I'm going to offer something to this debate that I haven't noticed yet, the difference between wealth and power. One form of wealth can be material wealth, gold, silver, land, etc. But, in my opinion, a powerful man is somebody who can look a guy in the eye, who is trying to kill him, and plant a bullet between his ears, and then move on to the next guy. I've known wealthy men as well as powerful men. The wealthy men accumulated their wealth through trade. The powerful men I've known became powerful due to the circumstances of their environment. Wealthy men become powerful, not necessarily because they are powerful, but because they can buy the services of those who are. And a powerful man can become wealthy by carefully choosing the traders he makes an alliance with. You can find these alliances throughout history. Look at the groups we talk about here on Tnet... the Templars, the Jesuits, the KGC, all warriors who made alliances with...who? This is something to remember in your research. Some people on Tnet talk about tracking the money by going back a couple hundred years and moving forward but it might be easier to go back as far as you can, historically, and move forward...get the big picture and then look for the details.
One tough thing to swallow about the KGC ...
- Thread starter Nobody
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[SIZE=+1](5) After fall of Carthage, many Carthaginians and Phoenicians became Jews; origin of Jews of Spain (a Carthaginian colony)[/SIZE]
The fall of Carthage marked the end of the Phoenician/Carthaginian civilization, which Arnold J. Toynbee classed as part of Syriac Civilization.
After the destruction of Carthage by Rome, many Carthaginians and Phoenicians converted to Judaism, because Jerusalem was the only remaining centre of West Semitic civilization.
Spain had been a Carthaginian colony. This conversion by Carthaginians is the likely origin of the large Jewish communities of Spain and North Africa.
John Rose wrote, in his article Karl Marx, Abram Leon and the Jewish Question - a reappraisal (International Socialism: A quarterly journal of revolutionary Socialism, Issue 119, 24 June 08 International Socialism: Karl Marx, Abram Leon and the Jewish Question?a reappraisal):
{quote} ... Large numbers of Phoenicians and Carthaginians became Jewish, bringing with them "their commercial skills".26 Islamic expansion throughout the Mediterranean arena and beyond enhanced the Jewish trading role: "Jewish traders served as important mediators in a world divided by Islam and Christianity ... By the 9th century Hebrew had become a leading international language".27 {endquote}
Endnotes 26 & 27 are as follows:
26: Baron et al, 1975, p21. 27: Baron et al, 1975, pp28-29.
The reference is to Baron, Salo, Arcadius Kahan, et al (eds), 1975, Economic History of the Jews (Keter). Salo Baron is an eminent Jewish historian.
Equal attestation that Carthaginians and Phoenicians became Jews is provided by Lionel Curtis - the predecessor of Arnold J. Toynbee and Samuel P. Huntington as the most eminent intellectual in the Round Table and its CFR affiliate.
Curtis wrote in his book Civitas Dei: The Commonwealth of God (MacMillan and Co., London, 1938):
{p. 90} The Greek, Roman and Phoenician world had grown to be one economic unit. The premature death of Alexander and the absorption of his successors in the task of maintaining their various dynasties left Rome and Carthage to decide this phase of the long struggle between eastern and western ideas. As in the previous struggle of Greece with Persia, the issue was really decided by the relative merits of the two social systems. In the Roman polity the idea that a citizen owed more to the public interest than to himself was still uppermost, and stronger even than the passion for individual wealth. When all was lost the Carthaginians {i.e. Phoenicians} rose to heights of heroism, and, true to the tradition of the Semite race, they fought like lions when driven to their lair. With the total destruction of Carthage in 146 B.C. Rome was left with no serious rival in the Mediterranean.
{p. 91} In less than a hundred years from the fall of Carthage the Roman republic had mastered the entire basin of the Mediterranean, the west of Europe from the Rhine to the Atlantic, and the whole Greek world including most of the conquests of Alexander, that is to say, Egypt, Syria and Asia as far as the Euphrates. The civilisation imposed on this vast area was neither Greek nor Latin but a fusion of both, Greek elements prevailing in the east and Latin in the west.
{p. 96} In the earlier records of Greece and Rome we meet the Phoenician traders everywhere scattered along the coasts of the Mediterranean. But after the fall of Carthage they seem to fade from the pages of history. Before the time of Caesar we meet the Jews in every part of the Graeco-Roman world, filling the place which the Phoenicians once occupied in the commercial life of the Mediterranean. Paul in his journeys finds a settlement of his countrymen in almost every city which he visits.
The explanation is fairly obvious. So long as Carthage remained the greatest centre of Semitic life, the mistress of Greek cities in Sicily and the formidable rival of Rome, the Phoenicians wherever they lived and traded boasted their race and their name. The splendour and wealth of Carthage covered the monstrous religion of which she was the centre with a cloak of respectability. But when Carthage was wiped from the map the cloak fell off and the Phoenicians in the Graeco-Roman world learned to be ashamed of human sacrifice practised in its most revolting form.
Carthage fell in 146 B.C. It so happened that their near kindred, the Jews, at that very moment had reached a stage in their history which recalled the days of the house of David.
{p. 102} The Jews proudly viewed themselves as the people to whom the God of the universe had chosen to reveal not only his nature but the ritual and law by which men ought to live. Believing this, it was natural that, under Pharisee influence, they should wish to convert others to their faith. Their readiness at this stage of their history 'to compass sea and land to make one proselyte' is a well-established historical fact. The edict of Hadrian forbidding circumcision, at least of proselytes, was needed to quench it. With Jerusalem in her glory and Carthage in ruins the scattered Phoenician traders with their close racial affinity to the Jews were likely to be the readiest converts. From the time of Plato a certain drift towards monotheism had begun to affect the thought of the Graeco-Roman world. The Greeks and Romans viewed the religion of Jehovah with involuntary respect, and until the fall of Jerusalem regular provision was made by Roman emperors for sacrifice to be offered in the Temple on their behalf. The Jewish communities in Rome and elsewhere were allowed to lead their separate life and accorded certain privileges. Except in Judea and Mesopotamia they had generally adopted the Greek language, and after the fall of Carthage the Phoenician traders no doubt followed suit. They had thus every motive as well as every facility for abandoning the worship of Baal, with its hideous and barbarous rites, for that of Jehovah and for merging themselves in the Jewish communities. The process was gradual, and we know from Tertullian that up to the time of Tiberius they were still suspected of reverting to the practice of child sacrifice.
The upshot was that after the fall of Carthage the
{p. 103} Jews replaced the Phoenicians as the champions of Semitic culture in opposition to Graeco-Roman civilisation.
{endquote} More at curtis2.html.
The fall of Carthage marked the end of the Phoenician/Carthaginian civilization, which Arnold J. Toynbee classed as part of Syriac Civilization.
After the destruction of Carthage by Rome, many Carthaginians and Phoenicians converted to Judaism, because Jerusalem was the only remaining centre of West Semitic civilization.
Spain had been a Carthaginian colony. This conversion by Carthaginians is the likely origin of the large Jewish communities of Spain and North Africa.
John Rose wrote, in his article Karl Marx, Abram Leon and the Jewish Question - a reappraisal (International Socialism: A quarterly journal of revolutionary Socialism, Issue 119, 24 June 08 International Socialism: Karl Marx, Abram Leon and the Jewish Question?a reappraisal):
{quote} ... Large numbers of Phoenicians and Carthaginians became Jewish, bringing with them "their commercial skills".26 Islamic expansion throughout the Mediterranean arena and beyond enhanced the Jewish trading role: "Jewish traders served as important mediators in a world divided by Islam and Christianity ... By the 9th century Hebrew had become a leading international language".27 {endquote}
Endnotes 26 & 27 are as follows:
26: Baron et al, 1975, p21. 27: Baron et al, 1975, pp28-29.
The reference is to Baron, Salo, Arcadius Kahan, et al (eds), 1975, Economic History of the Jews (Keter). Salo Baron is an eminent Jewish historian.
Equal attestation that Carthaginians and Phoenicians became Jews is provided by Lionel Curtis - the predecessor of Arnold J. Toynbee and Samuel P. Huntington as the most eminent intellectual in the Round Table and its CFR affiliate.
Curtis wrote in his book Civitas Dei: The Commonwealth of God (MacMillan and Co., London, 1938):
{p. 90} The Greek, Roman and Phoenician world had grown to be one economic unit. The premature death of Alexander and the absorption of his successors in the task of maintaining their various dynasties left Rome and Carthage to decide this phase of the long struggle between eastern and western ideas. As in the previous struggle of Greece with Persia, the issue was really decided by the relative merits of the two social systems. In the Roman polity the idea that a citizen owed more to the public interest than to himself was still uppermost, and stronger even than the passion for individual wealth. When all was lost the Carthaginians {i.e. Phoenicians} rose to heights of heroism, and, true to the tradition of the Semite race, they fought like lions when driven to their lair. With the total destruction of Carthage in 146 B.C. Rome was left with no serious rival in the Mediterranean.
{p. 91} In less than a hundred years from the fall of Carthage the Roman republic had mastered the entire basin of the Mediterranean, the west of Europe from the Rhine to the Atlantic, and the whole Greek world including most of the conquests of Alexander, that is to say, Egypt, Syria and Asia as far as the Euphrates. The civilisation imposed on this vast area was neither Greek nor Latin but a fusion of both, Greek elements prevailing in the east and Latin in the west.
{p. 96} In the earlier records of Greece and Rome we meet the Phoenician traders everywhere scattered along the coasts of the Mediterranean. But after the fall of Carthage they seem to fade from the pages of history. Before the time of Caesar we meet the Jews in every part of the Graeco-Roman world, filling the place which the Phoenicians once occupied in the commercial life of the Mediterranean. Paul in his journeys finds a settlement of his countrymen in almost every city which he visits.
The explanation is fairly obvious. So long as Carthage remained the greatest centre of Semitic life, the mistress of Greek cities in Sicily and the formidable rival of Rome, the Phoenicians wherever they lived and traded boasted their race and their name. The splendour and wealth of Carthage covered the monstrous religion of which she was the centre with a cloak of respectability. But when Carthage was wiped from the map the cloak fell off and the Phoenicians in the Graeco-Roman world learned to be ashamed of human sacrifice practised in its most revolting form.
Carthage fell in 146 B.C. It so happened that their near kindred, the Jews, at that very moment had reached a stage in their history which recalled the days of the house of David.
{p. 102} The Jews proudly viewed themselves as the people to whom the God of the universe had chosen to reveal not only his nature but the ritual and law by which men ought to live. Believing this, it was natural that, under Pharisee influence, they should wish to convert others to their faith. Their readiness at this stage of their history 'to compass sea and land to make one proselyte' is a well-established historical fact. The edict of Hadrian forbidding circumcision, at least of proselytes, was needed to quench it. With Jerusalem in her glory and Carthage in ruins the scattered Phoenician traders with their close racial affinity to the Jews were likely to be the readiest converts. From the time of Plato a certain drift towards monotheism had begun to affect the thought of the Graeco-Roman world. The Greeks and Romans viewed the religion of Jehovah with involuntary respect, and until the fall of Jerusalem regular provision was made by Roman emperors for sacrifice to be offered in the Temple on their behalf. The Jewish communities in Rome and elsewhere were allowed to lead their separate life and accorded certain privileges. Except in Judea and Mesopotamia they had generally adopted the Greek language, and after the fall of Carthage the Phoenician traders no doubt followed suit. They had thus every motive as well as every facility for abandoning the worship of Baal, with its hideous and barbarous rites, for that of Jehovah and for merging themselves in the Jewish communities. The process was gradual, and we know from Tertullian that up to the time of Tiberius they were still suspected of reverting to the practice of child sacrifice.
The upshot was that after the fall of Carthage the
{p. 103} Jews replaced the Phoenicians as the champions of Semitic culture in opposition to Graeco-Roman civilisation.
{endquote} More at curtis2.html.
Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
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HATE Colorado...? GET OUT, then... nephew lives in Boulder; he LOVES it! List your questions. I see your anti-Catholics diatribes. Pentecostal, myself... WHERE IS my rattlesnake...? Musta went back up into the mountains.
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Mercury dime added the peaceful balance of olive branch to tame fasces political origin. I don,t feel a tie to Benito,s use as being our use but coincidence?
Fasces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Rebel - KGC
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1884, KGC HQ was moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado...
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Is a interesting Colorado seal though. Waiting on the owls post for eye comparison. Sure not matching some of the Pinkerton s.
L.C. BAKER
Silver Member
Agree! It is like any other treasure trail though, the all mighty starting spot is the key!
L.C. Baker
L.C. BAKER
Silver Member
" preferring to keep certain info from the masses" 
There are several things we have exposed in Colorado that took place before it was a state-----when it became a state----- and through early 1900's. There are at least three particular individuals we have identified as being in several K.G.C. operations (political and monetary). Their names and the operations will come to light when the book is published, and I have no doubt that real historians and other hunters will connect many dots to make an even larger picture as they build off of the men involved.
L.C.
There are several things we have exposed in Colorado that took place before it was a state-----when it became a state----- and through early 1900's. There are at least three particular individuals we have identified as being in several K.G.C. operations (political and monetary). Their names and the operations will come to light when the book is published, and I have no doubt that real historians and other hunters will connect many dots to make an even larger picture as they build off of the men involved.
L.C.
L.C. BAKER
Silver Member
Albert Pike was a lawyer who played a major role in the development of the early courts of Arkansas and played an active role in the state’s politics prior to the Civil War.
Anybody ever look into Pikes political roll during this time?
L.C.
Anybody ever look into Pikes political roll during this time?
L.C.
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Seems like the owl symbolized death and bad luck to many of the ancient cultures. As an "M" it was used by the ancient Egyptians in their hieroglyphics.
Several years ago I spoke to a lady from the Sauk Tribe and asked her the meaning of the owl to the Sauk people. She refused to tell me and I believe it was because the subject made her uneasy. I told her that I had a theory that owl carvings, or rock formations shaped like an owl, could be used to keep Native Americans away from a specific area. She didn't say yes but she did say that was a very good theory.
As it might relate to a treasure site, here's a link that shows a couple possibilities.
Medieval Bestiary : Owl
Several years ago I spoke to a lady from the Sauk Tribe and asked her the meaning of the owl to the Sauk people. She refused to tell me and I believe it was because the subject made her uneasy. I told her that I had a theory that owl carvings, or rock formations shaped like an owl, could be used to keep Native Americans away from a specific area. She didn't say yes but she did say that was a very good theory.
As it might relate to a treasure site, here's a link that shows a couple possibilities.
Medieval Bestiary : Owl
Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
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Agree; In MY research (R & I), the Owl was Sign of DANGER; DEATH possible. BE WISE; Don't Go THERE, as it COULD be booby-trapped, etc. Seen carvings, mostly on boulders (leading to a steep cliff, rock-falls, etc.). Be VERY careful... MINDFUL & AWARE!
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Under the owl ,(under grip on frame), is where numbers are to date.
Two political assassinations credited to brand. Example is a .32. Plenty of confusion sometimes with certain calibers at times over what round will fit properly, well case and powder anyway ,not unlike its slightly bigger and made by Iver cousin as well, .38. Being some were straddling the black to smoke less era...attention required when acquiring ammo.
Gun Review: Iver Johnson .32 S&W | The Truth About Guns
Two political assassinations credited to brand. Example is a .32. Plenty of confusion sometimes with certain calibers at times over what round will fit properly, well case and powder anyway ,not unlike its slightly bigger and made by Iver cousin as well, .38. Being some were straddling the black to smoke less era...attention required when acquiring ammo. Gun Review: Iver Johnson .32 S&W | The Truth About Guns
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Springfield
Silver Member
Obviously, the owl is the symbol of the Greek goddess Athena (Minerva for the Romans), one of whose attributes is 'wisdom'. Athena is also associated with Sophia, the Gnostics' mother goddess, who gave birth to the lesser god Yaldabaoth (the OT god), who created the physical universe and began the mess we humans are in. The name Sophia means 'wisdom', but the owl is seemingly not associated with the Gnostic goddess. Bottom line: the owl traditionally symbolizes 'wisdom', but is it 'true wisdom' or 'false wisdom'? Ha ha.
cccalco
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Also note that the signature of Columbus bears a hooked "X". I've been told that this was his signature only after coming to the New World. (and no, I'm not going to say, after discovering the New World)
kanabite
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hi Steve , got the book . thank you so much ! ill have to study it after a little sleep.
seems like we did this before a long time ago . Goddess with the owl eyes :The Mysteries of Tanit - 1 - Goddess Alive!
and there was Lilith too i think :Lilith in the Bible, Art and Mythology ? Biblical Archaeology Society
and them pesky owl men of the Aztec too ,I tired right now, can't remember the name , hey google is your friend lolWhat happened to the Aztec gods after the Conquest? (1)
maybe this one has the name Curanderismo and Witchery in the Southwest
any way you know their name even if i'm a tard , thanks again.///bob
kanabite
Hero Member
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kanabite
Hero Member
- May 27, 2006
- 549
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- Detector(s) used
- wander aimlessly in circles with camera in hand
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HI Steve ,
Loved the book ! could not put it down ,awesome work man!
i will have to remain undecided as to the" big conspiracy" , i have no doubt there are a bunch of little ones .
i guess i just think the puzzle is too big for any one group to have all the answers . i hope you are not offended , cause i really liked the book . going to read it a couple more times , just to be sure .
thank you .///bob
Loved the book ! could not put it down ,awesome work man!
i will have to remain undecided as to the" big conspiracy" , i have no doubt there are a bunch of little ones .
i guess i just think the puzzle is too big for any one group to have all the answers . i hope you are not offended , cause i really liked the book . going to read it a couple more times , just to be sure .
thank you .///bob
Citiboy289
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Wow !!!!! I can usually glance over a post thread and get the general idea from reading the original post and the comments from a few other members THIS ONE IS A KILLER , Going to need to get snowed in again or a rainy weekend to read this through ---- Looks like great research by all the posters
Springfield
Silver Member
I was only a 'half believer' myself from about '63 to '01. I'm all in since then. As you say, WTC7 was the middle finger to America. It was fair warning to all of us, but most folks never got the message and are comfortable with the 'authorities' telling them what to believe and what to do. It's too disturbing to think your bedrock beliefs are more like silly putty.
[BTW, thanks for the compliment]
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