Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

Their galley's brought 6 barrels of acorns each.
 

I guess I missed something...has it been established somewhere that Templars were the ONLY ones to use coconut coir for anything? Did they, like, have a patent on it? They actually STOLE the idea from the Indians and Indonesians, who had been using it for rope and boat caulking (similar to oakum) for centuries before Christ.

Did they bring tons of coconut coir from the Middle East when they left Arwad (and the entire Levant) in 1303 "just in case" they were outlawed 4 years later, and would have to hide tons of treasure on a remote island thousands of miles away? Good planning!

Did these shiploads of coconut coir set in their ships the entire four years they were waiting to "escape"?

It must have REALLY "been about the money", since Pope Clement absolved and pardoned ALL Templars of heresy and other crimes only 10 months after the notorious day of Oct 13, 1307, in two documents (the "Chinon Parchments") dated Aug 1308. This included all those who had "confessed", as well as those that had died during torture, or executed, were "restored to the sacraments", so their souls were saved.
 

Well, you're preaching to the coir here with questions that cannot be answered.

Even is it is proven beyond doubt that old coir exists on Oak Island . . . that only proves the existence of old coir on Oak Island and the spiral of speculation continues.
 

DaveVanP said:
I guess I missed something...has it been established somewhere that Templars were the ONLY ones to use coconut coir for anything? Did they, like, have a patent on it? They actually STOLE the idea from the Indians and Indonesians, who had been using it for rope and boat caulking (similar to oakum) for centuries before Christ.

Did they bring tons of coconut coir from the Middle East when they left Arwad (and the entire Levant) in 1303 "just in case" they were outlawed 4 years later, and would have to hide tons of treasure on a remote island thousands of miles away? Good planning!

Did these shiploads of coconut coir set in their ships the entire four years they were waiting to "escape"?

It must have REALLY "been about the money", since Pope Clement absolved and pardoned ALL Templars of heresy and other crimes only 10 months after the notorious day of Oct 13, 1307, in two documents (the "Chinon Parchments") dated Aug 1308. This included all those who had "confessed", as well as those that had died during torture, or executed, were "restored to the sacraments", so their souls were saved.
Click to expand...

Actually the Templars didn't completely leave the "Levant" until much later, but a large contingent did leave Cyprus in early 1307, obeying a 1306 order by Clement for the Grand Master to meet him in Poitiers, and yes with coir ropes and packing. They didn't steal it, the fibre was well known to have been used throughout the "Levant" brought there by Arab traders from India. Having spent many years in the "Levant", coir would have been the most likely choice for all uses requiring lines or ropes. And it didn't sit in their vessels for four years, more like four months.

Cheers, Loki

As for the Chinon Parchment, not that it makes any difference but is there any evidence it saw the light of day in the 14th century?
 

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lokiblossom said:
Certainly solid evidence.
Click to expand...
...of someone's old coir doormat washing up with other flotsam and jetsam on Oak Island giving rise to speculation of Templar visits to Nova Scotia.
Solid evidence only if the "de Molay Bros Templar Brand" label was still attached to that doormat.
 

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lokiblossom said:
As for the Chinon Parchment, not that it makes any difference but is there any evidence it saw the light of day in the 14th century?
Click to expand...

There are references to it prior to about 1625; then no mention of it again until it was found in the Vatican Archives in 2001.

My reference to "stealing" is from the inference that any ANY coconut coir found from the 14th Century could ONLY be of Templar provenance; that ANY presence of coir anywhere in the world dated from that time is "proof" that Templars were present at that location at that time, indicating that the Templars "stole" or "confiscated" ALL coconut coir in use at the time and kept it for themselves...since they were the ONLY ones who used it....apparently....and also apparent, from the assertions, is that no one AFTER the Templars used it...unless, of course the Templars continued covertly, as Freemasons, KGC, Illuminati, Rosicrucians, Bilderbergers, Bohemian Grove, Rotary Club, Mouseketeers...
 

DaveVanP said:
There are references to it prior to about 1625; then no mention of it again until it was found in the Vatican Archives in 2001.

My reference to "stealing" is from the inference that any ANY coconut coir found from the 14th Century could ONLY be of Templar provenance; that ANY presence of coir anywhere in the world dated from that time is "proof" that Templars were present at that location at that time, indicating that the Templars "stole" or "confiscated" ALL coconut coir in use at the time and kept it for themselves...since they were the ONLY ones who used it....apparently....and also apparent, from the assertions, is that no one AFTER the Templars used it...unless, of course the Templars continued covertly, as Freemasons, KGC, Illuminati, Rosicrucians, Bilderbergers, Bohemian Grove, Rotary Club, Mouseketeers...
Click to expand...

There are no other references to it in the Atlantic Basin prior to 1499 outside of the Eastern Mediterranean. It did exist throughout the Far East, Indian Ocean and Pacific Basin.

Cheers, Loki
 

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lokiblossom said:
There are no other references to it in the Atlantic Basin prior to 1499 outside of the Eastern Mediterranean. It did exist throughout the Far East, Indian Ocean and Pacific Basin.

Cheers, Loki
Click to expand...
Total BS, as ususal
 

Can we please understand something here. Dating degraded coconut fiber in marine environments is prone to large error. Any activated carbon material is going to suffer from carbon contamination from the environment. Environmentally activated carbon is surface "sticky" to other chemicals species. What type of error are we talking about? It can be 800-1000 years in some cases. What does that tell us? It tells us that a result of ca.1400 is statistically the same as the result ca.1800. This is true even if you are given a 95% confidence interval for the analytical method. That just tells you that the method itself will generate the same level of error with that much confidence every time you perform the analysis. Any result that appears to be an outlier must be corroborated by other dating methods. Dendrochronology is often used if applicable. On OI nothing else tested has ever produced the outlier result that coconut fiber has. That means it's suspect because we do have other dating methods for things at or below the same levels that are attributable to humans. If you were told the coconut fiber was found above the level of the various wooden artifacts produced in the cove would you confidently state that your coconut dating was rock solid? What is happening on OI is that everything else is being cast aside except for the outlier result which is then said to demand it's own historical interpretation. Be very careful to not be sucked into that suggestion.
 

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SSR said:
Can we please understand something here. Dating degraded coconut fiber in marine environments is prone to large error. Any activated carbon material is going to suffer from carbon contamination from the environment. Environmentally activated carbon is surface "sticky" to other chemicals species. What type of error are we talking about? It can be 800-1000 years in some cases. What does that tell us? It tells us that a result of ca.1400 is statistically the same as the result ca.1800. This is true even if you are given a 95% confidence interval for the analytical method. That just tells you that the method itself will generate the same level of error with that much confidence every time you perform the analysis. Any result that appears to be an outlier must be corroborated by other dating methods. Dendrochronology is often used if applicable. On OI nothing else tested has ever produced the outlier result that coconut fiber has. That means it's suspect because we do have other dating methods for things at or below the same levels that are attributable to humans. If you were told the coconut fiber was found above the level of the various wooden artifacts produced in the cove would you confidently state that your coconut dating was rock solid? What is happening on OI is that everything else is being cast aside except for the outlier result which is then said to demand it's own historical interpretation. Be very careful to not be sucked into that suggestion.
Click to expand...

There were many different C-14 datings, all by reputable organizations, most by Beta Analytic. The fibre was not from the alleged money pit, some coming from the vicinity of Smiths Cove other samples came from the Oak Island Museum. And there were some wood samples dated from earlier then the fibre, along with some charcoals from much earlier. Many have tried to discredit the C-14 dating, but all of the labs have furnished elaborate data sheets showing the various margins for error. There are 56 pages of this data available which I also have in my collection plus a couple of others from other sources.

If this scientific information isn't acceptable than I suggest writing Beta Analytic and get their opinion.

Cheers, Loki
 

lokiblossom said:
Were not even talking about the money pit cousin.
Click to expand...

Talkin' 'bout Shaft, can you dig it, Right on, but I heard Shaft was dug by mean Knight Templars...
Hush your mouth
But were talkin' 'bout Shaft!
Don't ignore the coir in the Shaft!
Right on.
 

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