Is the Lost Dutchman Mine the Sombrero Mine? Some compelling evidence

[markmar]

markmar,
I have no room to post pics on this thread so will do this on my additional thread. You can verify this on google.
The 'joy' for me is trying to make the clues fit. I am not a prospector/treasure hunter, I like to find Spanish/Mexican treasure maps in Az. and try and 'figure them out'. I would not hike into these mountains looking for this mine, thousands with way more knowledge than me have done this for 100 years. I wanted to find the Sombrero Mine
as the Mexicans, taught by the Spanish, were 'detailed' with their maps. As I matched these clues to the maps,
I realized 'other' clues were here. When I followed the instructions by the Indian boy about the Horse Head, not only about the head description but the 200 ft rock jutting South-I was convinced and set about to get there. I could see Dutchman clues match up, S to N flowing canyon, Weavers 'due' South and reached out to experts about this, I was advised 'in the wrong place'.
The 'true' treasure I found is with Google Earth and the ability to see the 'Spanish/Mexican' trail symbols
on these hills and applying this to other treasure sites of theirs and hope it's not in a 'Wilderness".
For Geronimo Head, depending on where the clue teller was standing, the South end of the 'head' is the North end of Malapais Mtn. This North end is the Sombrero butte/hill. The gulch South of Geronimo Head would not fit for a S to N flowing canyon and Weavers is not "due" South. This clue is depending on where the clue teller was standing and how he saw it. Other than the gulch/mine being on the 'East' it fits.
Thanks again markmar

Ancientones
The horse head description by Apache Jack has its meaning. Someone can see the horse head in the skyline from a short way down looking up from the north, and this because the horse head landmark is on a cliff and above has a terrace.
By going further down mountainside to the canyon floor, someone can realize how there is more ground above the horse head till the mountaintop. Many clues tell only the half truth about the region they are referring.
See for yourself in this pic

 

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[JohnWhite]

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Ed T

 

[ancientones]

Ancientones
The horse head description by Apache Jack has its meaning. Someone can see the horse head in the skyline from a short way down looking up from the north, and this because the horse head landmark is on a cliff and above has a terrace.
By going further down mountainside to the canyon floor, someone can realize how there is more ground above the horse head till the mountaintop. Many clues tell only the half truth about the region they are referring.
See for yourself in this pic

markmar
The description of this clue as I recall was you needed to be on the 'West' side of the canyon and needed to face the 'East' skyline to see this-the location I took the pic. I need to go down lower to be where the story teller was, but I will lose 'clarity'. The complete clue, other than the head info(ears, mouth) was the 'face' was on the end of a 200 ft rock
jutting 'South' into the site 'facing the mine'. Additionally, those at the mine, looking at this same 'rock', described it as a 'sphynx', due to how it appeared to them. Before I could post my pics for the clues of this mine at this site, I had to ensure they would match the description AND they would have to fix into the site 'just as described'.

 

[skyhawk1251]

I've noticed that "ancientones" place of interest lies on a line connecting Weavers Needle and Brown's Peak. Above that location the elevation is high enough that both the needle and peak can be easily seen.

"Ancientones" place of interest is indicated by the green placemarker.

 

[Antonio1es]

This is a pic looking at the Ledge, the orange dots are the Mexican foot trail up the ledge, the red dots are the Dutchman Mule trail to the South end of the ledge and tunnel entrance. The blue arrow points to a 'waterfall', water runoff from the funnel shaped pit, and the 'wash'-below the mine(green arrow).
View attachment 2063871
You pass between the cliff wall and this pillar-drop off to the right..

The Dutchman advised 'the vein ran 400 ft down/across the mtn/ledge', and when you round the corner to enter the tunnel, the vein of rose quartz exposed has been pick axed, everywhere.
View attachment 2063884These are pics entering the tunnel, going up the 'tunnel'(if cleared of brush an easy trail for pack mules), and looking back down from ledge top.. This Tunnel is Awesome!
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View attachment 2063887On top of the ledge from the tunnel, there are 2 long rocks. Between them is a grassy area and a bush. Just my opinion, based on the clues and location, I believe this is the spot the Dutchman buried his partner. This is South of the mine.
View attachment 2063892
There are a couple sketch maps of the site drawn by a Mexican miner. This is a google pic coming into Peters canyon on the Mexican miners trail heading North to the site.
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This is looking down into the funnel shaped pit from the South peninsula, after you exit the tunnel. The red spots are the Dutchman trail down and entering from the side. The orange dots are the Mexican miners trail up the ledge on the North side foot trail.
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About 1/2 way up the ledge on the Mexican foot trail you pass this 'face' looking down the canyon.
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Once on the ledge, there are 2 200 ft long peninsulas jutting West into the canyon, between them is the 'funnel shapped pit'. Both peninsula ends 'curve' in at the bottom, forming a funnel.
The trail goes around the pit, down the North peninsula, and at the bottom you enter to the mine from the side. You must go up to go down, and enter from the side.
This pic is from the North peninsula looking back at the South peninsula. The right arrow is where you exit the tunnel on the South peninsula, the next arrow left is a trail marker(Pic to follow).
As you start around the pit on the trail, there are '3 white, square/rectangle shaped rocks' directly above the mine.
There is a small 'camp' hidden inside the 3 rocks, it has been cleared and remnants of a fire pit.
View attachment 2063977
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Trail marker there are several on this trail up here
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This is a pic of the middle of the funnel shaped pit, and the arrow is pointing to a heavy brush area as if a spring..
The next pic is the bottom of the funnel shaped pit where the mine is.
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After you go up the tunnel, around the funnel shaped pit, down the North peninsula, you enter the bottom of the funnel shaped pit from the side. This is where the Mexican foot trail comes up onto the ledge. Facing East I believe
is this Indian woman clue: 'Look for 3 Teepees high up the mountain side'. These could also be the 'spires' mentioned by others.
View attachment 2064040
A Mexican clue advises: 'At the site, there are 3 monuments-a crescent, a rectangle, and a circle'. A monument is a stone on top of a stone. You will see this as you approach the Mexican foot trail onto the ledge coming from the North.
View attachment 2064041
This pic is looking into the bottom of the funnel shaped pit where the mine is, you enter from this side.
The waterfall/cliff are on the right. The red arrow points to an 'arrowhead' shaped rock that has been propped up.
The wall behind it is 'whitish' colored so this rock(clue) would be seen by the Mexican miners coming into the site from the North. 'There is a 'waist high, white square rock with an oblong corner'. The green arrow points to the
mine which is in a 'crack or crevice'(2 soldiers). There is about a 2 to 3 ft gap between the white granite and the 'rose quartz' vein. 'When you exit the mine you will see nothing but air'-its a cliff.
View attachment 2064046
This is an additional pic of the 3 white square/rectangle shaped rocks on the slope above the mine.

When you enter the bottom of the pit from the side, the East end of the crack/crevice is this volcanic vent hole.
I believe this to be the 'Mexican Shrine' for this mine. The rock has been 'worked', there are 'etchings' of various designs and shapes, and the 'Hearts'. The heart is the Mexican treasure symbol and I can see this shape, in various
'ways', everywhere on this 'mural'. Some have the 'jagged crack' going down the middle of the heart and I see this in Spanish/Mexican mine symbol books. My apologies on not being able to zoom in on my pics and if there is an interest in this mural please let me know and I will zoom in and post.
*Note: The Mexican miners would carve a 'Cross' above the mine entrance, NOT directly over it, it would be on either side. I do not have a 'smoking gun' pic of this to post, but its here-Mexican mine requirement. I can see 'maybes' but not clear enough to convince me I have 'this' Cross..
The 2nd pic below is showing 2 arrows pointing to 'images', I have a zoomed in pic of these 2 images.
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This is a ledge 10 to 15 ft under the mine and just East of the waterfall. This was the tailings dump and tailings were
thrown over the side. There are tailings on the 'East' side of the waterfall at the 'base' of the ledge(canyon floor). There are volcanic vent holes on the tailings ledge-the following 2 pics of vent holes are from the tailings ledge. These are directly below the mine.
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This is a pic of the crack/crevice from the waist high white square rock with the oblong corner, notice the pick ax work on the rose quartz vein.
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There are several 'volcanic vents' into the rose quartz vein in the bottom of the crack/crevice.
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I am out of space so this is the last pic, so best for the last.
'There is a square rock not quite blocking the entrance', 'you must be on your belly to enter the mine', and 'you can almost peak into the mine/cave where the dirt has settled'. I also see tailings dirt, a hole in the dirt where it is 'still' settling, and the mine entrance appears to be chipped to form the heart.
View attachment 2064338
This was a known mine before the Dutchman(The Sombrero Mine), and the accurate Mexican miner clues, documentation and maps, fit this location.
The Dutchman found this mine, and his 'story' advises he 'obtained' it from Mexicans miners who were working it. The detailed record keepers the Mexican miners were,
there is not another mine in here that would 'fit' for this time and location. For the Dutchman clues, the five mile circle 'From the Needle' or 'Needle is in the center', was my only 'questionable'
clue of his mines location. At 5 miles the Mexican miners stones/sketch maps fit, and I could see the horse head, 'exactly' as described. Once out here, all his other clues for this site are just as described. I would think you could not find another site anywhere out here, with this many 'detailed' clues, in their 'detailed' locations, and provided by 'different' peoples.
The proof I am advised I would need to provide would not be permitted by the Forest Service, they will verify if any Wilderness laws were broken to obtain it.
I do believe the Lost Dutchman mine can be 'verified' but the experts will need to figure that one out, I did the hard part.
Thank you for viewing my material and I hope this helps for anyone interested in this story.
Good Luck and Stay Safe!

Hello everyone, my name is Antonio and I write from Old Europe, Spain. For as long as I can remember I am really obsessed with this story, thanks for your excellent work and detailed photos.

 

[flyangelz]

Reminds of the saying “one man’s rubbish is another man’s treasure. “.
Treasure shines where there’s muck there’s a buck. All in the minds eye.
The best kept secrets are the treasures found in the mind.
have a wonderful evening. 😀

Do you think a ship lies in salt creek about 15 metres down in the silt?

 

[Doc4261]

markmar,
I would not know about the 1700s, my research is based on the 1846/1847 dated maps, Heart stone and what was happening at this time. I would not see the purpose to mark/update 'old' mines onto their 'current' 1846/1847 maps,
unless they still had 'value'. The stories/clues of this mine from the Indians, 2 soldiers, Jacob Waltz and his partner, and others, were talking about a 'current' rich gold mine. Ore brought out by some has been verified as such. The Sombrero shape was a common landmark used by the Mexican miners to help identify their sites. From the West, facing the Northern end of the Superstitions, you will see 'Geronimo Head' facing the sky, this mountain is just South of Tortilla Flats. On the Top South end of this mtn. is the 'Sombrero' knob/hill. To the 'East' across Peters Canyon is the mine, this shows on 'their' sketch map(s) as well. I will post this on my The Sombrero Mine thread.
Thank you for your post.

If want to find that mine. U need this view to match the map. Have to fold map at a 90 degree angle at the river way to understand it fully. Nor would I disturb it unless ya want green shirts on ya. Back in the day before they re wrote the lines of the wilderness it was fair game. Too bad no one claimed it in the window. It's not the Ldm...

 

[Doc4261]

Hello Flyangelz

I don't know about Klondike, but NP passed away in July 2017. Np was the only man who found Jenkins lost gold source, and he also knew the place DeGrazia paintings were buried along with another set of stone maps.
Who are you who can help mankind and in what way? Why you chosed treasure of Santa Fe when in the SW are many other treasures?

So Markmar, Jenkins lost load is the same as the NP's knob mine I don't think so.. Nor could u prove it. There is a quite a distance between them. One thing I can say, if NP was still around I would of opened him to a lil sum, sum. That he would of appreciated over in NM.
He is probably the only one to be able to validate the Peraltas mining area besides me. If he really understood the big picture. The sphinx of the tale...

 

[ancientones]

If want to find that mine. U need this view to match the map. Have to fold map at a 90 degree angle at the river way to understand it fully. Nor would I disturb it unless ya want green shirts on ya. Back in the day before they re wrote the lines of the wilderness it was fair game. Too bad no one claimed it in the window. It's not the Ldm...

 

[ancientones]

Doc4261,
The material I provided is for the mine in the Peralta Heart Inlay stone-updated to 1847 to show
the 'rich' mine they were working. This is the mine the mine the Indian and others talk about, the
Mexicans came back to work, illegally, that Jacob saw and found his mine on the way to shoot them-depending on what story you follow. I do know its not the mine on the South side of the ravine he went up.
This is what I believe is the Sphynx, the Crecent, Triangle, Circle monuments to the right, the ledge further right.

Another angle from below the ledge. The Horsehead(Indian clue) is to the left. This could also be called a Sphynx.

All the clues are for this site, they are as described, in the location as described. All of them.
The mines on the Heart inlay(the other Heart stones) are here, all of them.
Which are the ones they dropped everything and ran, this I want to know

 

[markmar]

So Markmar, Jenkins lost load is the same as the NP's knob mine I don't think so.. Nor could u prove it. There is a quite a distance between them. One thing I can say, if NP was still around I would of opened him to a lil sum, sum. That he would of appreciated over in NM.
He is probably the only one to be able to validate the Peraltas mining area besides me. If he really understood the big picture. The sphinx of the tale...

I can prove many things that you are only dreaming of. NP didn't know the mine he has found was that which produced the Jenkins ore, but he believed found the LDM.
It's me who says how that mine was that which produced Jenkins ore, because I did my proper research on the subject and I know for certain. The spot fits all the clues of the stories that are floating around.
Stop to brag yourself because you know nothing. Just my opinion.
If you want to make an offer for that mine, I'm the only person todays who knows where it is.

 

[Doc4261]

I can prove many things that you are only dreaming of. NP didn't know the mine he has found was that which produced the Jenkins ore, but he believed found the LDM.
It's me who says how that mine was that which produced Jenkins ore, because I did my proper research on the subject and I know for certain. The spot fits all the clues of the stories that are floating around.
Stop to brag yourself because you know nothing. Just my opinion.
If you want to make an offer for that mine, I'm the only person todays who knows where it

I can prove many things that you are only dreaming of. NP didn't know the mine he has found was that which produced the Jenkins ore, but he believed found the LDM.
It's me who says how that mine was that which produced Jenkins ore, because I did my proper research on the subject and I know for certain. The spot fits all the clues of the stories that are floating around.
Stop to brag yourself because you know nothing. Just my opinion.
If you want to make an offer for that mine, I'm the only person todays who knows where it is.

I cant hike in with my health the way it is, but maybe have to get brought in and take ya up that I don't know where Np's mine is located. Wasn't ready to go down below, but maybe its time. Seeing it's between the 3 mines below where the LDM is.

 

[markmar]

I cant hike in with my health the way it is, but maybe have to get brought in and take ya up that I don't know where Np's mine is located. Wasn't ready to go down below, but maybe its time. Seeing it's between the 3 mines below where the LDM is.

Doc ,it's not worth your time and effort to go where you believe the Jenkins mine is, from your mention.
I will give you a tip in regards to where the mine of Jenkins ore is located. From the mine, someone can see the Weavers Needle whole, but can't see the mountain where the LDM is located.

 

[Doc4261]

Doc ,it's not worth your time and effort to go where you believe the Jenkins mine is, from your mention.
I will give you a tip in regards to where the mine of Jenkins ore is located. From the mine, someone can see the Weavers Needle whole, but can't see the mountain where the LDM is located.can see through miners needle from where the LDM is located.

Doc ,it's not worth your time and effort to go where you believe the Jenkins mine is, from your mention.
I will give you a tip in regards to where the mine of Jenkins ore is located. From the mine, someone can see the Weavers Needle whole, but can't see the mountain where the LDM is located.

Wasn't talking Jenkins mine, was talking bout NP's. There is way to much distance from where Jenkins found the rock to where NP's mine is. No one would of brought it up labarge where Jenkins found it and way too far for it to float that far. It couldn't of come from NPs mine.

 

[Doc4261]

Doc4261,
The material I provided is for the mine in the Peralta Heart Inlay stone-updated to 1847 to show
the 'rich' mine they were working. This is the mine the mine the Indian and others talk about, the
Mexicans came back to work, illegally, that Jacob saw and found his mine on the way to shoot them-depending on what story you follow. I do know its not the mine on the South side of the ravine he went up.
This is what I believe is the Sphynx, the Crecent, Triangle, Circle monuments to the right, the ledge further right.
View attachment 2075608
Another angle from below the ledge. The Horsehead(Indian clue) is to the left. This could also be called a Sphynx.
View attachment 2075609
All the clues are for this site, they are as described, in the location as described. All of them.
The mines on the Heart inlay(the other Heart stones) are here, all of them.
Which are the ones they dropped everything and ran, this I want to know

The heart Inlay has one very distinguishable marker. Only found in one spot.

 

[markmar]

Wasn't talking Jenkins mine, was talking bout NP's. There is way to much distance from where Jenkins found the rock to where NP's mine is. No one would of brought it up labarge where Jenkins found it and way too far for it to float that far. It couldn't of come from NPs mine.

Jenkins never found that ore by himself. It was brought to his wife by an Indian squaw at the Indian school in Phoenix, where his wife was a teacher. The route Jenkins told to Storm was the route the Indian girl told them to follow, but they were unable to understand it. For this Jenkins didn't know exactly where to search when went later in the mountains with Storm and another two persons. The Indian girl took the ore from an arrastra which it's in a canyon below the mine, but knew where the mine was. After Jenkins death, his wife gave all the real info to Storm in exchange for a cut if Storm would been able to find the mine. Where Storm searched and where was his fovorite area it's known to the most Dutch hunters. Despite he had a map and many clues, was not able to find the mine.
NP's mine it's related to Jenkins ore, believe it or not.

 

[ancientones]

Jenkins never found that ore by himself. It was brought to his wife by an Indian squaw at the Indian school in Phoenix, where his wife was a teacher. The route Jenkins told to Storm was the route the Indian girl told them to follow, but they were unable to understand it. For this Jenkins didn't know exactly where to search when went later in the mountains with Storm and another two persons. The Indian girl took the ore from an arrastra which it's in a canyon below the mine, but knew where the mine was. After Jenkins death, his wife gave all the real info to Storm in exchange for a cut if Storm would been able to find the mine. Where Storm searched and where was his fovorite area it's known to the most Dutch hunters. Despite he had a map and many clues, was not able to find the mine.
NP's mine it's related to Jenkins ore, believe it or not.

The heart Inlay has one very distinguishable marker. Only found in one spot.

Doc4261,
This heart stone must be taken in conjunction with the map stones. There may be something for this mark,
but it is also part of the continuation of the landscape lines for the map stone. This was not the original
heart inlay, this was 'updated' for this rich mine.

 

[Steve Bowser]

Hello Ancientones,

This is my first post on TreasureNet.

I know the area you are describing very well and plan to hike there again this coming season.
I've attached a photo showing the area you've described, looking east from the old camp on the east bank of Peters Canyon. The camp has some camp junk, we call it Two Hammer Camp.

I'll check back to see if you've responded to this post and if you're interested I'll send you more information and photos on the area.

Steve

 

[Petra 5]

flyangelz,
I agree 100%. The true story is the Mexican miners who braved coming up here through harsh terrain, Apache, and far from home to mine here. The Sombrero mine was the last one found and was rich enough that a few Mexican miners would take these same risk as well as now being US Territory and no right to be in here.

*I will post my new thread today, 'The Sombrero Mine'. This will provide more history to this mine and why it is here.
Thank you again for your interest and responses.

Did you mean Spain(ish) miners ? On a road trip to Mexico City we saw some light skinned people who we realized were the pure Spanish decendants. They were nothing like the Mexicans or hispanics we see in Texas. We also saw the pure Native American Indigenous Indians from time to time.

Your work needs to be put in a digital book on Amazon that you can keep adding to and give you some money to keep working on your project.

I borrowed a book from a library in Montana that had a geologist walking around with a fisher 2 box out there.

And a mining company did subsurface drilling before calling it quits. There information would be of value to your work if you could find them.

Gold is associated with iron so I look for it and it's derivatives. I also look for fine and ultra fine gold with a microscope (360X), i also look for quartz, ect.

Then their are color indications. As on Google Earth where the darker color rocks interest me more than the white or lighter color formations. Example: to the east of your green arrow and the word mine on the sat photo is a dark brown splotche. I would sample there for shure. Shadows don't count...

To start I pick up a handfull of dirt/sand then look at it and drop it on the ground. Then hold my hand in the sun and look for quartz glitter. No quartz glitter... no gold most of the time, always.

Really appreciate all of your hard work and effort.

 

[Cubfan64]

Hello Ancientones,

This is my first post on TreasureNet.

I know the area you are describing very well and plan to hike there again this coming season.
I've attached a photo showing the area you've described, looking east from the old camp on the east bank of Peters Canyon. The camp has some camp junk, we call it Two Hammer Camp.

I'll check back to see if you've responded to this post and if you're interested I'll send you more information and photos on the area.

SteveView attachment 2103573

Just saying hello Steve and welcome to what can only be described a nuthouse at times . Hope to see you, Kraig, Greg and Roger in November. I hope you're doing well