Season "3" of Curse of Oak Island

[lokiblossom]

so.... where were the fibers recovered? How did they make sure there was no contamination? What method was used? where was it tested? How many samples were tested, what controls were implemented, and where are the results? Just because a TV show says something doesn't make it so. Heck, They claim every single episode that there WAS a pit, and there WAS layers of logs and the never seen rock is real!

The fibres were identified and dated twice well before Marty Lagina bought a share of the Island, one of the earlier tests was by Woods Hole. All three of the tests arrived at the same general time period.
I have never said there was ever anything extraordinary on the Island itself.
Cheers, Loki

 

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[Jason in Enid]

sorry, that still tells me (almost) nothing.

 

[Jason in Enid]

5 seconds with Google found this :

The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute Report

Introduction

It has long been rumored that the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, a prestigious research organization located on coastal Massachusetts, had conducted a study on Oak Island. Various messages hinted that the study had been commissioned by the people at Triton and that it was being kept secret due to some sort of confidentiality agreement. One site, run by a fellow named Bill Milstead who is an investor in Triton's efforts, seems to suggest that secret findings are involved and that the results of the study are somehow proprietary ("I cannot divulge the 200 page report...").
Thus it seemed time to track down the facts surrounding this report. Enquiries were made to the Institute requesting access to the data or an interview with one or more of the scientists who were involved. A reply was received and two of the scientists consented to be interviewed by phone.
The first myths to be dispelled were that the study was paid for by the Triton organization and that the contents were somehow confidential; one of the scientists specifically said 'there are no secret Woods Hole files about Oak Island' in order to clear up this misconception. The research was actually commissioned by a Boston-based philanthropist whose name I am witholding from publication in order to prevent him from being deluged with requests for additional information. This individual has no known link to the Triton folk and it is not presently known why he requested the study be performed.



Coconut Fibres Found

One potentially interesting finding that was made involved the legendary coconut fibres. The Woods Hole team were taken to a site on the Northeast coast of the island by people from Triton, who 'dug down a bit and produced a handful of fibres from under the sand (Aubrey, 2002).' When analyzed, they were indeed confirmed as material from some species of coconut, possibly of Mediterranean origin but too decayed for a positive identification (Aubrey, 2002). Also surprisingly, carbon dating indicated a date of roughly 1100 CE for the fibres, which should prove very exciting to various authors although numerous explanations for the presence of the fibres and their age can be given.
It should be noted (and this was stated categorically by the chief scientist involved in the project) that the researchers were led to the spot and handed material retrieved from under the sand (Aubrey, 2002). No archaeological dig was conducted and the researchers did not have the time to search for additional samples. Thus it is possible that quantities of fibre were planted by prior treasure hunters in order to mislead potential investors, or (as one of the scientists suggested) the material might have been deposited on the eastern coast of the island by storm action sometime in the distant past; it is this side of the island that faces toward the Atlantic and consequently would receive more storm surge and other severe weather. Also, as this author has previously suggested the material may simply have been dunnage (shipping material--the ancient equivalent of 'packing peanuts') that was dumped at the site when materials or cargo were being unloaded. Items A and B above suggest the legendary 'box drains' are just that, e.g. the stuff of legend. If they don't exist then there's no reason to believe the coconut fibres have any connection to this aspect of the tale.
If the fibres were part of shipping material or cargo that was unloaded on the beach, then the questions become more interesting. Was the island used as a delivery point for rum smugglers? Did wreckers or more traditional pirates use it as a conveniently isolated location to unpack and disperse looted cargo? Each of these explanations is far more plausible than the suggestion of some elaborate system of 'box drains' that don't show up on modern sensing equipment.
More problematic is the reported age of the material. It seems quite possible the 1100CE date is correct, but it may also be the case that exposure to weather, salt water, or some other environmental influence has caused the date to be misreported by the carbon dating process. It should also be remembered that this date simply shows when the material began to decay—not the date it was deposited at the site.
The Woods Hole study, brief as it was, is very important since it represents the only impartial research that has ever been done on the island by people who have not had a vested interest in the results. It is very revealing that a two week scientific study was sufficient to dispell several of the key points surrounding the legend, and we can only speculate what would happen if a fully funded research group was able to spend several months performing unrestricted work at the site. Would they confirm some of the details of the legend or would we see each element crumble in the face of unbiased enquiry?


So we have a short test from a small, degraded sample, with zero provenance. You sure do spend a lot of time defending people spending large sums of money searching an island you yourself now admit never held anything extraordinary, but for some reason you think this all proves that templar knights were there?

 

[lokiblossom]

sorry, that still tells me (almost) nothing.

I didn't think so!
Cheers, Loki

btw, the author of that report was not from Woods Hole and did not understand that the fibres could not have washed up on the beach or that if used as packing material it could not have come from anywhere but the Mediterranean. Nor would seawater or exposure to weather have had any great effect on the dating process.
There were also two other datings of the material conducted.

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo,still no facts about treasure.all speculation and hearsay, noFacts.npNP

 

[gazzahk]

Stories that can be traced no farther back in history than the mid 1800's. Nobody ever saw the "layers of wood planks", or saw any inscribed stone, or a tackle block hanging in a tree. The entire thing is giant waste of money based on a story written to sell books.

Well there is the claim of chapels vault and the metal barrier "seven foot deep cement vault at 153 feet and an iron barrier at 171 feet". If these reports are true something must of been buried there... There are also reports of earlier treasure hunters finding evidence of the flood tunnels... And "some people" must of saw the other things or the claims of them would not exist... So 'No evidence' is a bit extreme I would concur though with limited evidence....

 

[Not Peralta]

AmigoThere are no real facts about treasure on Oak Island, NONE, np

 

[lokiblossom]

[/FONT][/COLOR]So we have a short test from a small, degraded sample, with zero provenance. You sure do spend a lot of time defending people spending large sums of money searching an island you yourself now admit never held anything extraordinary, but for some reason you think this all proves that templar knights were there?

As I said there are two other C-14 tests that have been done all with similar results, and to be fair you should read the actual report.
I never said prove, I only used the word evidence! Yes, because I don't think anybody should be called stupid.
Posters should be wary because calling a forum member stupid is against forum rules and it is possible one of the Michigan Mob could actually be a forum member.
As for treasure, if that is only what you are interested in, a documented 160,000 florins of gold was taken from Cyprus in 1307 to somewhere by the Knights Templar on vessels that seemingly disappeared.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

AmigoThere are no real facts about treasure on Oak Island, NONE, np

Of course there are no real facts about treasure on Oak Island as the treasure as you call it was never kept on Oak Island.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Dave Rishar]

If these reports are true something must of been buried there...

If.

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo's Have some burro juiceand wake up, There is no proof, If, in one hand and-----in the other, see which one fills up first, show the proof of treasure,you can't,there is none,np

 

[Mike Mercury]

...
We didn't see Nolan and Dan Blankenship together, I'd have to say no buried hatchets yet.

I found this "account" on another web site:

a reported incident of many years ago, involving an altercation between Blankenship and another island resident, Frederick Nolan. According to one source: “One day Blankenship had approached with a rifle in hand and an ugly situation had begun to develop. Eventually the police were called in to calm everybody down and confiscate the gun” (Finnan 1997, 93).

 

[lokiblossom]

Amigo's Have some burro juiceand wake up, There is no proof, If, in one hand and-----in the other, see which one fills up first, show the proof of treasure,you can't,there is none,np

I guess you think you are being cute with that Amigo thing, but rest assured I am not your friend. And you do not read very well either. I wrote that I never said I had proof only evidence and also that I don't believe a treasure was ever kept or hidden on Oak Island.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Mike Mercury]

interesting things about the Islands treasure search history;

the first ever "official" record of an attempt to search for treasure on Oak Island was in 1849, when a Treasuring Hunting Licence was issued to Charles Archibald and John Pitblado on August 6th by the Governor of Nova Scotia.

First mention ever in a publication of an attempted treasure search on Oak Island was in an article in the Liverpool Transcript (a Nova Scotia newspaper) August 8, 1857 by JP Forks; he mentions digging for Captain Kidd’s treasure on Oak Island.

A few months later, a follow-up acticle was published in the same newspaper:
Mentioned in this article:

Oak Island is the scene of a so far fruitless search for the treasure of Captain Kidd.
Four pits, of which three are still open, have been excavated to considerable depths in search of the treasure. The pits are all “upwards of 100 feet” in depth, and the three open ones are now all filled with water.
The pits all measure approximately 12 x 8 feet and are lined with wood that is 8 inches square.
The treasure searchers were flooded out of each pit by water, and they believe “sluices or communications with the sea” had been constructed to protect the treasure.
Five horse-operated whimsies or gins are set up to elevate dirt, stones and water out of the pits.
The article mentions nothing about when the pit was discovered, who discovered it, and who has been digging for the treasure.

a 5th article published in the same newspaper, in October 1862 - was the first to mention the original finders of the money pit; the name of the discoverer of the pit is given as McGinnis, that he and friends Smith & Vaughn went down into the depression to the 30 ft level.
Also included in this Oct 1862 article was the first mention of the lettered stone, discovered at the depth of 80 feet, with “characters” cut in it.

What I find odd is that no one photographed the stone, nor traced it either. Glass plate photography was in existence then; and any scholar that would of been asked to decipher the stone would of -at least- made a tracing of it (that's what academics of the time would automatically of done).

I think the TV show doesn't delve in the specifics of the past - because it's main crux is not intended to be a documentary on Oak Island; instead it's a show about treasure hunting in the 21st century.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I guess you think you are being cute with that Amigo thing, but rest assured I am not your friend. And you do not read very well either. I wrote that I never said I had proof only evidence and also that I don't believe a treasure was ever kept or hidden on Oak Island.
Cheers, Loki

NP is being friends with you, why are you being so hateful?

 

[Jason in Enid]

interesting things about the Islands treasure search history;

the first ever "official" record of an attempt to search for treasure on Oak Island was in 1849, when a Treasuring Hunting Licence was issued to Charles Archibald and John Pitblado on August 6th by the Governor of Nova Scotia.

First mention ever in a publication of an attempted treasure search on Oak Island was in an article in the Liverpool Transcript (a Nova Scotia newspaper) August 8, 1857 by JP Forks; he mentions digging for Captain Kidd’s treasure on Oak Island.

A few months later, a follow-up acticle was published in the same newspaper:
Mentioned in this article:

Oak Island is the scene of a so far fruitless search for the treasure of Captain Kidd.
Four pits, of which three are still open, have been excavated to considerable depths in search of the treasure. The pits are all “upwards of 100 feet” in depth, and the three open ones are now all filled with water.
The pits all measure approximately 12 x 8 feet and are lined with wood that is 8 inches square.
The treasure searchers were flooded out of each pit by water, and they believe “sluices or communications with the sea” had been constructed to protect the treasure.
Five horse-operated whimsies or gins are set up to elevate dirt, stones and water out of the pits.
The article mentions nothing about when the pit was discovered, who discovered it, and who has been digging for the treasure.

a 5th article published in the same newspaper, in October 1862 - was the first to mention the original finders of the money pit; the name of the discoverer of the pit is given as McGinnis, that he and friends Smith & Vaughn went down into the depression to the 30 ft level. Also included in this Oct 1862 article was the first mention of the lettered stone, discovered at the depth of 80 feet, with “characters” cut in it.

What I find odd is that no one photographed the stone, nort traced it either. Glass plate photography was in existence in the 1850's; and any scholar that would of been asked to decipher the stone would of -at least- made a tracing of it (that's what academics of the time would automatically of done).

I think the TV show doesn't delve in the specifics of the past - because it's main crux is not intended to be a documentary on Oak Island; instead it's a show about treasure hunting in the 21st century.

Yep, just like every story, it grows in every re-telling. More things "were found" in the past every time it's told until complete fantasy becomes believed as hard fact. There were no platform layers of wood beams, there was no inscribed stone, there was no tree with a block-and-tackle hanging from it.

 

[Roadhse2]

I believe if there were any timber platforms found, they would be partial platforms to facilitate moving dirt from the bottom to out of the hole..,,If you had 2 or more guys digging, filling buckets, 1 or 2 guys on each platform spaced at 8 to 10 feet, you could move a lot of dirt up and out over roping it up 100 foot each time.

Yeah, you can bet if the supposed stone ever reached a professionals hands at any time, there would be at least a sketch of it but more likely a rubbing for accuracy...

 

[Not Peralta]

QUOTE=lokiblossom;4809440]I guess you think you are being cute with that Amigo thing, but rest assured I am not your friend. And you do not read very well either. I wrote that I never said I had proof only evidence and also that I don't believe a treasure was ever kept or hidden on Oak Island.
Cheers, Loki[/QUOTE]Im sorry you don't think I am cute, and I am sorry you don't want to be my friendAnd I am very sorry that I do not read very wellI guess I will have to trade in my seeing eye burro, and I thought he was doing such a great jobHave a nice day.

 

[NostraDanis]

M. Mercury said, "What I find odd is that no one photographed the stone, nor traced it either. Glass plate photography was in existence then; and any scholar that would of been asked to decipher the stone would of -at least- made a tracing of it (that's what academics of the time would automatically of done)."

I think this is a fair question, and although I don't claim to empirically know the answer, I think I can pose a possible one.

Imagine if you were investing your time and hard labor to search the pit in the mid 19th century and you came across an artifact that was obviously man-made, but you were unable to interpret it. What would you do?

If it were me, I would consult with academics that I trusted to keep a secret. I would understand that giving access to what I hope to be the key to treasure would be a tricky thing. Of course I would make rubbings or drawings, and maybe even photos; but they would all be very closely guarded because controlling that information would be at a premium - even if I didn't know what that information actually was.

So, what I'm saying, Mike, is that I think it's reasonable to think that the rubbings, photos, or whatever that were taken from the stone may well have existed, but not publicly. That information, even if they didn't understand it, may have been very closely guarded. For all we know, it may still be.

It's just a theory.
Also, for the dynamic duo; you need not waste your time telling how there is no stone, no evidence, blah, blah, blah. Your position and opinion is well known and well stated (in every thread, over and over), thank you.

 

[gazzahk]

Also, for the dynamic duo; you need not waste your time telling how there is no stone, no evidence, blah, blah, blah. Your position and opinion is well known and well stated (in every thread, over and over), thank you.

Ha ha.. Yep...