Not clouds

[PotBelly Jim]

I'm not sure how the data you're looking at states anything else than that the Colorado River is producing less and less water every year.

Climate change does play a big role because the water that supplies the Colorado River comes from the snowcaps of the Rocky Mountains which are growing thinner every year.

This forced seven states to sign the Drought Contingency Plan:

Drought Contingency Plan

Yes, I saw that. Water availability is something near and dear to my heart, as an AZ land-owner who can no longer reach an aquifer with a well. My brother is in the same situation. I agree that short term climate fluctuations impact the cubic feet of water on the Colorado. The last few years, rainfall and snow have increased to levels I haven't seen in my lifetime. Unfortunately due to water demand, it's far from enough to sustain human demand.

 

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[azdave35]

Yes, I saw that. Water availability is something near and dear to my heart, as an AZ land-owner who can no longer reach an aquifer with a well. My brother is in the same situation. I agree that short term climate fluctuations impact the cubic feet of water on the Colorado. The last few years, rainfall and snow have increased to levels I haven't seen in my lifetime. Unfortunately due to water demand, it's far from enough to sustain human demand.

overpopulation is definitely the biggest problem i see...everyone is always griping about global warming....all i see is thousands of people fleeing the colder climates to come to az...dont sound like they are worried about global warming

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Lol...I did the opposite...I fled AZ for more temperate climes...will never sell my place there or cut ties with the state, tho...it's still home to me.

 

[azdave35]

Lol...I did the opposite...I fled AZ for more temperate climes...will never sell my place there or cut ties with the state, tho...it's still home to me.

az has its faults but overall its a great place to live

 

[cyzak]

First of all you should know I have a Master's Degree in Environmental Science and a Minor in Forest Management.

When you have 700-1000 trees to an acre where only 70-100 can be supported you have a SERIOUS problem. Whether it is resource competition or disease, you set up a situation where bad things are going to happen. The bark beetle epidemic isn't from climate change. It is from the forests being overstocked and being weakened from resource competition. Same goes for forest fires. They ARE NOT getting worse because of climate change. They are getting worse from overstocked trees creating ladder fuels.

An overstocked forest uses more water leaving less for other species line the loach minnow and others that depend on an aquatic environment. And this snowballs on down the line.

The reason I have such an intense dislike for eco freaks is the fact that they have to lie, misrepresent the truth, and have to tug on people's heart strings to advance their agenda. If they told people the truth, people would tell them to take a flying leap of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon.

Well said you are right on topic with what you are writing here.

 

[cyzak]

Well, how do you go out and tell nature to stop growing 700-1000 trees an acre? Nature has been doing that for millions of years- if it was truly and inherently a problem, nature would have evolved away from that.

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I talk about the self-justifying downsizing going on in African game reserves.

And yes, climate change is causing more and more forest fires because there's much less rainfall/snowfall except for brief torrential periods. A lot more drought. For example, the Colorado river has shrunk for 14 straight years. That's completely unheard of.

The reason the Colorado river is shirking is from the front range Denver their diverting more and more water out of the Colorado river to the front range here on the western slope we are in a battle for are farming lively hood with the water they are stealing..

 

[deducer]

The reason the Colorado river is shirking is from the front range Denver their diverting more and more water out of the Colorado river to the front range here on the western slope we are in a battle for are farming lively hood with the water they are stealing..

It is shrinking right at the source, not from somewhere downriver.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

It is shrinking right at the source, not from somewhere downriver.

Deducer, please understand that this is a huge hydraulic system that is much more complicated that a bunch of kids and hippies screaming "Climate Change!" The depletion of the aquifers has a direct and dramatic impact on how much water remains on the surface after rainfall and snow. The recent droughts have exacerbated the problem but is not the cause. You are blaming a symptom rather than the disease.

Earlier you noted how many scientists have signed on to the latest and greatest climate change letter or finding. This is typical. In order for such a statement to be scientifically relevant, we would need the rest of the equation. My next question would be "How many scientists didn't sign it?" At least then, we would have an equation with a solution. This whole debate is political rather than scientific. Unfortunately, scientists have politics too.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

The reason the Colorado river is shirking is from the front range Denver their diverting more and more water out of the Colorado river to the front range here on the western slope we are in a battle for are farming lively hood with the water they are stealing..

Exactly. The problem is demand. Climate fluctuation, sometimes dramatically referred to as Global Warming, or when that doesn't work, Climate Change, only exacerbates the problem. Unfortunately, such political maneuvering is never going to address the issue and will leave you "high and dry", my friend. Hopefully the local governments can respond quick enough to manage the crisis.

 

[deducer]

overpopulation is definitely the biggest problem i see...everyone is always griping about global warming....all i see is thousands of people fleeing the colder climates to come to az...dont sound like they are worried about global warming

Thousands of bleeding heart liberal snowbirds like me crashing your backyard. Sorry about that, Dave.

 

[deducer]

Deducer, please understand that this is a huge hydraulic system that is much more complicated that a bunch of kids and hippies screaming "Climate Change!" The depletion of the aquifers has a direct and dramatic impact on how much water remains on the surface after rainfall and snow. The recent droughts have exacerbated the problem but is not the cause. You are blaming a symptom rather than the disease.

Earlier you noted how many scientists have signed on to the latest and greatest climate change letter or finding. This is typical. In order for such a statement to be scientifically relevant, we would need the rest of the equation. My next question would be "How many scientists didn't sign it?" At least then, we would have an equation with a solution. This whole debate is political rather than scientific. Unfortunately, scientists have politics too.

Jim, climate change is not a political, scientific, or philosophical issue. It's something that's become very real.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Jim, climate change is not a political, scientific, or philosophical issue. It's something that's become very real.

Climate change has been with us for 4 billion years. Of course it's real. The question is whether or not we have the modeling described to a degree with which we can make accurate predictions. It appears we do not. They're working on it. Human technological prowess will most likely eventually figure out what is happening and how to address it.

 

[azdave35]

Thousands of bleeding heart liberal snowbirds like me crashing your backyard. Sorry about that, Dave.

there goes the neighborhood

 

[Mad Machinist]

Ok the whole man made climate change because of CO2 is nothing more than a myth created by a bunch of people who get their rocks off through fear, power, and control.

Water vapor is far, far more potent than CO2. https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html

Now add into that little bit from NASA, this little gem right here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_condensation_nuclei

Now let's take a look at the PM 10, PM 5 ,and PM 2.5 rules concerning particulate matter or the lack there of. So without condensation nuclei, we end up with a super saturated atmosphere from humidity. Ever wonder why we have to seed clouds to make it rain anymore?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_physics#Supersaturation

So when an atmosphere is supersaturated, it retains a hell of alot of heat. Far, far more than CO2. From what I have read it accounts for 60-70% of "global warming".

Now when you finally introduce condesation nuclei into a super saturated atmosphere, you get and explosion of sorts leading to torrential downpours, flooding, blizzards, etc.

On to tornado formation to dispel another myth of the AGW crowd. In order for a tornado to form you need a collision between a warm moist front AND an unusually cold dry air mass. This sets up wind shear that starts the rotation of the tornado. The colder the day air mass the more violent the tornado. This is why there are very very few tornados in the Tropics.

I guess in essence you could say man made climate change does exist, but it is NOT from CO2. It is from the oh so stupid people that removed particulate matter from the atmosphere in the name of human health.

 

[azdave35]

Ok the whole man made climate change because of CO2 is nothing more than a myth created by a bunch of people who get their rocks off through fear, power, and control.

Water vapor is far, far more potent than CO2. https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html

Now add into that little bit from NASA, this little gem right here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_condensation_nuclei

Now let's take a look at the PM 10, PM 5 ,and PM 2.5 rules concerning particulate matter or the lack there of. So without condensation nuclei, we end up with a super saturated atmosphere from humidity. Ever wonder why we have to seed clouds to make it rain anymore?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_physics#Supersaturation

So when an atmosphere is supersaturated, it retains a hell of alot of heat. Far, far more than CO2. From what I have read it accounts for 60-70% of "global warming".

Now when you finally introduce condesation nuclei into a super saturated atmosphere, you get and explosion of sorts leading to torrential downpours, flooding, blizzards, etc.

On to tornado formation to dispel another myth of the AGW crowd. In order for a tornado to form you need a collision between a warm moist front AND an unusually cold dry air mass. This sets up wind shear that starts the rotation of the tornado. The colder the day air mass the more violent the tornado. This is why there are very very few tornados in the Tropics.

I guess in essence you could say man made climate change does exist, but it is NOT from CO2. It is from the oh so stupid people that removed particulate matter from the atmosphere in the name of human health.

typical fear tactics... ..if we would all turn off our tv's..cell phones and internet..and stop reading that good for nothing newspaper we would all live happier..healthier lives...my two cents on that

 

[Mad Machinist]

Now back to the forest for deducer who has pretty much proven he has no understanding of nature here a few posts back.

Mother Nature will flood the world with "babies" sontag a few survive. Most die from disease, predation, resource competition, fire, and a bunch of other things I can't think of right now.

So an acre will get flooded with 700-1000 trees in Hope's that a few will survive to maturity to start the process over again. Most small trees tend to die of due to resource completion for things like sunlight and water. The fee lucky ones survive. However, when a forest get overstocked to the point of building ladder fuels then it's only a matter of time before it burns. Ladder fuels are small trees that have not developed any fire resistance yet so they burn allowing the flames to climb up into the canopy. Once in the canopy, the wind takes over and everything burns. The thing about a fire of this intensity everyone needs to understand is the fact that a soil has a small quantity of natural oils in it. So when it burns it verifies the soil basically turning into a sheet of glass that no plant can penetrate to take root. Over hundreds of years this citified soil breaks down but in the mean time no water can get through that layer either so you have no bank storage of water in stream banks for later use. All the water just runs off and creates alot of havoc downstream.

Another thing about major fires is the ash that is produced. It is usually alkaline in nature and has a great effect on the local flora and fauna. It also tends to be beaten onto fine particles that settle on the river bottoms plugging up the stream best preventing water from seeping through into the ground for other plants to use. This is called streambed armoring and it does greatly affect those who need a loose streambed to reproduce.

So as you all can see it isn't global warming that is making things worse. It's a small group of very loud eco freaks who think they know everything when they actually no nothing nor do they care about the consequences of their actions. They just blame it all on climate change.

 

[cyzak]

It is shrinking right at the source, not from somewhere downriver.

That is the source you do not understand they are pulling water out of the lakes that start the head waters of the Colorado river.They are putting pipe lines in and sucking the water back over to the other side out of those lakes that start the head waters.

 

[dredgernaut]

there is a water pipe pulling water from grand lake in granby Colorado and feeding it to the reservoirs in estes park , Loveland, fort Collins, Longmont and so on in Colorado. not to mention the irrigation rights along the way. the pipe is large enough to drive an atv through for inspections. I lived in estes park for 16 years. sooo I kind of know what I am talking about. That's taking water from the headwaters of the Colorado river and sending it east.. the Colorado flows southwest.....

 

[somehiker]

typical fear tactics... ..if we would all turn off our tv's..cell phones and internet..and stop reading that good for nothing newspaper we would all live happier..healthier lives...my two cents on that

It's "Reefer Madness" plus "Duck and Cover" on steroids.
Only there's more money in it.....for billionaires at least.

 

[deducer]

Climate change has been with us for 4 billion years. Of course it's real. The question is whether or not we have the modeling described to a degree with which we can make accurate predictions. It appears we do not. They're working on it. Human technological prowess will most likely eventually figure out what is happening and how to address it.

The meaning of "Climate Change" and what it implies, is the human impact on the modern climate and environment of the planet that has existed since the beginning of the Cenozoic era, after the mass extinction event dramatically overhauled and transformed life on this planet into what it is today.

There is no need for modeling- as I mentioned, scientists have been and continue to drill through deep ice in Antarctica, extracting and analyzing ice cores going back 800,000 years and the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that exists today is well outside the natural cycling between glacial (ice ages) and interglacial periods. It is not only well outside of the normal range, but the buildup is a dramatic spike, as compared to the slow build up reflected in the cycling towards an interglacial period.

More info: Deep Ice tells long climate story