New site?...with different clue versions?

[azdave35]

Dave uses the term sand stone but there more to Breccia sand stone cooked/Baked depending on the heat become hard and nearly impossible to breech even with diamond bits.

babymick1. Don’t know if I spelled breccia right.

you better do some research on breccia mick

 

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[Oroblanco]

I would say they did it for nothing. Advertising in Desert High ways.

As to the Oak Island donated New War Room by The Irving Group.

Babymick1

I will repeat. The red flags are flying, and if you end up empty handed, don't try to blame it on me for not trying to talk you out of it. There is good reason to be highly skeptical of these Peralta Stone Maps period full stop.

 

[Al D]

I will repeat. The red flags are flying, and if you end up empty handed, don't try to blame it on me for not trying to talk you out of it. There is good reason to be highly skeptical of these Peralta Stone Maps period full stop.

You assume way too much Roy, just because we see flaws with DAI report, it does not mean that we believe the stones to be authentic treasure maps, at least some of us.

 

[wrmickel1]

Nothings Free Oro

Just As the Family was trying to get a TV show.

Janie was the one around her dad. She never said her dad made them, Now what he did do was spend his own money to go back Time after Time to find the treasure he believed was there. Common Sense thinking can go a lot further then nonsense the family puts out. So tell me who was trying to find treasure and which ones were looking for fame.

babymick1

 

[Oroblanco]

Nothings Free Oro

Just As the Family was trying to get a TV show.

Janie was the one around her dad. She never said her dad made them, Now what he did do was spend his own money to go back Time after Time to find the treasure he believed was there. Common Sense thinking can go a lot further then nonsense the family puts out. So tell me who was trying to find treasure and which ones were looking for fame.

babymick1

Mick exactly how do you know whether Travis was returning "time after time" to "search for the treasure"? You don't know, you were not with him and neither was I. He might have been hunting the treasure(s) or the LDM or Waggoner's ledge or chasing the rare Pink Eyed Blue Butterflies, we can not know for sure.

 

[wrmickel1]

I will repeat. The red flags are flying, and if you end up empty handed, don't try to blame it on me for not trying to talk you out of it. There is good reason to be highly skeptical of these Peralta Stone Maps period full stop.

No red flags flying yet. No one is blaming you Oro. They may even buy your book. Now who’s looking for Fame.

its as easy as that.

babymick1 I supposed after you become number one on the best seller chart. There will be know putting up with you.
TALK TO THE HAND NOT THE FACE. Ieee

 

[azdave35]

Dave uses the term sand stone but there more to Breccia sand stone cooked/Baked depending on the heat become hard and nearly impossible to breech even with diamond bits.

babymick1. Don’t know if I spelled breccia right.

this is breccia mick..we cut alot of it

 

[azdave35]

Nothings Free Oro

Just As the Family was trying to get a TV show.

Janie was the one around her dad. She never said her dad made them, Now what he did do was spend his own money to go back Time after Time to find the treasure he believed was there. Common Sense thinking can go a lot further then nonsense the family puts out. So tell me who was trying to find treasure and which ones were looking for fame.

babymick1

did you talk to janie?

 

[arcana-exploration]

Wayne so in the end when most of the information on the stones (most) proves to be significant and leads to an Alpha site,(which it does) (to be honest a shock) and therefor the map value it legit, does that make the Stones authentic? Authentic in what way? No, and yes. No who did them? No! where did they get the information? Yes the info on them is valid!! So the question is would the info on the stones when foum\nd to valid, validate the stones. It all depends on what you are trying to prove. If I was to make up stones tomorrow, from some old Jesuit map that has never been seen would the stones be authentic, valid, or would not care about what was on them?

 

[arcana-exploration]

Sorry I was trying to tag to Wayne.

 

[Al D]

Wayne so in the end when most of the information on the stones (most) proves to be significant and leads to an Alpha site,(which it does) (to be honest a shock) and therefor the map value it legit, does that make the Stones authentic? Authentic in what way? No, and yes. No who did them? No! where did they get the information? Yes the info on them is valid!! So the question is would the info on the stones when foum\nd to valid, validate the stones. It all depends on what you are trying to prove. If I was to make up stones tomorrow, from some old Jesuit map that has never been seen would the stones be authentic, valid, or would not care about what was on them?

When are you going to back up your wild claims with some proof?

 

[gollum]

Nothings Free Oro

Just As the Family was trying to get a TV show.

Janie was the one around her dad. She never said her dad made them, Now what he did do was spend his own money to go back Time after Time to find the treasure he believed was there. Common Sense thinking can go a lot further then nonsense the family puts out. So tell me who was trying to find treasure and which ones were looking for fame.

babymick1

Mick,

Now let me come from the other side of this:

How do you know WHAT Janie Tumlinson did or didn't say? Janie NEVER said her dad did not CARVE the Stone Maps. She only said that her dad was never in any way part of any hoax. I KNOW what she said, because she said it to me!

While its true that Travis did come to the Superstitions many times. You (and many other people) ASS-U-ME it was to try and solve the Stone Maps. What if his home was a Stone Artifact Factory? What if all those trips into the Superstitions were to plant fake artifacts (Stone Crosses, Latin Heart), so that they could be found and increase the value of his stone maps?

Mike

 

[somehiker]

Wayne so in the end when most of the information on the stones (most) proves to be significant and leads to an Alpha site,(which it does) (to be honest a shock) and therefor the map value it legit, does that make the Stones authentic? Authentic in what way? No, and yes. No who did them? No! where did they get the information? Yes the info on them is valid!! So the question is would the info on the stones when foum\nd to valid, validate the stones. It all depends on what you are trying to prove. If I was to make up stones tomorrow, from some old Jesuit map that has never been seen would the stones be authentic, valid, or would not care about what was on them?

What do you mean by "Alpha site" ?
Like I said before, you would be far better off, were you to actually find what most would agree was the LDM or a cache of valuable treasure, to choose some other map to credit for your discovery. Personally, I'd pick one that has no possible connection to the whole Tumlinson Fakes Fiasco . The "Frank Fish Map" would be a good one for example, which also has an interesting history .

 

[deducer]

Exactly, Dave. It seems some here think the Flagg Foundation supposedly paid a bunch of hack scientists just so they could get rid of the stones!!!...apparently, the people at the Flagg Foundation are so dense that they didn't realize all they had to do was throw em in a dumpster and save the consulting fees

We could believe that, or perhaps, that the entire premise of the "bought and paid for" Desert Archaeology analysis is faulty?

It is possible, after all, that the Desert Archaeology crew actually tried to make an accurate analysis of the stones.

As others have said, DAI was not paid, but received a big shot in the arm, publicity-wise, vis-a-vis the AH magazine which was and still is a publication with a respectable readership.

It would have been extremely hard for DAI to gain respectability if they were to, in their first act of publicity, declare some "treasure maps" to be anything but outright fraudulent.

So, yes, it would be easy to see how they could be prejudiced right off the bat.

 

[deducer]

While its true that Travis did come to the Superstitions many times. You (and many other people) ASS-U-ME it was to try and solve the Stone Maps. What if his home was a Stone Artifact Factory? What if all those trips into the Superstitions were to plant fake artifacts (Stone Crosses, Latin Heart), so that they could be found and increase the value of his stone maps?

Mike

Mike,

Don't forget the cursum perficio the one big monkey wrench that those believing the Stone Maps to be fraudulent, conveniently never address.

Travis would have had to start with this fabrication at an early age and have had to find a way to get to the Superstitions without the benefit of driving a car, much less owning one, and then to plant two parchments in two similar and very hard to find, antique books which would be found by two different men with whom he never had any contact. One of them found in a cave far from Queen Creek.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

As others have said, DAI was not paid, but received a big shot in the arm, publicity-wise, vis-a-vis the AH magazine which was and still is a publication with a respectable readership.

It would have been extremely hard for DAI to gain respectability if they were to, in their first act of publicity, declare some "treasure maps" to be anything but outright fraudulent.

So, yes, it would be easy to see how they could be prejudiced right off the bat.

Deducer, DAI had no need of any publicity surrounding those silly stones. And I’m surprised you think it was somehow their “first” publicity? Wow.

Let’s consider that this company is in business to facilitate compliance with archaeological regulations. They’ve been around for a long time. They could care less about these stones.

In this thread, the Flagg Foundation has been accused of fixing the outcome of the article which would somehow justify their getting rid of the stones. As if they ever needed to do that. And, that a board member facilitated this by using his contacts at, and involving a member of Arizona Highways magazine, to set it up. And that DAI went along with it.

Why have these respectable and innocent private companies, organizations, and magazine been slandered in this forum? So some people can justify their belief in a fairy tale, or look like a big shot with some “inside info” as to the malfeasance of the Flagg Foundation, AZ Highways, DAI, and God knows who else.

And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks dutch hunters are nuts. Perhaps they are right.

I wondered just how far this would go. How this tale of conspiracy would unfold. All I can say is I’m impressed at how far people will go, who they will accuse, over nothing more than folk tales that nobody can prove one way or another. It makes no sense to me.

 

[sdcfia]

Deducer, DAI had no need of any publicity surrounding those silly stones. And I’m surprised you think it was somehow their “first” publicity? Wow.

Let’s consider that this company is in business to facilitate compliance with archaeological regulations. They’ve been around for a long time. They could care less about these stones.

In this thread, the Flagg Foundation has been accused of fixing the outcome of the article which would somehow justify their getting rid of the stones. As if they ever needed to do that. And, that a board member facilitated this by using his contacts at, and involving a member of Arizona Highways magazine, to set it up. And that DAI went along with it.

Why have these respectable and innocent private companies, organizations, and magazine been slandered in this forum? So some people can justify their belief in a fairy tale, or look like a big shot with some “inside info” as to the malfeasance of the Flagg Foundation, AZ Highways, DAI, and God knows who else.

And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks dutch hunters are nuts. Perhaps they are right.

I wondered just how far this would go. How this tale of conspiracy would unfold. All I can say is I’m impressed at how far people will go, who they will accuse, over nothing more than folk tales that nobody can prove one way or another. It makes no sense to me.

It's tough when our strongly held beliefs are strongly challenged by evidence that we can't deny. Do we jump ship or do we go down with the leaking tub?

" ... cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort experienced by a person who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. This discomfort is triggered by a situation in which a person's belief clashes with new evidence perceived by the person. ..."

 

[deducer]

Deducer, DAI had no need of any publicity surrounding those silly stones. And I’m surprised you think it was somehow their “first” publicity? Wow.

Let’s consider that this company is in business to facilitate compliance with archaeological regulations. They’ve been around for a long time. They could care less about these stones.

In this thread, the Flagg Foundation has been accused of fixing the outcome of the article which would somehow justify their getting rid of the stones. As if they ever needed to do that. And, that a board member facilitated this by using his contacts at, and involving a member of Arizona Highways magazine, to set it up. And that DAI went along with it.

Why have these respectable and innocent private companies, organizations, and magazine been slandered in this forum? So some people can justify their belief in a fairy tale, or look like a big shot with some “inside info” as to the malfeasance of the Flagg Foundation, AZ Highways, DAI, and God knows who else.

And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks dutch hunters are nuts. Perhaps they are right.

I wondered just how far this would go. How this tale of conspiracy would unfold. All I can say is I’m impressed at how far people will go, who they will accuse, over nothing more than folk tales that nobody can prove one way or another. It makes no sense to me.

How was it you were able to dismiss in the other thread, and without reservation I might add, overwhelming evidence presented by thousands of scientists that climate change is real- and of who backed up their claim with solid evidence, thorough chemical and physical testings, deriving results ranging from ice core drilling to tree rings, to the spiking acidity of the oceans, but take umbrage when I reject the conclusions of four "scientists" who were proven to have not done any homework, never mind any physical or chemical tests, on the Stone Maps, and forming conclusions all in the space of the two hours that they had the Stone Maps with, one of who examined it with what appears to be a loupe, about a foot away from the stone.

Especially when they were quickly proven wrong on several counts, including on iconography which clearly existed long before the 18th century.

And if I'm not wrong, Wayne (somehiker) has found a match for the type of stone that composes the heart stone, in the Superstitions. There is a picture of that somewhere- I'll see if I can locate it.

If I were a reputable, respectable scientist, I would absolutely not be forming a scientific conclusion in the space of two hours without the benefit of chemical and physical tests and thorough research which they obviously had not done.

I am not sure how you are conflating this with "dutch hunters."

Additionally, DAI wasn't around for a long time at the time they examined the Stone Maps. The organization was founded in 1982, and only established the Tucson office in 1995.

 

[deducer]

It's tough when our strongly held beliefs are strongly challenged by evidence that we can't deny. Do we jump ship or do we go down with the leaking tub?

" ... cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort experienced by a person who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. This discomfort is triggered by a situation in which a person's belief clashes with new evidence perceived by the person. ..."

Exactly what evidence am I denying?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

It's tough when our strongly held beliefs are strongly challenged by evidence that we can't deny. Do we jump ship or do we go down with the leaking tub?

" ... cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort experienced by a person who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. This discomfort is triggered by a situation in which a person's belief clashes with new evidence perceived by the person. ..."

I think the Captain goes down, while calmly lighting his pipe

Everyone else can scramble for the lifeboats.