Odyssey Marine Article...

[mariner]

4theMoney,

It struck me from the TV series that Odyssey knew exactly what they were searching for, and therefore knew that the Victory was a Warship that would probably come under the definition of a Sovereign Vessel, exempt from Salvage. They could have discussed this at that stage with the British Government. Instead, they chose to go on searching for it, though I don't know where the $30 million comes from. Remember that in their searches they were also looking for the Merchant Royal.

Perhaps they calculated that their best best of getting an agreement on recovering the Victory was to very publicly find it, and force the British Government into an agreement because of fears that the wreck could now be found and looted by somebody else.

I think that Odyssey do very little that is not calculated, and tailored to the particular circumstances. That might give them short-term advantages, but it strikes me that it will be counterproductive for them, and the rest of us, in the longer term.

Mariner

 

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[4theMoney]

Mariner,
I have no doubt that you are quite probably right... either way, what a gift for the British people...

 

[rgecy]

This show is just now airing, Odyssey was in contact with the Ministry of Defense while this whole things was taking place months ago. They decided to release the information to coincide with the show. Its not like this has all just happened this week. It seems that way because the news is just now breaking. But Odyssey and the MOD has done a good job of keeping it under wraps.

As for the $30 million, do the math. At $30k+ per day to opperate zues, the cost of conservation of thousands of artifacts, more archaeologist, emplyees, etc. Its not a 1 year project.

I think its the fact that its an American Company, pure and simple! If it was a privately owned British Company, I think there would be a different tone. Just as if it would have been a Spanish Company on the Black Swan.

I think Odyssey is practicing good Archaeology and salvage recovery and is making tremendous strides in showing the governments of the world, that they can find and salvage these wrecks and bring history to the public.

Respectfully,

RGecy

 

[mariner]

Robert,

I don't agree with you about the attitude being different toward an American company. The British Government are fair and reasonable people with a high level of integrity in their dealings. Odyssey had no difficulty in negotiating a very profitable sharing of the cargo (90:10) on the Sussex about two years ago. Then they did what they did with the coins from the Black Swan. I happened to be in the British Department of Heritage that deals with these things on the day that was announced the removal of the coins, and saw their reaction at first hand. I am sure that the Black Swan approach and publicity has damaged Odyssey's reputation with the British Government and the British Public, but it is clear that they were taking at a relatively early stage with the British Government (though probably not until they came across that skeleton) and I hope that a proper agreement is worked out, so we can all share in the knowledge, and so that Odyssey (and more important its shareholders) can get a proper return for their investment.

Mariner

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

RGecy if it would have been a Spanish company they would be in jail now for looting the Mercedes
Odyssey don't do things by chance, this has all been timed and planned to perfection.
The British government has to a make a difficult decision. And this decision will impact the Mercedes,
as both are Royal Naval war ships.
Apart from all the sue me sue you stuff and who gets the money, the world will be better off with all these
historical artifacts being brought back to be persevered for all.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[rgecy]

I am sure the Black Swan was a Black Eye for Odyssey, but the final word lies with the court.

And Yes, I am sure Odyssey is very calculating in everything they do. That's how a business is run. I am already calculating what I am going to do when I find my wreck!

As for the attitude towards an American Company, its not necessarily the governments atittude, but the Archaeologist (and public) who cry fowl and say they are stealling our heritage, etc, etc. I do believe the British Gov is very favorable towards working with Odyssey. Again, the Sussex is a good example.

You cannot deny that these guys are pushing the envelope of deep sea salvage and Archaeology. The only issue is, the do it for profit!

 

[4theMoney]

I kind of agree with RGecy that at the very least it being a foreign company makes Odyssey less popular. I also think that if it was only about the artifacts and archeology the negotiations would be simple. So the way I perceive it, its a money thing and the govt of orgin holds all the cards. The question is; where does private enterprise fit in?....or does it? If private enterprise locates a historical signifigant or sovereign immune find, should they sweep it under the rug?

 

[sabre15]

I agree with Robert on this one, i do have one difference of opinion though. Yes Odyssey has a black eye from the black swan dealings or so that is what we are lead to believe from Spain. But, Spain has not acted accordingly to salvagers over the years either. The Spanish government has recklessly pursued/accused of professional salvors over the years of pilfering "Spanish Heritage" wreck sites. This is the same government that pressures other countries, IE South American countries to do the same. Is it no wonder Ecuador and a few others have been so hard to work with. In my personal opinion, Spain's ruthless unprofessional manner around the globe finally came close to home to roost. Odyssey seeing the opportunity and they weighed their bet accordingly made a decision, a decision that someday may prove to be the right one. How many ships in our oceans without gold or silver do the Spaniards claim, their socialist and see the $$$$ signs ahead of everything else. I am sure they have some archaeologist doing it for the right reasons but, whenever gov't is invoved its either for political gain or for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

RGecy, Robert I'm not criticising Odyssey for planning and researching their many targets, what I am saying is
when they denied they knew any thing about the Black Swan ( Mercedes ) when their is documented evidence
to the contrary that they had been researching the Mercedes and other targets for two years earlier.
The difference is the coins where found easily without major excavations, the Bronze cannons are there as well
but, this would only prove what ship they came off, so its easy to say "we were not given any time to bring
them up", Yea sure that's why they blew sand away to see exactly what marking are on them.
It's like finding someones wallet, it has his licence with details and money, take the money and leave the wallet.
Question for sabre15
Can you tell me when the Kingdom of Spain has sold anything off the so called Spanish Heritage wreck sites
most of you make a living from SPANISH WRECK SITES ! Atocha, 1715 fleet and others.
I do agree with you it could be political but I think its more about having something that was yours taken away
under your nose and than having your faced rubbed into it.
What about the Galga Spain said they would split their Treasure, Try for one minute and pretend that hundreds of
American colonial naval war ships had sunk around the Spanish coast hundreds of years ago and were being
found and sold off . would you say finders keeps or what.
Spain is only claiming what is theirs, I hear France is now claiming one of their ships, funny thing that.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Ossy, I'm very interested in your opinion on just exactly what you think Odyssey Marine should have done from the moment they found all that treasure sitting on the bottom.

Tom

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Hi Tom,hope you are well and staying clear from any danger.
Good question, my opinion of cause. The same approach as with the victory, To advise Spain they had found
what they believe is the Mercedes and negotiate a deal, this would have befitted both Odyssey and Spain
and all who love history.
Theirs no argument that Odyssey have the best Technology in the world to find any lost historical maritime
ship wreck, and they offer the world this key to bring back this history that I love so much.
It's the fine line of selling your ancestors jewels to fund your company, some of us can afford to buy
some of these coins and artifacts but most can't so the question to you, how can we all benefit from
these discovery's.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Thanks Sam, trying to remember to keep my head down when things get crazy. Heading back to Florida in just 10 more days for a two week break.
I agree that in a perfect world that would be the way to go for the benefit of history and all parties involved, and it's really a shame that Odyssey and Spain do not share the same type of relationship as Odyssey has with the UK. However, Spains political position over the disputed international waters off Gibraltar kind of set the environment for Odysseys distrust towards the Spanish Government.
While I don't have a crystal ball to see into the future, I believe that the court will ultimately rule that the ship belongs to Spain, and some of the cargo, but the court will also award Odyssey the traditional salvage finders fee.

Tom

 

[jeff k]

Ossy... Odyssey did ask Spain to participate in the project, and they said no. It's ashame that some people in Spain can't see past their nose, and now it's costing them millions in legal fees. James Goold is the real pirate here, not Odyssey.

 

[jeff k]

We may learn more about low alpha lead in the next episode of Treasure Quest. Does anyone know the spot prices?

Turning Lead Into Gold —
Thursday, February 12 at 10PM ET/PT
The Odyssey team wants to return to a site loaded with lead ingots. When the wreck was first discovered, it was quickly dismissed – it wasn’t their treasure-laden target. But since then, they’ve learned that the ingots could be an extremely valuable type of lead, called low-alpha lead, that fetches a huge premium in the specialized electronics industry. On the way to the lead site, the team plans to stop at two other sites — a German U-Boat and a WWI era ship carrying a huge load of military supplies. While the team doesn’t expect treasure at these sites, the archaeologists can gather valuable forensic data. They find both sites heavily damaged by fishing trawlers and heavy weather is moving in. The crew now only has one day to investigate what could be the cash prize of the expedition. Will the lead test to be truly low-alpha? If so, they’re looking at a multi-million dollar find that will see lead . . . turned into gold.

 

[jeff k]

BBC Radio - Greg Stemm Profile...

http://tinyurl.com/awycn6

 

[sabre15]

Ossy, we americans have balls, if we have ships out there and we believe are being pilfered we will go kick someones a$$. We will treat every wreck not just ones that may have treasure as important as every ship out there. Spain dominated the seas once and occupied and pilfered many countries, that is no longer the case, but yet they only care about "their vessels" which are treasure laden and do not care for regular type cargo ships.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy, we americans have balls, if we have ships out there and we believe are being pilfered we will go kick someones a$$. We will treat every wreck not just ones that may have treasure as important as every ship out there. Spain dominated the seas once and occupied and pilfered many countries, that is no longer the case, but yet they only care about "their vessels" which are treasure laden and do not care for regular type cargo ships.

Sabre15 good response, I feel the same way, but I don't think it would have helped if the Spanish navy had sunk the Explorer
would have caused more problems, and as for the pilfering as you call it, all nations at the time did the same just because the
Spanish were there first ! we had those balls to go out and explore, but if you know European history you will know that conquering
others was the way it was done, the Romans taught as well.
And unless you are a red Indian your ancestors did exactly the same.
Jeff K you would have more information on exactly what was said to Spain. Did odyssey say help us look for Spanish wrecks or
we happen to come across the Mercedes and its cargo? what would you like to do? I am very interested in exactly what offer
Odyssey put to Spain.
Ossy

 

[4theMoney]

Ossy, just for the sake of speculation, What would you think to be a fair arrangement if Odyssey and spain were working together?

 

[jeff k]

Ossy... I copied the following from an affidavit of Gregory P. Stemm filed with the Court.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Thanks Jeff, I don't know exactly what was discussed between Odyssey and Spain but on the face of it,
It looks like Spain made a poor decision, I would like find out Spain side of what happen.
As I have said before I would like to see Odyssey work with Spain, I would love Spain to go out in the field
and recover all their lost ships, but I know this won't happen, their next best option is Odyssey !
4theMoney, A 50/50 split, Spain keeping all major historical artifacts would be fair, there has never been a
argument on Odyssey being paid for their work, Its more on the smash and grab and the Political undertones
on Gibraltar with our friends the English.
Cheers, Ossy