Not clouds

[deducer]

Ok the whole man made climate change because of CO2 is nothing more than a myth created by a bunch of people who get their rocks off through fear, power, and control.

Water vapor is far, far more potent than CO2. https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html

Now add into that little bit from NASA, this little gem right here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_condensation_nuclei

Now let's take a look at the PM 10, PM 5 ,and PM 2.5 rules concerning particulate matter or the lack there of. So without condensation nuclei, we end up with a super saturated atmosphere from humidity. Ever wonder why we have to seed clouds to make it rain anymore?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_physics#Supersaturation

So when an atmosphere is supersaturated, it retains a hell of alot of heat. Far, far more than CO2. From what I have read it accounts for 60-70% of "global warming".

Now when you finally introduce condesation nuclei into a super saturated atmosphere, you get and explosion of sorts leading to torrential downpours, flooding, blizzards, etc.

On to tornado formation to dispel another myth of the AGW crowd. In order for a tornado to form you need a collision between a warm moist front AND an unusually cold dry air mass. This sets up wind shear that starts the rotation of the tornado. The colder the day air mass the more violent the tornado. This is why there are very very few tornados in the Tropics.

I guess in essence you could say man made climate change does exist, but it is NOT from CO2. It is from the oh so stupid people that removed particulate matter from the atmosphere in the name of human health.

What does it matter what the drivers of climate change are? Whether it's carbon dioxide, "water vapor." or overpopulation, they are all drivers of climate change.

From the article you just quoted:

Because the new precise observations agree with existing assessments of water vapor's impact, researchers are more confident than ever in model predictions that Earth's leading greenhouse gas will contribute to a temperature rise of a few degrees by the end of the century.

This is the definition of climate change.

So you do agree that climate change is for real, I guess.

Dave and Jim, by agreeing that overpopulation is real and is a factor, and having mentioned so, have also inadvertently agreed that climate change is real.

 

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[deducer]

Now back to the forest for deducer who has pretty much proven he has no understanding of nature here a few posts back.

Mother Nature will flood the world with "babies" sontag a few survive. Most die from disease, predation, resource competition, fire, and a bunch of other things I can't think of right now.

So an acre will get flooded with 700-1000 trees in Hope's that a few will survive to maturity to start the process over again. Most small trees tend to die of due to resource completion for things like sunlight and water. The fee lucky ones survive. However, when a forest get overstocked to the point of building ladder fuels then it's only a matter of time before it burns. Ladder fuels are small trees that have not developed any fire resistance yet so they burn allowing the flames to climb up into the canopy. Once in the canopy, the wind takes over and everything burns. The thing about a fire of this intensity everyone needs to understand is the fact that a soil has a small quantity of natural oils in it. So when it burns it verifies the soil basically turning into a sheet of glass that no plant can penetrate to take root. Over hundreds of years this citified soil breaks down but in the mean time no water can get through that layer either so you have no bank storage of water in stream banks for later use. All the water just runs off and creates alot of havoc downstream.

Another thing about major fires is the ash that is produced. It is usually alkaline in nature and has a great effect on the local flora and fauna. It also tends to be beaten onto fine particles that settle on the river bottoms plugging up the stream best preventing water from seeping through into the ground for other plants to use. This is called streambed armoring and it does greatly affect those who need a loose streambed to reproduce.

So as you all can see it isn't global warming that is making things worse. It's a small group of very loud eco freaks who think they know everything when they actually no nothing nor do they care about the consequences of their actions. They just blame it all on climate change.

Yet, despite all the forest fires that have happened since the birth of this planet, nature itself and the ecosystems of this planet have fared just fine, including all species of animals.

It is only within the last hundred years that we've seen mass extinctions occur, and many species wiped out. And very little of that has to do with forest fires.

Because of the great restrictions humans have placed upon natural preserves or parks, forest fires are much more devastating because species have nowhere else to escape to or live, while their original habitat regenerates itself.

And your solution to this is even further human intrusion into natural preserves in the form of pruning, or "forest management" to prevent forest fires from happening.

 

[deducer]

That is the source you do not understand they are pulling water out of the lakes that start the head waters of the Colorado river.They are putting pipe lines in and sucking the water back over to the other side out of those lakes that start the head waters.

While I don't deny that overuse is also a factor, one of the biggest factor is also that not enough snow is melting to adequately supply the headwaters.

 

[deducer]

It's "Reefer Madness" plus "Duck and Cover" on steroids.
Only there's more money in it.....for billionaires at least.

You would be surprised by how many billionaires, especially the Koch brothers (who made their vast fortune from gas and oil) want the status quo to remain the same, and spend millions in blocking bills from being passed, that would help with conservation, management, or anything that would improve living conditions for everyone.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

What does it matter what the drivers of climate change are? Whether it's carbon dioxide, "water vapor." or overpopulation, they are all drivers of climate change.

From the article you just quoted:



This is the definition of climate change.

So you do agree that climate change is for real, I guess.

Dave and Jim, by agreeing that overpopulation is real and is a factor, and having mentioned so, have also inadvertently agreed that climate change is real.

Ha! Nice try amigo. Perhaps what you mean is that I believe human demand outstrips available water supply? And this somehow equates to me agreeing that your definition of climate change is real?

Nope. Let's just agree to disagree on this

 

[sdcfia]

Climate is continually changing on Earth. The IPCC model has cherry picked or fudged most of its data in order to foster political agendas. Their grant-funded members are the ones who form that "97% consensus". Media loves the story and pushes the propaganda, but real science has been comprehensively demonstrating the obvious - the sun overwhelmingly controls climate and weather on earth. Yes, mankind's activities somewhat add to the mix, and moving away from fossil fuels is a good idea, but man-caused CO2 in the atmosphere is only a small contributor to long term climate change. Look at long-term patterns, not short-term hysteria.

A good place to begin educating yourself about reality is this website. There are many other sources of independent information available, but this daily report is a start. Never too late to learn new facts.

 

[deducer]

Ha! Nice try amigo. Perhaps what you mean is that I believe human demand outstrips available water supply? And this somehow equates to me agreeing that your definition of climate change is real?

Nope. Let's just agree to disagree on this

Human demand outstripping available water supply, is still an human influence on the environment, and that's the definition of climate change.

 

[azdave35]

Human demand outstripping available water supply, is still an human influence on the environment, and that's the definition of climate change.

lol...you don't like to compromise do you?...everyone here thinks you lost this battle...like jim said..lets just agree to disagree....back to the ldm

 

[deducer]

lol...you don't like to compromise do you?...everyone here thinks you lost this battle...like jim said..lets just agree to disagree....back to the ldm

It's not me who doesn't compromise- it's nature. I'm not in this to win some sort of debate, I'm just stating facts.

 

[azdave35]

It's not me who doesn't compromise- it's nature. I'm not in this to win some sort of debate, I'm just stating facts.

lol..but when your facts are incorrect you have lost..if rumors are true i know what you do for a living and i hear you are very good at it...stick with what you know...leave everything else to the experts in that particular field

 

[somehiker]

You would be surprised by how many billionaires, especially the Koch brothers (who made their vast fortune from gas and oil) want the status quo to remain the same, and spend millions in blocking bills from being passed, that would help with conservation, management, or anything that would improve living conditions for everyone.

Oil and Gas yes, but also bio fuels and many of the oil related chemicals, plastics, and other materials from which solar,wind, and other eco equipment is made. Just as with politics, from Libertarian to Republican and now, with their anti Trump bias, back to Libertarian style self interest, they will put their chips where there is the lowest risk. But make no mistake. They are only players in a game, with both teams owned by the same, and very exclusive owners group..... more for entertainment meant to keep us commoners occupied with counting scores......than any real change to the way they make their money.

 

[somehiker]

Human demand outstripping available water supply, is still an human influence on the environment, and that's the definition of climate change.

All this is starting to sound like a sequel to Animal Farm.

 

[azdave35]

Oil and Gas yes, but also bio fuels and many of the oil related chemicals, plastics, and other materials from which solar,wind, and other eco equipment is made. Just as with politics, from Libertarian to Republican and now, with their anti Trump bias, back to Libertarian style self interest, they will put their chips where there is the lowest risk. But make no mistake. They are only players in a game, with both teams owned by the same, and very exclusive owners group..... more for entertainment meant to keep us commoners occupied with counting scores......than any real change to the way they make their money.

kinds like divide and conquer

 

[somehiker]

kinds like divide and conquer

That's the end game.
To get everyone on line and on the grid.
Divide, conquer, and control.
Food, water, energy, medical, transportation, housing, education......
Everything the general population needs, including personal finances (cashless society), all which can be shut down or denied at the push of a button if "troubles" should arise.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

All this is starting to sound like a sequel to Animal Farm.

You mean this one?:

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”

― George Orwell, 1984

 

[sdcfia]

As the great observer George Carlin said, "It's a Big Club, and you ain't in it." Been that way for millennia.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Little interesting reading for deducer
https://climatechangedispatch.com/massive-volcano-emissions-warming/

 

[somehiker]

You mean this one?:

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”

― George Orwell, 1984

That was the bullet we thought we had dodged back when the ball dropped in Times Square on Dec 31/1984.

 

[somehiker]

Latest map....https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/6382/#

 

[azdave35]

Latest map....https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/6382/#

the news said it isnt getting any bigger..just burning inward now