Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

[ECS]

Some believe the whole world is fiction?

Especially those that believe Scott Wolter's claims of history and science is wrong, and with his 1982 Bachelor Degree in Geology, he is going to correct the documented facts of professional academics in history and archeology.
'Nuff Said!

 

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[SSR]

One thing that I would say about making discoveries is that it is very hard. A lot of what we are presented with has very little depth to it at all, as if an opinion held by anyone with an education should have weight. That's now how it works. How it works is that you present your evidence (not on TV) and allow the skeptical world to tear you apart. When they can no longer do it you are safe for that moment in time. This tearing apart of allegations is required, so there is nothing in it to attack as being unreasonably callous. Those who cannot satisfy the critics are always going to have to work harder. No one wins in the court of public opinion with the power of persuasion. History is not supposed to be written by the victor of propaganda battles. There needs to be sufficient evidence. If there cannot be then we can never know. There are plenty of things that are no longer within our ability to know any more. Some people probably hate that notion.

 

[sasquash]

 

[ECS]

... It was a little before and after 1398 when Sinclair brought the Knight's Templar Treasure to Oak Island...

You state this as "FACT", but no actual verified documentation exists beyond speculation and supposition, including the highly questionable Sinclair Journals by Diana Jean Muir, that were never examined by reputable lettered academic historians, nor even given the opportunity to examine them.
Without this professional acknowledgement and acceptance by the professional community of history scholars, and the total lack of any sufficient contemporary Medieval collaborating evidence, the voyage of Sinclair to Nova Scotia is not "fact" but created lore.

 

[franklin]

When the treasures are recovered then it will become fact. I gave the location of the treasure on Oak Island to Oak Island Tours. We will see if the treasure is still where it was buried in 1398. If not there are three more ship loads of treasure in Mahone Bay and I know they are still there. There is another from the 1398 and it is not around Nova Scotia. Then there are eight more ship loads scattered across the USA. When these are recovered it will also verify lokiblossom's 18 ships because that is exactly how many ship loaded with treasure were brought over from 1314 up to the 17th Century. 5 1/2 ship's treasures have already been recovered and it filled three large 18th Century Cargo Ships. There are still 12 1/2 ship loads yet to recover. The treasure on Oak Island is only 1/2 of a ship's cargo of treasure. But enormous amount of treasure. So 5 1/2 plus 12 1/2 makes a total of 18 ships.

 

[ECS]

When the treasures are recovered then it will become fact...

...and that is a real big "IF" on several levels!
Until that future time of "when" , Sinclair and his Templar treasure voyage to Oak Island/Nova Scotia will remain acknowledged by the professional academic community as speculative supposition based on 19th century fabricated lore by Johann Reinhold Foster and Thomas Sinclair, and continued by Andrew Sinclair in 1992 and now with self- claimed Sinclair descendant, Diana Jean Muir.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

A 1939 areal photograph of a 1660ish windmill does not convince me of anything except - "hey, that's a pretty old windmill built in 1660".

 

[lokiblossom]

When the treasures are recovered then it will become fact. I gave the location of the treasure on Oak Island to Oak Island Tours. We will see if the treasure is still where it was buried in 1398. If not there are three more ship loads of treasure in Mahone Bay and I know they are still there. There is another from the 1398 and it is not around Nova Scotia. Then there are eight more ship loads scattered across the USA. When these are recovered it will also verify lokiblossom's 18 ships because that is exactly how many ship loaded with treasure were brought over from 1314 up to the 17th Century. 5 1/2 ship's treasures have already been recovered and it filled three large 18th Century Cargo Ships. There are still 12 1/2 ship loads yet to recover. The treasure on Oak Island is only 1/2 of a ship's cargo of treasure. But enormous amount of treasure. So 5 1/2 plus 12 1/2 makes a total of 18 ships.

It couldn't have been the same 18 though franklin, as the maximum lifespan of a wooden vessel would have been about 30 years. I assume you are considering that through those years they bought or built more vessels?

Cheers, Loki

 

[franklin]

It couldn't have been the same 18 though franklin, as the maximum lifespan of a wooden vessel would have been about 30 years. I assume you are considering that through those years they bought or built more vessels?

Cheers, Loki

You are correct. The ships were not the same but they were still built about the same size. One half of the Templar's Treasure remained in another part of France and the other one half was taken to Scotland. The one half took to Scotland was brought to "New Jerusalem" in the 14th Century and the other one half from France was taken to Scotland in the early 17th Century and was brought to "New Jerusalem" in the middle to later end of the 17th Century. Out of the 18 total ship cargoes of treasure only 5 1/2 have been recovered before the American Revolution and used for such. The other 12 1/2 ship loads of treasure have not been recovered unless someone accidentally found one of them in the past 200 years or so.

 

[tinpan]

HI Since 2015 The National Trust of Scotland has openly encouraged anyone who new evidence to present their case at a public meeting held once a month on the subject of the Battle of Bannockburn . The vast collection of documents from the First Ordinance Survey of 1865 66 will on hand to view only .which includes the battlefield ,grave sites near the old roman road , Stirling Castle . No one has yet presented their case for all to see . Thats odd ,some big claims openly published but no one is prepared to back up what they claim. TP

 

[lokiblossom]

HI Since 2015 The National Trust of Scotland has openly encouraged anyone who new evidence to present their case at a public meeting held once a month on the subject of the Battle of Bannockburn . The vast collection of documents from the First Ordinance Survey of 1865 66 will on hand to view only .which includes the battlefield ,grave sites near the old roman road , Stirling Castle . No one has yet presented their case for all to see . Thats odd ,some big claims openly published but no one is prepared to back up what they claim. TP

Did not know about such a meeting, but I would wager that any claims presented here on this forum have at one time or other been presented there. It would be interesting to read some of the meetings text.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Too bad there are a lot of records missing.

But a "lot of records" still exist, including contemporary signed documents of Henry Sinclair, as you have mentioned on these threads of seeing his signature.
With that premised, there are NO Medieval contemporary documents that mention a Sinclair voyage to the New World, nor mention that Sinclair was absent from his homeland during the time of the alleged voyage.
The very first mention of this alleged voyage was in 1875, when Richard Henry Major translated the fictional Zeno Manuscript into English and identified "Prince Zichmni" as "Prince Sinclair" without any real basis of proof.
With this translation as he sole evidence of a Sinclair voyage, descendant Thomas Sinclair claimed his ancestor discovered "America"/New World before Columbus, and petitioned the British government to acknowledge this, which they didn't and did not take his claim as legitimate history due to the total lack of collaborating records of this claimed voyage.

Which brings us back to your statement, "Too bad there are a lot of records missing".
While you state there are records missing and that there are NO contemporary Medieval records at all concerning this voyage of Sinclair, you have with several posts on these Oak Island threads presented highly detailed description of events surrounding this alleged Sinclair voyage, some reading like an adventure.
If the first mention of this Sinclair voyage was in 1875, 400 years after the alleged event, with no Medieval contemporary mention at all, and if, as you stated about a missing records:
What is the source of the highly detailed information that you have posted about this Henry Sinclair voyage that is not acknowledged by the professional academic community of scholars due to the absence of actual documentation of this voyage?

 

[SSR]

When the treasures are recovered then it will become fact. I gave the location of the treasure on Oak Island to Oak Island Tours. We will see if the treasure is still where it was buried in 1398. If not there are three more ship loads of treasure in Mahone Bay and I know they are still there. There is another from the 1398 and it is not around Nova Scotia. Then there are eight more ship loads scattered across the USA. When these are recovered it will also verify lokiblossom's 18 ships because that is exactly how many ship loaded with treasure were brought over from 1314 up to the 17th Century. 5 1/2 ship's treasures have already been recovered and it filled three large 18th Century Cargo Ships. There are still 12 1/2 ship loads yet to recover. The treasure on Oak Island is only 1/2 of a ship's cargo of treasure. But enormous amount of treasure. So 5 1/2 plus 12 1/2 makes a total of 18 ships.

You aren't alone. I personally know of another person who claims to know where the treasure is and has seen fit to inform the Laginas about it. Not surprisingly it doesn't jive with your location or even its nature. One great commonality is that he is in possession of a unverified account written more than a century and a half ago that he interprets as being historical fact. I will assure you this person is as convinced as you are. From my understanding there have been many who have written in to the current owners and given their version of a reality they are convinced of. The most ardent of them was probably Petter Amundsen. He's gone as far as to try and stop these people from destroying a treasure he is convinced demands protection. I would love to bring all these people together in a room and have them be forced to listen to all others' highly charged speeches about why they are right.

The book on OI's symbolic mystery was written well before the first searcher activities of 1857 in the 1840s. It still goes without much scrutiny because it does one thing that is very undesirable--it contradicts just about everyone who is convinced they know about a treasure there. The mystery is a mystery because it is supposed to be a mystery, and it can never be solved. It can be understood only in terms of why it is important that there be mysteries for some people. I place OI in a very long tradition of stories associated with "trickster" figures of ancient mythologies. The Greek's Hermes and The Norse's Loki are the best known. The point of the trickster was always to fool you into discovering something about yourself. This is an idea that permeates modern Freemasonry too. Haliburton realized that OI is based on certain myths that have a long tradition of pointing us to the inner realm within ourselves to define our own realities about the world. The old esoteric message is that you are in fact Godly and need not be told anything about the nature of Gods.

 

[franklin]

I still believe I am correct on the treasures location. Whether they came back and recovered the treasure I do not know. What I do know is that the treasure left on Oak Island is only 1/2 the size it was when it was first buried in two separate locations. There are three more treasures in Mahone Bay and they are still buried there. I do not care what other people believe what work they have done. I only know what I have done and what I know. I have checked out Petter Admundsen's work. He may be right but also he may be wrong. I evaluate everything and then proceed with my work. I do not quit until I know definitely. And I do now know definitely.

 

[lokiblossom]

I place OI in a very long tradition of stories associated with "trickster" figures of ancient mythologies. The Greek's Hermes and The Norse's Loki are the best known. The point of the trickster was always to fool you into discovering something about yourself.

Why thank you, always nice to be appreciated!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

... One half of the Templar's Treasure remained in another part of France and the other one half was taken to Scotland.
The one half took to Scotland was brought to "New Jerusalem" in the 14th Century and the other one half from France was taken to Scotland in the early 17th Century and was brought to "New Jerusalem" in the middle to later end of the 17th Century.
Out of the 18 total ship cargoes of treasure only 5 1/2 have been recovered before the American Revolution and used for such. The other 12 1/2 ship loads of treasure have not been recovered unless someone accidentally found one of them in the past 200 years or so.

Most of the Templars wealth(treasure) was land that was put up as collateral for their loans, and became Templar property upon default. King Phillip of France, unable to pay back what he borrowed from the Templars, brought charges against them to avoid losing property.
There is NO known inventory record of 18 Templar ships full of treasure, if they actually possessed that much treasure, or the nature of that treasure if it actually existed, or of any recovery by anyone before the American Revolution.
The odds of keeping such a large scale movement of treasure over several centuries time a secret is phenomenal, but still if this vast treasure was recovered before the American Revolution, someone and probably others knew according to the presented lore.
But take into consideration, if this was a centuries top secret operation of "hidden history", what, where and by whom did this claim of 18 Templar treasure ships sailing to "New Jerusalem" (North America) originate?
Is this absolute fact, or some ones flight of fantasy?

 

[franklin]

Most of the Templars wealth(treasure) was land that was put up as collateral for their loans, and became Templar property upon default. King Phillip of France, unable to pay back what he borrowed from the Templars, brought charges against them to avoid losing property.
There is NO known inventory record of 18 Templar ships full of treasure, if they actually possessed that much treasure, or the nature of that treasure if it actually existed, or of any recovery by anyone before the American Revolution.
The odds of keeping such a large scale movement of treasure over several centuries time a secret is phenomenal, but still if this vast treasure was recovered before the American Revolution, someone and probably others knew according to the presented lore.
But take into consideration, if this was a centuries top secret operation of "hidden history", what, where and by whom did this claim of 18 Templar treasure ships sailing to "New Jerusalem" (North America) originate?
Is this absolute fact, or some ones flight of fantasy?

Of the 12 1/2 treasures not recovered, I know where 11 1/2 of them are located. So something must be absolute fact. A recovery may come this year if the Laginas do the location I sent them?

I have the inventory for 5 1/2 of the ships treasure which is almost 1/3 of the total treasures, but I can not post the inventory yet. I have given my word and will keep it until the time is right. The Knight's Templar had more treasures in Europe and else where but I do not know where? They hid their treasure maps in 33 copper cylinders and they have not been located. I have some ideas where the copper cylinders may be but it takes deep pockets to go in search of them.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Which was the 1/2 treasure that was recovered?

 

[ECS]

Don't you think the Laginas have their own copies of Diana Jean Muir's SINCLAIR JOUNALS?
Then again, Scott Wolter has his doubts about Templar treasures buried at Oak Island/Nova Scotia and the JOURNALS:
"If the Journals are genuine...then the "treasures" found under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and elsewhere in the Middle East at the time of the Crusades, did make its way to North America"- Scott Wolter November 29, 2018
The "if" and "then" are not an expression of confidence in Muir's "discovered" Sinclair Journals of the Sinclair voyage or of Templar treasures being brought to North America, and gives him an out when all is proven to be speculative fiction.

 

[ECS]

Of the 12 1/2 treasures not recovered, I know where 11 1/2 of them are located.
So something must be absolute fact...

To be classified as an "absolute fact", the data must be universally accepted by the academic community of historians, archeologist, anthropologist, and other related disciplines once it is reviewed and proven to be accurate information.
To the best of my knowledge, none of your posted "facts" have ever been submitted for this professional evaluation and review, and probably never will for obvious reasons.