very real connection to the Mormons.

 

Hal - can you put your print into some sort of context for us? Who did it, when, where, why, etc...?

Thanks
 

Hal Croves said:
....Springfield,
There are so many things that tie these groups together in history. If you dig deeper into Mormon, Freemason, KGC, and Jesuit history it is difficult to know where the lines that define these groups begin and end. It could be that at several points in history the different groups each played a role in the exploration of the Superstitions. I consider the Mormon possibility a very real one, in part based on the documented behavior of their founder J. Smith and the corrupt nature of that groups leadership. If you want insight into what they (LDS leadership) are capable of producing, read up on Mark W. Hofmann, the genius and broken product of the Mormon sect.....
Click to expand...

Quite right. The lines intertwine when you climb the ladder. Hoffman, in it for the $$, continued a long tradition of forged documents and artifacts needed to support LDS claims.
 

Hello my friends, if you don't want me.to put my two cents in just tell me.if you need help on the stones, ask me and I will answer the best I can.whatup I ca tell you is you can't find assume anything.the map does not tell you the starting point.I remember someone telling me that there was a vista somewhere by the bend.I never found any evidence on kinos maps.hal if you want to meet me in Arizona i'll show you the location and markings.I have a great respect for you
where.
You must all remember that the stones were found in the middle of nowhere.do you look at the stones and automatically know which out of a thousand is the real peak.and I mentioned that the X's you call the trail is true but the distances between them is in catastrophe.this makes it even harder to find.that's why it took me over 25 years.for sure now is time to show the horse.just so you don't think im a nut.take care.
 

Peralta,

"for sure now is time to show the horse.just so you don't think im a nut."

I don't see how anyone could think you are a nut....case. :dontknow:

Good luck,

Joe
 

Peralta:

I have a question.
Since you offered to answer.

There is one inscription on the stones,which has never been explained to the best of my knowledge.

2=3-@-18=7

Could you,or any other who has solved the Stone Maps,tell the rest of us what it means
and why it is inscribed in that manner and at that location on the stone?

Regards:SH.
 

somehiker said:
Peralta:

I have a question.
Since you offered to answer.

There is one inscription on the stones,which has never been explained to the best of my knowledge.

2=3-@-18=7

Could you,or any other who has solved the Stone Maps,tell the rest of us what it means
and why it is inscribed in that manner and at that location on the stone?

Regards:SH.
Click to expand...

Guess that was to tough a question for him..........Reminds me of someone :icon_scratch: Was waiting for that little bit of brilliance so i could move on with my life! :laughing9: :tongue3:

BEN THAR DUN ER
 

Tim:

Yah,thought it might be a.... :icon_scratch:

Kinda figure the foundits are a lot like someone who read the back cover of the first volume of War and Peace ,
and without reading any of what Tolstoy put between the covers of the entire set,
can now tell us anything we want to know about gematria.
Not saying that's what it is.
Or I know what it means.
But it's one way of looking at it. :icon_cyclops_ani:

Hal Croves said:
I wanted to share this print some time ago but the Mormon topic seems to be a contentious one around here. It is not that difficult to draw a connection to the Priest stone base just on the image and without knowing the source and context... which for now is how I want the print to be considered. Like the De Smet statue and the La Barge name, this print has a very real connection to the Mormons.


​
Click to expand...

"I was hoping for some feedback from readers based just on that image when comparing it to the Priest stone"

Hal:

Can't see much resemblance between your Mormon missionary and the "Priest" on the stone.
Other than they are both "frocked".
A bit of wiki work shows the Salt River camp in Missouri (Independence) to have played a vital part in the Mormon exodus.
A search for "Mormonism/the spirit world" shows the Mormons to have some interesting beliefs on the subject,and links to your graphic.
Mormon H.T. shows the acronym to mean "Home Teaching",with "Heart" or heart-to-heart talks being an important part of Mormon H.T. methods.

Other than that:
The "spirit" has a beard,but no pointy hat.
He don't need a haircut.
Now that I think of it...neither did Chuck Aylor...did he?
He's carrying a hiking staff and a carpet bag,but no cross.
And he's got legs and feet too.

Perhaps if you had asked your "artist friend" to add the pointy hat,as you did with the "padre" you posted earlier,you would get more feedback.

Regards:SH.
 

somehiker,
That is odd that you mention that image since I wrote to you specifically and told you that it was done by "a graphic designer friend with a sense of humor". The original hat is tall, but not pointed. Yes. How many months have you been stewing over that? Why not just comment on it then? Can't help think that your post was an aggressive way to express yourself. Your online search turned up a few things about that image but the H.T. may actually be a person. I hope that you are not one of those sensitive types that refuses to entertain new ideas or someone who gets offended easily. This last image got you thinking, and that is why I posted it without an explanation. It is also unedited/untouched. You seem to be convinced that your way of reading the stones is the correct way. If you have not yet shared a full explanation of your theory, I certainly would like to read it... here, and if possible your idea of who carved the stones.

On a side note, mocking Peralta's posts and claims seems a bit premature. If everyone were treated this way, you would be left reading only your own posts. Give Peralta a chance to share what he has found. A little encouragement goes a long way.

"A search for "Mormonism/the spirit world" shows the Mormons to have some interesting beliefs on the subject,and links to your graphic". Could you share the link to this image? Took me some effort to find that image and it was not online.
_________________________________


There is enough in history and legend to suggest a connection between the Mormons, the Superstitions, and the stone charts. I think that the stones are the work of a genius, no matter who designed them. If they are modern the date is 1935-1949, using a camera and encrypting an aerial image. Perhaps the Mormons were shown the old Spanish/Jesuit mines by the Apache, or maybe the Mormon/Jesuit connection is more real then we understand. That story of the stones being stolen is so important. Whatever happened to the person who was writing about the theft? Anyone?

Anyway, this is a good example of Mormon & lost mines: http://www.realtreasurehunts.net/2010/10/lost-rhoads-mine.html
 

Happy 2012 to all, glad to see I did not loose ground with my absence, LOL.

I'm too am interested in the Mormon history and involvement on the State of Arizona. My research has confirmed to me that my ancestors were involved in some sense with the Order of American Knights. And since I think that everything south of the 33rd parallel was part of a long standing 'secession' movement, started long before the Civil War. I think there are loads of possibilities of mysteries and concerning different factions aligning with differing and sometimes opposite goals.

Found a trail in Texas in 1863 that my gGrandfather was held for suspicion of robbery, murder and involvement in a secret society, caught and held by Confederate Forces, but then released on $200 bail, the trail from that is murkier. There is also accounts of he and his parents going with the Mormons in an early document, though they returned to TX, KS, AR and continued there. And a great account of their living very close to where the 'Bender Serial Murderers' lived in Kansas.

Also, seems that the family was heavily into the Steamboat business, which is what may have helped lead my ggGrandfather to Arkansas in the first place. I'm doing a lot of research on this, and several others things.

So goes my hunt for them, and why it keeps trailing back to this.
Gossamer/Janiece :hello:
 

Hello ben there done that, that's a good question.the first part second (x) is the way to the mine.from there you connect the triangle to the min and tail to smarking. Second x .the second part is distance to horse.hope you seen my horse.they only have the c'est in short distance of catastrophe.the horse is long distance and would be 18 long distances. The X's are visible but its like a needle in a haystack to find.
Hal, did you see the horse I posted?its easy to see, from left top corner put imaginary line to right bottom corner.follow line down about 1".look for half of a dark circle.it touches the horse head.the top of dark half touches the ear.the bottom
 

Gossamer,
"Also, seems that the family was heavily into the Steamboat business, which is what may have helped lead my ggGrandfather to Arkansas in the first place. I'm doing a lot of research on this, and several others things."

Yes, steamboats on the Missouri. That part of history is absolutely amazing. Riverboat captains knew everyone worth knowing. I am slowly piecing together the origins of the names of canyons in the Superstitions and the name La Barge leads to the Missouri.. and to steamboats. It may be a coincidence but there are a few Captain La Barges that have a connection to the Missouri, Mormons and the Jesuits.

The most famous Captain La Barge knew B. Young quite well as he had piloted hundreds (perhaps even a few thousand) of European Mormon immigrants to places like Council Bluffs and Omaha.

"In the course of this movement large bodies of Mormons remained encamped for long periods on both shores of the Missouri near Council Bluffs and Omaha. The situation became the great rendezvous for the expeditions before starting across the plains, and it was here that the Mormons came into relation with the steamboat traffic of the Missouri".

Captain La Barge's opinion of BY and the Mormons:

"He knew the Mormons well... He always liked them and had several warm friends among them. He was introduced to BY by Peter A. Sarpy at Bellevue (An American Fur Company location). Young impressed him from the first as a man of great ability.... He impressed La Barge as anything but a religious fanatic or even enthusiast; but he knew how to make use of the fanaticism of others and direct it to great ends... In the Mormon movement he had found his niche. He saw in it the opportunity to achieve power and fame, to amass a fortune, and to become a great leader."

Captain La Barge had a less favorable opinion of J. Smith. Captain La Barge was also something of a legend in his own time and his wealth (in some part) came from the Mormon leadership who paid in him gold. That is a fact... however payments in gold were not unusual then.

This Captain La Barge also knew the man on that monument I wrote about... the Mormon monument (above). Father De Smet and Captain La Barge knew each other and always exchanged information (sometime confidential) and copies of De Smet's work. De Smet and many of the passengers on board one June, 1851 journey fell ill to cholera. De Smet was cared for by another Jesuit, a hero who doctored all the ill passengers. Father Hoecken is credited for saving everyone who survived but he died twelve days out of St Louis. Captain La Barge had Father Hoecken buried and on the return trip from Ft. Union, the body was dug up and taken "under protest of the passengers" back to St. Louis "and buried in the Novitiate of the Society of Jesus Florissant". So, it may all be circumstantial evidence but it is also not accurate to claim that there are no connections between the Jesuits, the Mormons, and now even a famous Captain La Barge. Lots of coincidences sometimes reveal patterns.

The second Captain La Barge died in a horrible explosion along with a few hundred steamboat passengers (many of them Mormon immigrants). And the third Captain La Barge died at the wheel of a heart attack. They were all brothers and as remarkable as their lives were, their father (who paddled a canoe from Canada to St. Louis with only eight portages) has an even greater story. All of the La Barges in Canada and in the U.S. can be traced back to one La Barge that came from France in the 1600's.

So, is it possible that La Barge canyon was named by Mormons? Since not one person on this thread has offered another reason for the La Barge name (I have asked) this connection is worth considering... or simply just knowing. One thing for sure is that it should not be dismissed.

One other thing. That line that you describe is actually part of a great circle that reaches into the U.S. with Havana at the center. A circle of territory in which slavery would drive the economy. I hope that you are writing down your family history. It sounds fascinating.
 

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