Not clouds

[somehiker]

I hope it hasn't been a complete burn through at Tortilla Ranch and along 88 from Fish Creek Canyon to The Apache Lake Marina turnoff. I've always enjoyed the odd day of exploring down that way, when the temps hit 100+. And the trail to Circlestone was always such a nice hike as well, in almost any weather .

 

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[deducer]

lol..but when your facts are incorrect you have lost..if rumors are true i know what you do for a living and i hear you are very good at it...stick with what you know...leave everything else to the experts in that particular field

I've cited multi-international sources, as well as scientific ones. Are they either all wrong or sustaining a massive conspiracy?

 

[deducer]

Oil and Gas yes, but also bio fuels and many of the oil related chemicals, plastics, and other materials from which solar,wind, and other eco equipment is made. Just as with politics, from Libertarian to Republican and now, with their anti Trump bias, back to Libertarian style self interest, they will put their chips where there is the lowest risk. But make no mistake. They are only players in a game, with both teams owned by the same, and very exclusive owners group..... more for entertainment meant to keep us commoners occupied with counting scores......than any real change to the way they make their money.

Which is why they are terrified, and especially of the solutions to climate change which is going to be a great equalizer- instead of getting power from a fossil fuel plant 1,000 miles away, you'll get it right from your rooftop in the form of solar power. What we do as far as mode of transportation and what we do with energy isn't going to change, only the source of that energy is going to change from fossil fuel to electric, and again right from your rooftop, free from any grid.

The transformation is going to generate millions upon millions of jobs as we wrest control from a tiny consortium that has perfected a monopoly on oil.

Can't make a monopoly of the sun, it's everywhere.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I hope it hasn't been a complete burn through at Tortilla Ranch and along 88 from Fish Creek Canyon to The Apache Lake Marina turnoff. I've always enjoyed the odd day of exploring down that way, when the temps hit 100+. And the trail to Circlestone was always such a nice hike as well, in almost any weather .

Wayne, I bet the winter will be pretty glum, but by spring things should look pretty good. You will see some fire damage for years on larger trees, and the burned bushes will just look like sticks...but it'll be pretty good, the flowers and grasses will be out...was just up where the Gladiator fire went through in 2012, and the only way I could tell there had been a fire was all the black marks on my pants where I brushed up against old burnt sticks...looked like a bunch of pencil marks on my pants...but I never really noticed them while it was happening, because everything was pretty green.

In the meantime, here's a few pics of the area between Fish Creek Canyon and Apache Lake, just because

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Which is why they are terrified, and especially of the solutions to climate change which is going to be a great equalizer- instead of getting power from a fossil fuel plant 1,000 miles away, you'll get it right from your rooftop in the form of solar power. What we do as far as mode of transportation and what we do with energy isn't going to change, only the source of that energy is going to change from fossil fuel to electric, and again right from your rooftop, free from any grid.

The transformation is going to generate millions upon millions of jobs as we wrest control from a tiny consortium that has perfected a monopoly on oil.

Can't make a monopoly of the sun, it's everywhere.

Amen, that's something about climate change we can agree on!

 

[deducer]

Amen, that's something about climate change we can agree on!

The quality of life is just going to be so much better, and the majority of us will be off the grid and not configured to the whims of a monopoly.

And the rest of the solutions to climate change is just common sense, things that we should all be doing already: water conservation, save more/spend less on things we don't need, eat more healthier.

 

[deducer]

Wayne, I bet the winter will be pretty glum, but by spring things should look pretty good. You will see some fire damage for years on larger trees, and the burned bushes will just look like sticks...but it'll be pretty good, the flowers and grasses will be out...was just up where the Gladiator fire went through in 2012, and the only way I could tell there had been a fire was all the black marks on my pants where I brushed up against old burnt sticks...looked like a bunch of pencil marks on my pants...but I never really noticed them while it was happening, because everything was pretty green.

In the meantime, here's a few pics of the area between Fish Creek Canyon and Apache Lake, just because

One of my favorite pictures, also of the same area, but from way up high:

 

[sdcfia]

Which is why they are terrified, and especially of the solutions to climate change which is going to be a great equalizer- instead of getting power from a fossil fuel plant 1,000 miles away, you'll get it right from your rooftop in the form of solar power. What we do as far as mode of transportation and what we do with energy isn't going to change, only the source of that energy is going to change from fossil fuel to electric, and again right from your rooftop, free from any grid.

The transformation is going to generate millions upon millions of jobs as we wrest control from a tiny consortium that has perfected a monopoly on oil.

Can't make a monopoly of the sun, it's everywhere.

Good points deducer. IMO the planet's more rational long-term energy source (none of us is likely to ever see it) will be the exploitation of earth's geomagnetic field, which is also strongly augmented/maintained by the sun. Nicola Tesla was on this track but big oil shipwrecked his credibility and the whole idea of "free energy", a tactic you pointed out. Solar cells and wind generators are effective up to a point, but of questionable cost efficiency on mega-scale applications.

That said, the "peak oil" paradigm is highly questionable too - a manipulation scheme to keep the price of crude higher. The planet may well have incredibly more reserves than we are led to believe, which makes an energy conversion away from fossil fuels strictly a political/power issue. As always, with everything, follow the money.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Good points deducer. IMO the planet's more rational long-term energy source (none of us is likely to ever see it) will be the exploitation of earth's geomagnetic field, which is also strongly augmented/maintained by the sun. Nicola Tesla was on this track but big oil shipwrecked his credibility and the whole idea of "free energy", a tactic you pointed out. Solar cells and wind generators are effective up to a point, but of questionable cost efficiency on mega-scale applications.

That said, the "peak oil" paradigm is highly questionable too - a manipulation scheme to keep the price of crude higher. The planet may well have incredibly more reserves than we are led to believe, which makes an energy conversion away from fossil fuels strictly a political/power issue. As always, with everything, follow the money.

Hey Steve,

One thing that's going to be a huge game changer that we WILL see in our lifetimes, actually in just a few years, is real solar efficiency with panels made from pretty common materials. We can get ~0.5-1kW per square meter of energy at sea level from solar, which means it's probably the most abundant energy source available on earth. Even with old PV panels, the cost per watt was getting pretty close to other energy sources...now with perovskite panels coming online, not only can they harvest more energy than a traditional PV panel, they're made from common stuff...i.e. they're CHEAP.

 

[azdave35]

Amen, that's something about climate change we can agree on!

yes sir....especially in arizona..never a shortage of sun around here

 

[azdave35]

The quality of life is just going to be so much better, and the majority of us will be off the grid and not configured to the whims of a monopoly.

And the rest of the solutions to climate change is just common sense, things that we should all be doing already: water conservation, save more/spend less on things we don't need, eat more healthier.

not in our lifetime....salt river project makes it pretty difficult to use solar power...they charge a surcharge just for you having solar....i have a couple friends that have it on their house...most of the power companies are owned by the government..they bought salt river project in the 40's

 

[azdave35]

The quality of life is just going to be so much better, and the majority of us will be off the grid and not configured to the whims of a monopoly.

And the rest of the solutions to climate change is just common sense, things that we should all be doing already: water conservation, save more/spend less on things we don't need, eat more healthier.

not in our lifetime....salt river project makes it pretty difficult to use solar power...they charge a surcharge just for you having solar....i have a couple friends that have it on their house...most of the power companies are owned by the government..they bought salt river project in the 40's

 

[AbTexEx]

Twitter update







AJones

 

[Mad Machinist]

Hey Steve,

One thing that's going to be a huge game changer that we WILL see in our lifetimes, actually in just a few years, is real solar efficiency with panels made from pretty common materials. We can get ~0.5-1kW per square meter of energy at sea level from solar, which means it's probably the most abundant energy source available on earth. Even with old PV panels, the cost per watt was getting pretty close to other energy sources...now with perovskite panels coming online, not only can they harvest more energy than a traditional PV panel, they're made from common stuff...i.e. they're CHEAP.

The new cadmium-Telluride-selenium panels are hitting 22.1%. And First Solar here in Arizona is claiming a 29 cent per watt production cost.

Nothing wrong with going solar. Just do it because you want to be independent, not because you bought into the whole man made climate change CO2 crap.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne, I bet the winter will be pretty glum, but by spring things should look pretty good. You will see some fire damage for years on larger trees, and the burned bushes will just look like sticks...but it'll be pretty good, the flowers and grasses will be out...was just up where the Gladiator fire went through in 2012, and the only way I could tell there had been a fire was all the black marks on my pants where I brushed up against old burnt sticks...looked like a bunch of pencil marks on my pants...but I never really noticed them while it was happening, because everything was pretty green.

In the meantime, here's a few pics of the area between Fish Creek Canyon and Apache Lake, just because

View attachment 1727133

View attachment 1727134

View attachment 1727135

I expect a bounceback to be well underway by springtime as well, with the grasses, flowers and other plants which grow fairly rapidly anyway. I assume your photos are pre-burn examples.
The news media has been showing some aftermath shots of the area between Superior and the southern sups. Some Saguaro are burned right through the ribs for the lower 3' or so, and badly charred well above that, while in other places it looks like the only casualties were scattered creosote bushes.

 

[azdave35]

The new cadmium-Telluride-selenium panels are hitting 22.1%. And First Solar here in Arizona is claiming a 29 cent per watt production cost.

Nothing wrong with going solar. Just do it because you want to be independent, not because you bought into the whole man made climate change CO2 crap.

when my friends did solar i quizzed them on it...they are both leasing the system...if you were to buy it..it would cost 30k and you would be responsible for repairs and install...if you lease they install the system and take care of all repairs...now for the bad part.....the rent on the system is $100 a month...and salt river project charges a $100 a month surcharge for allowing you to go solar....so its 200 a month right off the bat.....for 7 months out of the year the srp bill without solar is usually 100 or under....and in the summer months srp charges you double....so the bill jumps up to 300-400 a month...if you do the math i dont think you are saving much if anything...hopefully as technology increases it will be more cost effective

 

[somehiker]

The new cadmium-Telluride-selenium panels are hitting 22.1%. And First Solar here in Arizona is claiming a 29 cent per watt production cost.

Nothing wrong with going solar. Just do it because you want to be independent, not because you bought into the whole man made climate change CO2 crap.

While I'm sure the diehard's will claim it's a no biggie, I've been wondering what the effects will be on the environment, including wildlife, AND climate once millions of acres...or square miles of the earth's surface is blanketed by solar panels. And what will be the effects of vast windmill farms on the air currents around the globe, since they are only proposed for places with the "right" conditions ?
Because so far we are only in the experimental stage, which is nothing comparable to what is being proposed. While solar and/or wind powered housing may not require anything greater than it's own footprint to generate adequate power....IF the temps are not too low for weeks and months on end.....but industry and high volume food production requires far more energy that solar and wind cannot supply without using a hugely disparate proportion of this planet's available surface area. And just where is all that land going to come from ?

 

[Loke]

While I'm sure the diehard's will claim it's a no biggie, I've been wondering what the effects will be on the environment, including wildlife, AND climate once millions of acres...or square miles of the earth's surface is blanketed by solar panels. And what will be the effects of vast windmill farms on the air currents around the globe, since they are only proposed for places with the "right" conditions ?
Because so far we are only in the experimental stage, which is nothing comparable to what is being proposed. While solar and/or wind powered housing may not require anything greater than it's own footprint to generate adequate power....IF the temps are not too low for weeks and months on end.....but industry and high volume food production requires far more energy that solar and wind cannot supply without using a hugely disparate proportion of this planet's available surface area. And just where is all that land going to come from ?

I couldn't agree more!! You just cannot siphon off energy without affecting something. I don't believe anyone has ever researched what the effects of world-wide use of solar panels and/or wind-turbines will be, but ... it's bound to have an effect on the climate eventually. First and foremost plant-life, which again will affect other parts etc etc ad infinitum. I have always maintained the inherent danger in something we don't know how it will eventually affect us - but everybody just laughs ... (sigh)

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I expect a bounceback to be well underway by springtime as well, with the grasses, flowers and other plants which grow fairly rapidly anyway. I assume your photos are pre-burn examples.
The news media has been showing some aftermath shots of the area between Superior and the southern sups. Some Saguaro are burned right through the ribs for the lower 3' or so, and badly charred well above that, while in other places it looks like the only casualties were scattered creosote bushes.

Yep, photos were pre-burn. Spring 2011, I think. Posted them as a salute to the old landscape you said you liked to roam on occasion.

Sorry to hear about the saguaros, always a bummer to see the old guys with all the arms get taken out...any of them actually, but especially the old gents...

 

[Mad Machinist]

Hate to tell you guys this but renewable energy will NEVER be sufficient for heavy industry. It simply uses too much power. Now for home based systems, it may work just fine.

But the problem is the fact the "green energy" isn't so green when you drill down into it. The materials have to be lined somewhere and depending on WHERE they are mined the effects on the environment can be anywhere from minor and short term to severe and long term.

Once battery tech gets better and solar panels come down to a reasonable price maybe more people will buy them.