Possible source of stone used in Peralta tablets

[Al D]

That, my friend, would be a valid conclusion…..if there were any true evidence of the Peralta massacre.

 

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[coazon de oro]

Two cents here, two cents there, keeps the song going. We know the FBI tends to make mistakes now and then. I would say they just assumed the 1847 was a date, and gave their two cents worth.

 

[Al D]

So…if we choose to reject the idea that the 1847 represents a date, then we also must suspend all of the conclusions based upon that, which leaves us with the idea that the stone tablets could have been made at anytime, and may be authentic.

 

[Idahodutch]

So…if we choose to reject the idea that the 1847 represents a date, then we also must suspend all of the conclusions based upon that, which leaves us with the idea that the stone tablets could have been made at anytime, and may be authentic.

I’ve always bought into the massacre stories, to a certain degree, in that I do believe it happened. Different versions and I haven’t gone real deep into it.
I do think there was Mexican prospectors/miners that worked many parts of the Superstition Mountains.

The massacre event, if it really happened, (then so did the mining), would be an event worthy of making monuments of stone telling the ? (Fill in blank)

If you have a motivation in mind for carving the “1847” that is different than something like a massacre event, then I would be eager to hear about it 🤓👍

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Horse/priest stone = granite
Two map stones = sandstone
Heart stone = basalt
Latin heart = slate

I must've missed the part about the H/P stone being granite? Where was this info from?

The only thing I've seen on it was the DAI geologist who said:

I've heard the tape from Jim Hatt, where Doyle Harnish describes the Latin Heart as black slate. It also sounds like the heart stone was red quartzite, but can't really make it out.

EDIT: I'm not sure what she means by Coconino sandstone, but I'm assuming she thinks it originates from a geologic formation i.e. the Coconino Plateau.

PS - My wife has been a geologist for over 30 years and says there's no way to precisely date rocks. If they're in place where they formed one can make assumptions about age in terms of geologic strata/epochs and any associated weathering that correlates with assumptions about ancient weather patterns. This is very basic, such as associating fossilized ferns etc. in strata with such plants needing a temperate/rainy environment. Or obvious signs of wet vs. dry weathering.

If they're not "in situ", some assumptions might be made about signs of weathering on stones, or lichen formation, but it's a WAG and there's not much certainty that would be provable using established scientific method.

My take-away is that accurately dating stones to within a hundred years is pretty much a guess, and probably based on weathering.

There are newer technologies being used today but they weren't available in the 1960's or 70's.

 

[goldnlead77]

All I know is those stones give me a thrill every time I lay my eyes on them 🙏. I believe they are much older and (1847) is not a date but that of a notikal coordinates!!! : . Quest of the Peralta stones (dvd) I can’t remember the names of the family’s who tried to solve it? Went to Colorado at Johnson canyon and found many intriguing things!!!! He saidgo to Arizona) on his deathbed!!!!

 

[deducer]

There is no definitive way to date petroglyphs, so I seriously question the FBI ability to date carved sandstone

They were not trying to date the Stone Maps, they were trying to ascertain the authenticity of the Stone Maps to determine if a fraud had occurred.

 

[deducer]

Two cents here, two cents there, keeps the song going. We know the FBI tends to make mistakes now and then. I would say they just assumed the 1847 was a date, and gave their two cents worth.

The FBI were analyzing the Stone Maps as part of a felony investigation. I doubt they would have taken it that lightly.

 

[deducer]

I must've missed the part about the H/P stone being granite? Where was this info from?

The only thing I've seen on it was the DAI geologist who said:

View attachment 2103901

I've heard the tape from Jim Hatt, where Doyle Harnish describes the Latin Heart as black slate. It also sounds like the heart stone was red quartzite, but can't really make it out.

EDIT: I'm not sure what she means by Coconino sandstone, but I'm assuming she thinks it originates from a geologic formation i.e. the Coconino Plateau.

PS - My wife has been a geologist for over 30 years and says there's no way to precisely date rocks. If they're in place where they formed one can make assumptions about age in terms of geologic strata/epochs and any associated weathering that correlates with assumptions about ancient weather patterns. This is very basic, such as associating fossilized ferns etc. in strata with such plants needing a temperate/rainy environment. Or obvious signs of wet vs. dry weathering.

If they're not "in situ", some assumptions might be made about signs of weathering on stones, or lichen formation, but it's a WAG and there's not much certainty that would be provable using established scientific method.

My take-away is that accurately dating stones to within a hundred years is pretty much a guess, and probably based on weathering.

There are newer technologies being used today but they weren't available in the 1960's or 70's.

The H/P is either granite or basalt... that detail is lost somewhere in the mountain of notes I have yet to organize and I have never had much interest in geology as it has no bearing on what I am interested in, so I will be the first to admit I'm wrong.

As for the heart stone, no two person can seem to agree on what it really is- either basalt, red chalcedony or quartzite, or some type of red slate. Wayne (Somehiker) believed that he had found a close match for it in the Superstitions. What he holds in his hand is what he said was red slate.

The interesting thing was that some of us raised the idea of having whatever it was that held the heart stone together tested (if it was cement or glue), but the museum threw a fit over the idea. Hopefully someday they might change their mind.

 

[goldnlead77]

As a child I was tested for genius. I was a straight A student and went into high school in all advanced classes. Then my life got turned upside down. My parents got divorced, my grandpa dear to me died, my sister had her first kid then went back to using drugs. Anyway everything went to you know where. So I dropped out of high school and went to work with my dad at 14 as a tile and stone installer. I’m not saying I’m smart I’m just saying I used to be smart 😂

 

[Al D]

an interesting speculation; It seems to me that glueing the broken heart stone together would be as much work and less reliable than simply making a new one.
cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) was patented in 1947
Polyvinyl acetate glue was discovered in 1912

 

[goldnlead77]

I know super glue works great if I cut myself . It was designed by hospital workers to seal cuts. It heals faster and doesn’t leave a scar. I didn’t pay much attention to it being broken when I went to see it. Does anyone know when it was glued?

 

[deducer]

an interesting speculation; It seems to me that glueing the broken heart stone together would be as much work and less reliable than simply making a new one.
cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) was patented in 1947
Polyvinyl acetate glue was discovered in 1912

Animal glue dates to 2,000 BC. The use of resin and mortar date much older. The use of resin itself as a sticky residue to aid in binding things together (stone to ax handle) dates to around 55,000 to 40,000 BC.

Resin glue (a mix of tree resin and charcoal) was very common and often used in the SW.

Glue was first commercialized and marketed in the 1700's.

 

[Al D]

the break pattern is also interesting, two crack line forming a cross.
I can visualize one crack line occurring due to a miss-hap, and even two, but not forming a cross pattern.
obviously, the crystal structure of the stone is cubic, but still, an interesting detail

 

[Al D]

More likely in a pattern like this.

 

[deducer]

the break pattern is also interesting, two crack line forming a cross.
I can visualize one crack line occurring due to a miss-hap, and even two, but not forming a cross pattern.
obviously, the crystal structure of the stone is cubic, but still, an interesting detail

It was intentionally broken to form a cross, the same cross as depicted below.

Both of which are seen in proximity to where the "trail" begins. If you put the heart stone in the pocket on the trail stone, both crosses are oriented in the same direction

 

[Al D]

My sentiments exactly.

 

[goldnlead77]

If you look at the (N) that is just above the cross line of the cross, I believe that is telling you where North is?

 

[goldnlead77]

That’s what I’ve deduced anyway, I could be wrong of course?

 

[goldnlead77]

Being that it also aligns with the fish hook off the knife handle.