Odyssey Marine Article...

[jeff k]

Thanks Jeff, I gather Mr Mack works for OM. The act makes sense, but It may open up a can of worms with other country's and the US.
No US department is going to take OM side on this, they have more to loose than the supposed $500 million.
Ossy

Rep. Mack works for the people of Florida. He's not trying to change the meaning of SMCA, just clarifying the original intent. Some people are trying to mislead the courts and twist the original intent for their own gain. I don't have to tell you who that is. The guy who wrote SMCA agrees with Odyssey's position.

 

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[old man]

Thanks Jeff, I gather Mr Mack works for OM. The act makes sense, but It may open up a can of worms with other country's and the US.
No US department is going to take OM side on this, they have more to loose than the supposed $500 million.
Ossy

Rep. Mack works for the people of Florida. He's not trying to change the meaning of SMCA, just clarifying the original intent. Some people are trying to mislead the courts and twist the original intent for their own gain. I don't have to tell you who that is. The guy who wrote SMCA agrees with Odyssey's position.

Jeff, It's refreshing to finally see a Politician in office that is doing what he was elected to do. ( Represent the People. ) I am a firm believer as a Veteran, in a Military Ship or Plane that is sunk, being a war Grave. However, I think the distinction should be a ship or plane that is metal and recognized as a ship or plane. Not something that is scattered all of the bottom of the Ocean and to the naked eye, has no recognizable image. I also strongly believe in the Military ship or plane not being on a commercial mission. ie.. Treasure Wrecks. What ever happened to the old adage, " Finders Keepers ".

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Thanks Jeff, I gather Mr Mack works for OM. The act makes sense, but It may open up a can of worms with other country's and the US.
No US department is going to take OM side on this, they have more to loose than the supposed $500 million.
Ossy

So then do you gather that our other Congressman Mr. Andrews works for Spain?

You missed the bit that the US is an Allie of Spain.

SO then how is it ONE Congressman "works " for OM but the other Congressman is an ally?
With your logic then both are allies of Spain...

 

[Vox veritas]

the differance between the 2 cases are easy to explain

juno and la gagla were treasure ships in us controlled waters * the us wanted to "make good" with spain --due to us navy bases at rota spain * and operations at that time . --so they actually contacted spain and "told" them to file a case to "claim" the vessels -- the US govt in effect acted against it own citizens by doing so -- the US Govt put the "interest of a foreign govt" and the us military ahead of its own people's rights ( thus seahunter was sold out by the US govt)

the mercedes was in "international waters" -- and carrying what is clearly "commerical cargo" --not spain royal crown money. ---so its hard to "rig" this case .--unlike the juno and la gagla case.

International waters? Are you kidding?

Claudio, I wish you would tell us what you know with out the cloak and dagger !!! Did you and some of your friends get cut out off the deal with Odyssey.
Ossy

Ossy,
Now there are arguments that it is better not to treat them publicly.
Cheers VV

 

[jeff k]

The following was ammended to the Defense Bill, but don't know if it will be in the final version.

Mack (FL), Bilirakis (FL): Would make changes to the language of the Sunken Military Craft Act of H.R. 1540, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012. Would clarify the language of the Sunken Military Craft Act to restore its original intent, and would specify that a sunken military craft would be defined as a vessel only when on military noncommercial service when it sank.

Update: The amendment passed the House today 227 to 193, but the Senate could kill it.

Here are the links if any of you Florida residents want to send our Senators an email supporting Amendment 48 of the Defense Bill. If you live in another state I suggest you do the same for your Senators.

http://billnelson.senate.gov/index.cfm

http://rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/home

Update: Amendment 48 in the House version is now Amendment 25 in the updated version of H.R. 1540.

 

[jeff k]

I think it might be prudent to not only contact your own Senators, but the members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. I sent the following to some of the members on the committee. Use it as a guideline, but try not to send it verbatim. You'll notice that I never mentioned Odyssey.

http://armed-services.senate.gov/members.htm

Dear Senator *****,

As you may know, Rep. Mack (FL) introduced amendment #25 into the Defense Bill. This amendment having passed the House vote will make needed changes to SMCA. The objective of the Sunken Military Craft Act was to protect sunken United States military vessels, aircraft and spacecraft. This technical correction will make clear that the term "sunken military craft" will only include vessels, warships, naval auxiliaries or other vessels on military, noncommercial service at the time they were sunk.

This amendment is not, and should not be a political issue, but one of U.S. national security. It only seeks to CLARIFY the ORIGINAL INTENT of the Sunken Military Craft Act (SMCA). The State Department’s misinterpretation of SMCA in an Amicis Brief sets a dangerous precedent that could open our nation’s ports to ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES.

The current SMCA states: (Sec 1408 (3))
(3) SUNKEN MILITARY CRAFT- The term "sunken military craft" means all or any portion of--
(A) any sunken warship, naval auxiliary, or other vessel that was owned or operated by a government on military noncommercial service when it sank;
(B) any sunken military aircraft or military spacecraft that was owned or operated by a government when it sank; and
(C) the associated contents of a craft referred to in subparagraph (A) or (B), if title thereto has not been abandoned or transferred by the government concerned.

The State Department misinterpreted it to mean only the last category in that list "or other vessel that was owned or operated by a government . . ." had to be on a non-commercial mission to receive immunity. If you apply the same grammar misinterpretation to (B), sunken military aircraft would not have to be owned or operated by a government when it sank to qualify.

This misinterpretation means any nation can declare an owned ship as a "warship" or "naval auxiliary" even if carrying out commercial activities, making it "sovereign immune" and not subject to U.S. jurisdiction or laws.

As a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, I trust you will take this into consideration.

Respectfully,

 

[gus]

current news
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/odyssey-to-commence-gairsoppa-silver-project-2011-06-07?siteid=nbsh

 

[jeff k]

BBC Radio Profile: Greg Stemm...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00h9f6v/Profile_Greg_Stemm/

The link said May 25, 2011, but it looks like the broadcast is from Feb 2009.

BBC iPlayer - Profile: Greg Stemm
May 25, 2011 - Stephen Sackur profiles Greg Stemm, the American behind the exploration of HMS Victory.

 

[mrmagoo560]

i find it odd the coins would be cemented togather, i would think the coins would flutter, not stay togather. no ship is realy odd as well.
i wounder wgat has cemented the coins, calsite would cement the sand, but not in that enviroment.

i quote
"Much of what was recovered was in the form of large, rocklike collections of encrusted coins, weighing an average of 60 pounds apiece and discovered in a "debris field" rather than in a single area that might be the remains of a ship, according to Odyssey's Nesser. That suggests that people aboard the ship might have thrown the cargo overboard to try to prevent a sinking, he said.

Underwater and treasure Web sites, which are brimming with online chats about the Black Swan, have suggested that the absence of a ship indicates that the booty was from the Spanish galleon, which by some accounts disintegrated in a tremendous explosion.

Citing comments by Stemm, some online participants have speculated that the company is preparing to argue that the loot was, in fact, abandoned by people throwing it overboard."

It would have "fluttered down" if it was loose coins,but if it was in a cask(barrel) it would have come down in clumps then as time and teredo worms ate the wood it would have become encrusted into clumps as described,But that is just my opinion.

 

[mrmagoo560]

Old Man, You can't compare what Spain was doing 500 years ago or what the Roman
Empire did 1000 years ago. In those days, it was Empire building. Be it for the wrong reasons (convert the world to Catholics ) and the money
was needed for the Wars. The Spanish People didn't see any off it !!!
Have you ever been to the Vatican ? I can show you where some of money went.
Today, You say Spain is Greedy, Give me an example.
Ossy

You want an example? Look at what they are doing about this wreck.Did they EVER try to locate it?No.It costs too much,but now that somebody has spent the time and money to find and salvage it they step in and say they want it.To me that is the very definition of greed.

 

[mrmagoo560]

The same can be said about odyssey, they only took the coins so they could sell them
and make money for themselves ( Greed ) Don't most of the CEO in the USA Preach Greed Is Good !! Look what it's done to the World's economy.
Ossy

Ossy it seems after reading many of your posts that not only do you have a problem with OM you have a problem with the USA. You take repeated pot shots at the USA within your posts.

Most CEO's in the world have a legal obligation to make profit for their company, as much profit as they can, not just USA CEO's. The "Worlds" economy currently suffers because of the greed of the world collectively, not solely because of the greed of the USA.

Au_Dreamers, I have as much Problems with US as you do with Spain !
when you start throwing mud, knowbody comes out clean.

Ossy- I believe that’s where we differ. My problem with Spain is within the context of what is happening with OM and the related subject of this website- treasure hunting.

You on the other hand throw mud at the USA I guess just because you like to and out of context of the issue with OM and treasure hunting.

This is about Spain and OM. OM is a publicly traded company that is owned by people of many nations. Some of their “crew” are Americans, some are not.

So how exactly do you decide when to throw mud since the Hero for Spain is an American lawyer??

I don’t recall taking cheap shots at Spain such as yours of the USA, if you would care to point then out…

Au_Dreamers, I do try to keep it in the context of what is Happening with OM, It was not Directed at You, But as whole, to others in this
thread.
Some here think it is justice for OM to keep the Coins because of what happen 400 years ago What a poor excuse !!
As soon as I question Odyssey, on its doings, The response is " Spain raped and Pillaged "
Two American Judges have filed for Spain ! Lets see what happens when the court hears their Verbal arguments.
I enjoy going to US, and will their again later this year. Spain is a friend of the US, and so am I.
Ossy

We are not saying OM should get the treasure because Spain raped and pillaged but because they out and found it.Spain has no claim to it because it was not theirs to begin with,it was only in their possesion because they stole it.They only one besides OM that might have any legal claim to it would be the Mayan people.But since the Spanish pretty much comitted genicide on them and they are dead then it goes to who ever finds it.

 

[jeff k]

Exploring the deep...

http://www.gfwadvertiser.ca/News/2011-07-18/article-2660154/Exploring-the-deep/1

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning Jeff: It appears that he has all of the psychological needs to be a true Treasure hunter, whether he presently knows it or not. he he

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[jeff k]

Don Jose... I sent my resume in, but they told me they don't need anybody to count the gold coins. Should I try for silver?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Guten Morgan Don Jeff, one can only try. Need a recommendation ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[jeff k]

Gibraltar Chronicle Article...

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=22685

 

[jeff k]

Appellate court affirms lower court. I guess Odyssey will take it to the Supreme Court.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-as-court-upholds-black-swan-ship-ruling.html

Update PR...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Odyssey-Request-En-Banc-pz-988226062.html?x=0&.v=1

 

[Panfilo]

The opera ain't over 'till the fat lady sings:
1) En Banc Hearing in the Eleventh Circuit Court
2) Supreme Court
3) International Court at La Hague

Coins are not going anywhere. Not to worry, they're just warming up for the battle.
Panfilo

 

[Alexandre]

LOL!

Coins are not going anywhere. Not to worry, they're just warming up for the battle.
Panfilo

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Appellate court affirms lower court. I guess Odyssey will take it to the Supreme Court.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-as-court-upholds-black-swan-ship-ruling.html

Update PR...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Odyssey-Request-En-Banc-pz-988226062.html?x=0&.v=1

Shares are down and Odyssey are spending more share holders money
I think Odyssey should try the Spanish courts, they may have more luck
Strike 3 " your out "