Season 4

[jeff of pa]

If it is a ships nail, shouldn't there be a lot more of them? Right there in the same area? I think they knew it was a spike, and sold it as a nail for the show...next weeks gold looks like a better episode.[emoji106]

if it is gold and not brass

 

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[skybolt]

if it is gold and not brass

They'll probably locate something and then decide to ditch the effort and dig a hole in Nolan's backyard instead.

 

[Andy Nunez]

Is there any evidence Kidd went north of New York? When I did research about Kidd for my book Pirates of the Eastern Shore, he sailed from the Caribbean after swapping the Quetta Merchant and stopped in several places to let off crew members with their takes of loot from converting cargo of the Quetta Merchant, then ended up, IIRC in New Castle Delaware, where he entertained some local merchants who bought some more merchandise. Next, we left some loot with a local barkeep and then buried the rest, traditionally on Gardiner Island before his fateful decision to put his faith in an old friend who promptly had him locked up and relentlessly pursued all the loot, even the goods from the Delaware merchants before sending Kidd to England to hang. His crew were rather restless and eager to be done, so I can't seeing them using up oodles of time sailing up to Oak Island and making some elaborate underground chamber. Benjamin Hornigold was probably the pirate with the most knowledge and manpower to build such a system, considering the amount of coordination he put in to plunder the 1715 fleet's wreckage, but again, why make such an elaborate system so far from home base? I am more willing to accept either some wayward Templars (or even Prince Madoc) or the British (who had all the skills and manpower available during the 50 year period leading up to the Revolution, and the motive (looting the French after the Seven Years War) to hide it until safe transport could be arrange. I guess, unless they find something real down there, we'll never know for sure.

 

[rabidus]

LOL They dug a Railroad Spike tonight & called it a Ships Nail.

View attachment 1395344

Now I don't know, Perhaps they used RR Spikes for ships Also.
I don't know. But I Do know, If I dug it,
I would think it came from a Railroad or Mine
or someones Souvenir.

either way, a spike doesn't mean anything else is there,
but I'd be checking if there as a rail used somewhere on the island at one time

Yes, when I was there in the 80's there were tracks and at least one mining cart on them. I recall seeing at least 100 feet of track. Since this spike looks exactly like the millions of railway spikes used by CP and CN throughout Canada, I would think it's safe to say that it's likely from the mining rail.

I believe a mining cart is now on display in the museum at the entrance of the island.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

If it is a ships nail, shouldn't there be a lot more of them? Right there in the same area? I think they knew it was a spike, and sold it as a nail for the show...next weeks gold looks like a better episode.[emoji106]

The rest were swept out to see via the make believe flood tunnels that never existed...

 

[Customx_12]

Incidentally, I never heard that "7 must die" garbage they talk about. Was that even a rumor before this show or just something they added to make it sound more dangerous?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I think that started in the 60's after the six.

If someone can predict that well they also ought to know what, if anything, is buried there and where. More nonsense.

Personally I hope it is the series narrator.

"A piece of wood? On an island?" Bang!

 

[gemee]

LOL They dug a Railroad Spike tonight & called it a Ships Nail.

View attachment 1395344

Now I don't know, Perhaps they used RR Spikes for ships Also.
I don't know. But I Do know, If I dug it,
I would think it came from a Railroad or Mine
or someones Souvenir.

either way, a spike doesn't mean anything else is there,
but I'd be checking if there as a rail used somewhere on the island at one time

This would be easy enough to carbon date and prove the age.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Carbon dating only works on once-living material, like wood. Can't use it on metal.

 

[Roadhse2]

This would be easy enough to carbon date and prove the age.

The problem with that is much of the carbon, especially in a forged piece, depends on the carbon absorbed into the piece from the fuel used to heat it to temp....which then can give a false reading of being older than it really is....

" In addition to fossil fuels such as coal and coke, other carbon sources such as geological carbonates (e.g., limestone and siderite), shell, or old wood (which are all depleted in 14C) will cause artifacts to appear to be older than they are"

Sourced here....Using Radiocarbon Dating to Establish the Age of Iron-Based Artifacts

 

[gazzahk]

I don't know, gazzahk. Claims of a treasure map ... lost in a fire. Claims of old coins ... also lost in a fire. Story of an old trunk with 25 heavy bags of gold in it ... mysteriously disappearing. Yet nothing there to actually verify any of these claims.

It was three hundred years ago.. Stuff happens.. Things go missing.

Still I will be very disappointed if the brothers do not spend at least one of the next episodes reviewing the descendants story in more detail.

I would guess they would seeing it was them that raised the stroy in the first place.

My guess it will be in the final episode they will present some version of checking out the story and leaving it hanging..

Was there treasure on Oak Island? Did it leave on they day the treasure was found? Something like that...

I doubt that anything can be proved one way or the other.

Still as I said I would be very disappointed if they do not address some of the evidence of the descendants story. I accept nothing may come from the investigation....

 

[gazzahk]

I struggle with the logic of this pit dig. This is obviously not the money pit if there is bedrock to drill through no one dug that hole that deep before. Therefore they are hoping that the void they have discovered is the same void that is meant to exist under the money pit. I suppose it is possible..

I too thought that was a railway spike. If a ship was ditched there the evidence would be a lot more one would think..

It is so painfully slow the speed that information is being released....

 

[Raparee]

It was three hundred years ago.. Stuff happens.. Things go missing.

Still I will be very disappointed if the brothers do not spend at least one of the next episodes reviewing the descendants story in more detail.

I would guess they would seeing it was them that raised the stroy in the first place.

My guess it will be in the final episode they will present some version of checking out the story and leaving it hanging..

Was there treasure on Oak Island? Did it leave on they day the treasure was found? Something like that...

I doubt that anything can be proved one way or the other.

Still as I said I would be very disappointed if they do not address some of the evidence of the descendants story. I accept nothing may come from the investigation....

My issue is with the use of the word 'evidence'. Evidence is what is used to validate or support a claim. There are a number of claims made in the Blockhouse blog (old map, gold coins, bags of gold, etc.), but no evidence to support them. Nothing.

 

[Robot]

Knowledge...May be right under...One's Nose!

When searching for Treasure Knowledge...On this Forum...One only needs to Search Under Ones's Own Feet!...Or Nose!



http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/114514-dating-ship-wreck-nails.html

Of course things deteriorate and disappear, especially in rough salt water environments. One thing that was always a problem for wood ships is the Toredo worms. Various things were used over the years in the hope of preventing that type of damage, such as covering the hull with copper or lead or various materials or substances.

Prior to around 1800 hulls were made almost entirely of white oak, possibly with sacrificial planking on the outside of the hull. The sacrificial planking was used on ships that traveled in warm ocean waters, where wooden hulls are susceptible to damage by burrowing marine organisms such as teredo worms. Sacrificial planking was applied to hulls to decrease the risk of damage. This half-inch thick layer of wood, such as pine, was replaced regularly when infested with marine borers. By the late eighteenth century copper sheathing replaced sacrificial planking as the preferred method of hull protection.

There are places on the Treasure Coast where you can still find pieces of lead and copper sheathing. I think the place that seems to produce the most copper sheathing is a later wreck and probably not a treasure wreck.

I've read that pieces of hull and other wood structures were observed on some of the 1715 wrecks into the mid-20th century. I don't know how much wood the salvage crews see on the wrecks anymore. I do know that it wasn't long ago that I found pieces of worm-riddled timbers on the beach. Large sections were found over the years in the dunes at various locations. It can be difficult to tell the age or source of small isolated wood finds like that.

At the top of this post you can see a close up of one piece that I found one time.

Often there will be the remains of iron or other types of metal such as spikes or rods. This piece shown above has a piece of what appears to be a spike and a hole or two where there were once pieces of metal.

The Laginas' finds are building the "Spanishs' Galleons" The Freemasons used to transport their "Treasure" from Havana Cuba...One "Nail" at a Time!

 

[burlbark]

When searching for Treasure Knowledge...On this Forum...One only needs to Search Under Ones's Own Feet!...Or Nose!

View attachment 1395900

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/114514-dating-ship-wreck-nails.html

Of course things deteriorate and disappear, especially in rough salt water environments. One thing that was always a problem for wood ships is the Toredo worms. Various things were used over the years in the hope of preventing that type of damage, such as covering the hull with copper or lead or various materials or substances.

Prior to around 1800 hulls were made almost entirely of white oak, possibly with sacrificial planking on the outside of the hull. The sacrificial planking was used on ships that traveled in warm ocean waters, where wooden hulls are susceptible to damage by burrowing marine organisms such as teredo worms. Sacrificial planking was applied to hulls to decrease the risk of damage. This half-inch thick layer of wood, such as pine, was replaced regularly when infested with marine borers. By the late eighteenth century copper sheathing replaced sacrificial planking as the preferred method of hull protection.

There are places on the Treasure Coast where you can still find pieces of lead and copper sheathing. I think the place that seems to produce the most copper sheathing is a later wreck and probably not a treasure wreck.

I've read that pieces of hull and other wood structures were observed on some of the 1715 wrecks into the mid-20th century. I don't know how much wood the salvage crews see on the wrecks anymore. I do know that it wasn't long ago that I found pieces of worm-riddled timbers on the beach. Large sections were found over the years in the dunes at various locations. It can be difficult to tell the age or source of small isolated wood finds like that.

At the top of this post you can see a close up of one piece that I found one time.

Often there will be the remains of iron or other types of metal such as spikes or rods. This piece shown above has a piece of what appears to be a spike and a hole or two where there were once pieces of metal.

The Laginas' finds are building the "Spanishs' Galleons" The Freemasons used to transport their "Treasure" from Havana Cuba...One "Nail" at a Time!

Are you under the belief that the nail found in the swamp is part of a Galleon?

 

[gazzahk]

My issue is with the use of the word 'evidence'. Evidence is what is used to validate or support a claim. There are a number of claims made in the Blockhouse blog (old map, gold coins, bags of gold, etc.), but no evidence to support them. Nothing.

I am really not sure of your point here Raparee. So I will bite…

What evidence is there.

Lets start with the interview https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x...eason-3-episode-13-secrets-and-revelations_tv (Scroll through until 23 mins)

That the 3 ladies ancestors found 3 treasure chests (at which point Marty claim they have never herd that -which is very interesting of itself given the chests found by Nolan).

The lady states here father got it from his father who received it from his father. Next in response to Martyr’s question of has it been dated. She replies she has taken it to several jewelers and was told it could be as old as 500 years.

To dismiss this requires one to believe the three sisters are blatantly lying about how they got the cross and that they have had multiple jewelers inspect it.
So just a quick google search shows multiple sources supporting oral history is evidence…

Oral history can be defined as the recording, preservation and interpretation of historical information, based on the personal experiences and opinions of the speaker. It may take the form of eye-witness evidence about the past, but can include folklore, myths, songs and stories passed down over the years by word of mouth. While it is an invaluable way of preserving the knowledge and understanding of older people, it can also involve interviewing younger generations.

https://www.le.ac.uk/emoha/training/no1.pdf

Because oral history uses spoken, not written sources, the allowable evidence expands.

Step-by-Step Guide to Oral History

Thus, the Pittsburgh Survey, a Progressive Era investigation of social conditions in that city designed to educate the public and prod it towards civic reform, relied heavily on evidence obtained from oral sources.

What Is Oral History?

Then we get to the blog..

The article from Dan Hennigar is a seperate source from 8 years earlier giving a near identical account from one of the sisters told the brothers. The additional information given here is that the cross

She tells me she now owns the cross and had it examined by appraisers who told her the cross was over 600 years old and was not poured or molded, but was hammered and hand formed, shaped, and is beautiful.

The other evidence refereed to in this interview is that other physical evidence exists in that that additional treasure remains in the family.
The author goes on to give his opinion that he found the story credible.

Thus here is another example of evidence a previous written article that collaborates what we saw on the show and expands what is known about the cross. It also tells us that other treasure remains. Written news articles of eyewitness accounts of stuff are one of the main sources of secondary evidence about almost everything in history since the invention of the printing press.

Newspapers are often the first kind of source historians of the past two centuries will turn to for gathering evidence.

https://chnm.gmu.edu/worldhistorysources/unpacking/newshow.html

The next piece of evidence is the 1929 newspaper article by Driscoll in which he quotes from an interview he had with John McInnies. In this article (which is shown in the blog article) McInnies states that his great grandfather was one of those who discovered treasure on oak island.

The existance of the tresadsure map as evidence is supported by oral history of people that had seen it. This again would require George McInnis to also be lying for no reason if this was not true.

The map existance is supportred by written evidence from a quoted book written in 1899

,"A Search for Pirate Gold" written in 1899 by James Clarence Hyde, which specifically mentions that Daniel McGinnis had been in possession of a treasure map.

This is almost 100 years earlier then the account t given by the authors interview of George.

Historical texts are again one of the main sources of evidence for almost everything that lacks physical evidence.

The next evidence that is referred to is the physical evidence that was seen by D.Greagory and quoted in a 1991 newspaper article

In or around 1925, his grandmother showed him a wooden trunk containing about 25 heavy white canvas bags of gold. His grandmother was Lucy Vaughan, relative of Anthony Vaughan….was said to have come from Oak Island.

this is now from a Vaughan descendant.

So this would now require the conspiracy of lies to not just be the Mc Ginnis family but also the Vaughan family if the whole finding treasure is a lie without evidence.

The claim that parts of the island were purchased by the families was even supported in the last episode with the old map showing the MC Ginnes family to be part owners of the island from the date of the map. The question of where the descendants got the money to buy up oak island is circumstantial evidence that supports the story also. Today if the police suspect you of criminal activity and you cannot show the source of your wealth (in Australia) it is assumed to be evidence that is has come from crime ie the onus is on thye person to prove where they got the wealth . The money they used to buy the island had to come from somewhere. There is evidence that they did buy up at least parts of the island.

The next evidence is the physical evidence of the three chests found by Fred Nolan in the swamp. This is supported by documentary evidence backed up with sworn affidavits that the chests were found. Sworn affidavits are even acceptable evidence in court cases.

The chests are physical evidence that is supportive of the story that the boys found thee chests.

The final piece of evidence referred to is also physical evidence

Some preliminary information we can share based on this conversation is that the gold cross wasn't the only item handed down in that branch of the family. There was also reportedly, a gold nugget, a gold chain and, a gold coin, recovered from the same treasure trove.

There is other physical remains from the treasure that can at some point be viewed and dated…..

If the cross is not being dated and the other evidence not being checked this is because the Laginas are choosing not to do it. It is not because these things do not exist…..

Therefore as said earlier I really do not understand you point that no evidence was offered or exists… You may not find the evidence very convincing but that does not stop it from being evidence…..

As stated earlier there certainly seems sufficient evidence to check out these claims in more detail. dating of the alleged artifacts seems a pretty easy thing for the brothers to do.. I hope they do this in an up and coming episode...

 

[gazzahk]

Maybe someone could explain why they cannot work out the exact location of Chappells shaft from the picture below. Surely there must be enough distinct reference points to work out gps coordinates

From the picture of Cahppels shaft shown on this document


View attachment 1393954

source:

http://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/u..._island_mystery_toronto_les_m_may_22_2013.pdf


If they new the location why not drill the hole there?

 

[franklin]

LOL They dug a Railroad Spike tonight & called it a Ships Nail.

View attachment 1395344

Now I don't know, Perhaps they used RR Spikes for ships Also.
I don't know. But I Do know, If I dug it,
I would think it came from a Railroad or Mine
or someones Souvenir.

either way, a spike doesn't mean anything else is there,
but I'd be checking if there as a rail used somewhere on the island at one time

That is definitely a dinky railroad spike. They probably used a dinky railroad when they cut all the Oak Trees off of Oak Island? That spike is dated most likely between 1830 to 1850.

I found a few like that marking a sink hole with the heads cut off what does that mean?

 

[jeff of pa]

That is definitely a dinky railroad spike. They probably used a dinky railroad when they cut all the Oak Trees off of Oak Island? That spike is dated most likely between 1830 to 1850.

I found a few like that marking a sink hole with the heads cut off what does that mean?

Just for the record. The one posted here is not the one they dug.
But I watched the Find 3 times on TV, as they handled it & That is the Shape of What they Dug
and called as Ships Nail

there must be Pirate Ships Buried all over the Mines & Rail Road Routes Throughout PA
if a Railroad Spike is Proof positive of a Ship

 

[jeff of pa]

Here Ya Go.
I think they didn't try to give good views because they Knew.


Wide Bottom, Not a Point

Souvenir spike from local mine tour


Angle down