Ship Bell Found

[BillA]

an example - but not the right one (the plants at his feet have a specific import)
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/BK-NM-5290.jpg

from the Historyblog

Bill

 

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[Skream1]

AARC, interesting possibilities abound. Some of my own research suggests dates anywhere from the mid 16th century, all the way up to about 1840-although you can imagine which direction I'd rather it go. Many more bells were etched after 1830 than there were ones founded, so far as lettering goes. And, yes, it is a bit of a bother that I don't seem to come up with a name for a wreck with the 'same' spelling, although there is an Esteban wreck off Padre Island, in the Gulf. We'll keep researching-which is fascinating on its own. So far, I've gone in the direction of foundries in Spain and Italy, which both had a long history of such cannon and bell foundries.

 

[ARC]

Agreed.

I have been looking into something for the last hour... symbolism legend(s) on early metal works... to again no avail... but none the less interesting as well.

Skream... nice of you to finally join us

Too bad I must tap out for a bit... will bbiab.

have something pressing at moment.

 

[BillA]

Skream1, schedule on scan? - considered an x-ray?

I had a fine point mounted in fossilized bone and I wanted to see the base; I took the knife to a local emergency clinic and they were interested so took a half dozen exposures and it was eventually perfect - and no charge.
a thought

Bill

 

[xaos]

that would be estefan!



you never read my posts

Look at this, almost an exact match!

View attachment 1691697

It is interesting that this is almost an exact match of the pattern

 

[Red_desert]

That, I kinda was thinking some old map might have had the same pattern. I seen a couple examples in recent years... these old maps turn up and someone wanted to buy it for millions and the finder refused to sell it. The map owner made lithographs with a profit of 20 million dollars at the time. Then the other map, must have seen it on PBS History detectives but maybe a map study could give clues also.

I don't know if any maps do, only thought it might be a possibility.

 

[ARC]

It is interesting that this is almost an exact match of the pattern

xaos... what exactly are we looking at in that picture ? ? ?

 

[ARC]

That, I kinda was thinking some old map might have had the same pattern. I seen a couple examples in recent years... these old maps turn up and someone wanted to buy it for millions and the finder refused to sell it. The map owner made lithographs with a profit of 20 million dollars at the time. Then the other map, must have seen it on PBS History detectives but maybe a map study could give clues also.

I don't know if any maps do, only thought it might be a possibility.

I stated this early on.

 

[Red_desert]

I looked at maps but not up close enough, at least didn't spot anything looking at the thumbnails. Something else came to mind... look at old coins. If these palm branches are 3 on each side with 1 on top we have a symbol for what under Roman occupation was known as the Palistia of Syria. The territory included Jordan, Syria, parts of Iraq and Judea. I forgot that I do have 2 coins from Palestine before it went back to being a Jewish state. On the front is an olive branch, 3 leaflets on each side with a single leaflet on top (same as the palm branches). The pattern is a "7" leaflet or palm branches a symbol of Palestine. If the upside V shape is meant to be a triangular design, I would conclude it must be Arab. But knowing how Spain had imported various symbolism from other cultures, maybe Spanish?

 

[xaos]

xaos... what exactly are we looking at in that picture ? ? ?

a drawer pull!

I am thinking Dutch

 

[catyron]

*TAFAN is what i see... and i agree with PetesPockets55 -- that makes me think of Estafan.

 

[xaos]

GHATAFAN is Persian...this would also may explain the circle with 2 lines....jeez, what a direction?!?!

Dutch influence from the Persian Gulf?

BTW, you have any dimensions on this?

 

[BillA]

"GHATAFAN is Islamic.."
in latin script? not likely

Bill

edit: and the bough you posted has fruit, probably a different plant

 

[Skream1]

I have been reading all of the posts, since finding that someone posted a 'borrowed' picture of the artifact. The palmett pattern is very close-and if it were in a Catholic country might suggest a religious connection i.e. Palm Sunday being associated with Christ and the Cross. But, I'm probably taking it too far and too literal.

 

[BillA]

an early colonial palmetto (invisible to me) from historyblog.com

There’s drawing of a Palmetto tree and what may be a cahow, a rare sea bird found only in Bermuda. Strachey was stranded in Bermuda for 10 months on his way to Virginia.This entry was posted on Monday, January 18th, 2010 at 11:09 PM and is filed under Modern(ish), Treasures.

Bill

edit: Sabal Palmetto SC

photo by Kerry Wixted on Flickr

2ed edit:
[FONT=&quot]Palm in Christian Symbolism.—In pre-Christian times the palm was regarded as a symbol of victory (Aulus Gellius, “Noct. Att.”, III, vi). It was adopted by the early Christians, and became a symbol of the victory of the faithful over the enemies of the soul. The palm, says Origen (In Joan., XXXI), is the symbol of victory in that war waged by the spirit against the flesh. In this sense it was especially applicable to martyrs, the victors par excellence over the spiritual foes of mankind; hence the frequent occurrence in the Acts of the martyrs of such expressions as “he received the palm of martyrdom.” On April 10, 1688 it was decided by the Congregation of Rites that the palm when found depicted on catacomb tombs was to be regarded as a proof that a martyr had been interred there. Subsequently this opinion was acknowledged by Mabillon, Muratori, Benedict XIV and others to be untenable; further investigation showed that the palm was represented not only on tombs of the post-persecution era, but even on pagan tombs. The general significance of the palm on early Christian monuments is slightly modified according to its association with other symbols (e.g., with the monogram of Christ, the Fish, the Good Shepherd). On some later monuments the palm was represented merely as an ornament separating two scenes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MAURICE M. HASSETT[/FONT]

 

[sailaway]

Have been researching and so far have looked in the records of ships in Cadiz Harbor, Spain the jumping off point for the New World.




French Navy Escort Frigate:
Infante, 36 guns, launched June 1661 at Brest — renamed Ecueil in June 1671; wrecked off Puerto Rico 25 February 1673.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_frigate_Infante_(1661)

ship............,,,tons.......captian.................built.........location..............origin.............. referanced
SAN ESTEVAN....220 ...UZELO, JUAN.........1552........New World.........Dubrovnik.......... Chaunu
SAN STEFANO ...500...DOLISTI, GIORGI...1550-1650....West..............Slano.................Appendini
SAN STEFANO... 800...COLENDA,........,.,...1550-1650....West..............Dubrovnik..........Appendini
Historia Naval de España y Países de habla española. - Ver Tema - Marinos extranjeros al servicio de España. (I)

Researching I found that there were ships in Spain Service with mis-Cast names on the bells

 

[Blak bart]

Another popular design in wood carving besides the palmette, is the acanthus leaf......the design on the bell looks simalar to these patterns also. This motif has been popular for many years and was used extensively during the baroque era (16-1700s). If there is a connection to the estafan family it could very well be a plantation bell carried off in a raid. These bells would very often have the family name on them or the plantation name on them. That might be a bit of a stretch but just throwing it out there. Anything is possible. I'm leaning toward a ships bell also but cant work out the wording....ghatafan....that's interesting and I've been trying to work out a prefix also. That's the best I've seen so far in that direction.

 

[Blak bart]

Look closely at the lower center of the picture and tell me that's not close.View attachment 1705788

 

[Blak bart]

Sometimes these pics just dont take on the first try. #**$^#^!^ !!

 

[Blak bart]

It's a decorative band done in an acanthus leaf motif. That was a decorative motif or style. No connotations to any thing else. I'm saying it relates to the baroque era of style. Palmettes, ancathus leaf, flur de lis, florets etc. Were all common to this time frame. They are declarative flourishes common to the 16-1700s otherwise known as the baroque era.