New Yorkers now being given $500 rewards if they report gun owners to law enforcement

So when the patriot act is challenged and stands up as being constitutional do you still believe that it is not?

If the system of "checks and balances" works, it would be struck down. Privacy rights violations, illegal search and seizure, the removal of protections already in law . . . so if it were not struck down I would actually see that as proof that the checks and balances had been done away with - no longer exist. Again, anyone willing to exchange liberty for freedom is worthy of neither.

And your prob right on my opinion of gitmo. I'm not likely to be agreeing with you and the folks at the ACLU. I say do whatever you need to do to get the info we need. And keep them as long as you feel you need to keep them.

I agree with getting the info we need, but not a minute longer.

As for the ACLU - they've screwed the public long enough. You might as well be talking about the imbeciles at the Southern Poverty Law Center.
 

If the system of "checks and balances" works, it would be struck down. Privacy rights violations, illegal search and seizure, the removal of protections already in law . . . so if it were not struck down I would actually see that as proof that the checks and balances had been done away with - no longer exist. Again, anyone willing to exchange liberty for freedom is worthy of neither.

I agree with getting the info we need, but not a minute longer.

As for the ACLU - they've screwed the public long enough. You might as well be talking about the imbeciles at the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Well the patriot has stood up to all challenges. And it has been challenged A LOT.

What is more likely -

1 that you personally might not now the intricacies of the act and the body of constitutional law that pertains to the act. And the fact that the way it is written and carried out is in fact
 

Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Freedom from unreasonable searches: The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
Amendment VI: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. Right to a speedy and public trial: The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Freedom of association: To assist terror investigation, the government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity.
Amendment VI: ... to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. Right to legal representation: The government may monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
Amendment I: Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech ... Freedom of speech: The government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
Amendment VI: ... to be confronted with the witnesses against him ... Right to liberty: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. US citizens (labeled "unlawful combatants") have been held incommunicado and refused attorneys.

[TD="width: 50%"][SIZE=+1] Lets compare the Constitution to the Patriot Act


US Constitution (Bill of Rights)[/SIZE][/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"][SIZE=+1]


US Patriot Act[/SIZE][/TD]
Constitutional Source: Cornell Law School
Patriot Act Source: The Associated Press, Knight-Ridder Newspapers
Full Patriot Act Text: US Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services

US Constitution vs. The Patriot Act
 

Well the patriot has stood up to all challenges. And it has been challenged A LOT.

What is more likely -

1 that you personally might not now the intricacies of the act and the body of constitutional law that pertains to the act. And the fact that the way it is written and carried out is in fact


So it has stood up to ALL challanges ???

The Patriot Act is anything but patrotic, it is one the biggest attacks on the US Constitution's Bill of Rights ever made.....


updated 9/27/2007 8:40:06 AM ET 2007-09-27T12:40:06



PORTLAND, Ore. — Two provisions of the USA Patriot Act are unconstitutional because they allow search warrants to be issued without a showing of probable cause, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.

U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as amended by the Patriot Act, "now permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment."

Portland attorney Brandon Mayfield sought the ruling in a lawsuit against the federal government after he was mistakenly linked by the FBI to the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people in 2004.

The federal government apologized and settled part of the lawsuit for $2 million after admitting a fingerprint was misread. But as part of the settlement, Mayfield retained the right to challenge parts of the Patriot Act, which greatly expanded the authority of law enforcers to investigate suspected acts of terrorism.

Mayfield claimed that secret searches of his house and office under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act violated the Fourth Amendment's guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure. Aiken agreed with Mayfield, repeatedly criticizing the government.

"For over 200 years, this Nation has adhered to the rule of law — with unparalleled success. A shift to a Nation based on extra-constitutional authority is prohibited, as well as ill-advised," she wrote.

By asking her to dismiss Mayfield's lawsuit, the judge said, the U.S. attorney general's office was "asking this court to, in essence, amend the Bill of Rights, by giving it an interpretation that would deprive it of any real meaning. This court declines to do so."





Elden Rosenthal, an attorney for Mayfield, issued a statement on his behalf praising the judge, saying she "has upheld both the tradition of judicial independence, and our nation's most cherished principle of the right to be secure in one's own home."

Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr said the agency was reviewing the decision, and he declined to comment further.

Received apology from FBI
Mayfield, a Muslim convert, was taken into custody on May 6, 2004, because of a fingerprint found on a detonator at the scene of the Madrid bombing. The FBI said the print matched Mayfield's. He was released about two weeks later, and the FBI admitted it had erred in saying the fingerprints were his and later apologized to him.

Before his arrest, the FBI put Mayfield under 24-hour surveillance, listened to his phone calls and surreptitiously searched his home and law office.

The Mayfield case has been an embarrassment for the federal government. Last year, the Justice Department's internal watchdog faulted the FBI for sloppy work in mistakenly linking Mayfield to the Madrid bombings. That report said federal prosecutors and FBI agents had made inaccurate and ambiguous statements to a federal judge to get arrest and criminal search warrants against Mayfield.


Part of Patriot Act ruled unconstitutional - US news - Security | NBC News
 

And your certainly allowed your opinion because of this great country we live in. Hopefully you believe when the Supreme Court rules something constitutional you don't believe otherwise? Y say you believe in constitutional law correct?
 

Hi all! seems like it's a little heated here lol. I gonna add some kerosene...So do you all know why Bin Ladin hated the US? I'd probably done the same thing he did or along the same lines actually. The main reason he hated us is because he was a ring leader trained by our special forces to over throw the Afgan govt. then when the Russians said they were stepping in wether we were there or not (because they were in alliance with Afgan govt.) We turned our tails and ran and left former ally Bin Laden with his butt swinging in the wind...so I don't really blame him I would have been mad too. If we back someone or their group then pull out when it gets a little hairy...actually I think they even used chemical weapons on them if my memory serves me right then buried them in mass graves. Pulling out probably adverted a third WW but if your for freedom you gotta draw a line somewhere and do what's necessary. At the very least we should have loaded them up and brought them here w/political asylum. If we're gonna stick our noses in where it doesn't belong in the first place we should at least do the honorable thing which we didn't. JMHO
 

And your certainly allowed your opinion because of this great country we live in. Hopefully you believe when the Supreme Court rules something constitutional you don't believe otherwise? Y say you believe in constitutional law correct?

Well the patriot has stood up to all challenges. And it has been challenged A LOT.

No comment on your statement it has stood all challenges, when in fact it has not...?


So tell me, if a Supreme Court ruled slavery is okay, or the only religion allowed in America is Christian or there is no more free speech would you believe and except it?
 

When the police are minutes away, I would rather measure my response time in feet per second. JMHO
 

in the UK pistols were banned after the massacre of the kiddies but it didnt work .
as the bad guys still get hold of illegal weapons and still kill each other .2 cops were shot dead by a nut some months back .
almost every month theres a gun crime ...guns smuggled in are used


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre
 

Last edited:
in the UK pistols were banned after the massacre of the kiddies but it didnt work .
as the bad guys still get hold of illegal weapons and still kill each other .2 cops were shot dead by a nut some months back .
almost every month theres a gun crime ...guns smuggled in are used

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

How do you know "it didnt work"? How many crimes were prevented because of the ban? Using your idea of what works and what doesn't obviously you would consider no law to work - correct?
 

personaly, i think if the gov is willing to pay for the snitchs to turn in people with guns, we should give them the addres to each politition in the state, and ever fricking gunf hater in that state, i am all for guns, if the gov wants to take all the guns away, they going to get done in, just like the nazis in ww2, in russia, currently in korea, wtf is wrong with you if you think taking a gun out of a good man or womens and wil protect them selves from assult, i read a article that a women in texas got her purse snatched from her, she shot him 6 time, she was realesed the following monday, that is what a american does, not a anti gun person. some of these people are being just flat out dumnasses, it doesnt matter if you are killed with a gun, or a bomb, or a fricking knive, some guy could just walk up to ppeople and start snaping necks if he flet like it, oh, what are we ever going to do??? take of every mans hands? just my 2 cents
 

How do you know "it didnt work"? How many crimes were prevented because of the ban? Using your idea of what works and what doesn't obviously you would consider no law to work - correct?

How many crimes were prevented? You can actually measure that? Tell me the exact number and provide documented proof - otherwise it is mere pie in the sky daydreaming.
 

How many crimes were prevented? You can actually measure that? Tell me the exact number and provide documented proof - otherwise it is mere pie in the sky daydreaming.

Exactly - you just made my point. You can't. So then therefore how do you know that it is NOT successful. Thank you.
 

Exactly - you just made my point. You can't. So then therefore how do you know that it is NOT successful. Thank you.

Yes, but you CAN prove where gun control didn't work. You can count the bodies of the people who have died because they were unarmed.
 

Why do you think that would "prove" anything? What would you be comparing it to. You need to none up a bit on the scientific process and basic statistics if you want use words like "prove". Do you know what is the process to statistically prove something?
 

You go back on ignore.

You CAN COUNT those who die because of being unarmed. You CAN NOT count those who do not die because of a law, you can only "guess-timate". That is definitely NOT SCIENTIFIC.
 

You go back on ignore.

You CAN COUNT those who die because of being unarmed. You CAN NOT count those who do not die because of a law, you can only "guess-timate". That is definitely NOT SCIENTIFIC.

I'm flattered. Please do ignore. It certainly will be easier on you I believe. Again, you can express any opinion you want. Can be crazy as crazy can be. Thats certainly your Right. But start claiming "facts" or "proof" etc and that's a whole different ball game. I'm sure you are used to talking to people who are easily manipulated and don't know how to think critically but you have a bit of a different audience here. Guys like crispin and I know better. Frankly I would encourage you and others to become more knowledgable in logic and critical thinking - it's a wonderful tool. Given some of the stuff being bantered around here its obvious that some folks are just too easily manipulated to the written word. Best.
 

DYK...? In times of WAR... Martial Law can be declared, and ALL the US Constitution can be suspended? Check it out!
 

Then again, you MAY wanna check out NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2012...
 

This $500 reward is all in the way you look at it. You can put on your rose colored glasses, and only murderers and armed robbers will be turned in. Or you can put on your prescription glasses, and any dope head will turn in his own mother for the reward.
 

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