New site?...with different clue versions?

[somehiker]

actually the mine has been found and nobody died in a death trap

The "pit mine" ?

That one was never "lost" in the first place.
Just another "found it" claim, IMO.

 

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[deducer]

somehiker,....... Everyone should also understand that everyone involved in the stone map analysis came out a winner. AzHiways got a great story for their magazine, DAI got tons of free publicity for their part in the AzHiways article and Flagg unloaded a problem that had been hanging around their neck for 30 years. The only loser was the general public.

Actually I would say the general public won as well.. the Stone Maps almost ended up in a dumpster!

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,....... Everyone should also understand that everyone involved in the stone map analysis came out a winner. AzHiways got a great story for their magazine, DAI got tons of free publicity for their part in the AzHiways article and Flagg unloaded a problem that had been hanging around their neck for 30 years. The only loser was the general public.

Why was the Flagg Foundation chosen as recipient in the first place ?
Judicial decision ?
Why did they accept the donation if they believed them to be fake and thus potentially troublesome ?
I'm surprised the presiding judge didn't order them to be destroyed, rather than surrendered to another entity.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Why was the Flagg Foundation chosen as recipient in the first place ?
Judicial decision ?
Why did they accept the donation if they believed them to be fake and thus potentially troublesome ?
I'm surprised the presiding judge didn't order them to be destroyed, rather than surrendered to another entity.

Somehiker,.....when the stone maps were donated circa 1970 Lee Hammons was both curator of both the AZ Mineral museum and Flagg Foundation. The stones were originally held by the mineral museum which rented Flagg a room in the museum. Upheaval in the museum caused the stones to be held by Flagg as things played out. A lot is left out of the story which would take its own thread to fully understand.

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker,.....when the stone maps were donated circa 1970 Lee Hammons was both curator of both the AZ Mineral museum and Flagg Foundation. The stones were originally held by the mineral museum which rented Flagg a room in the museum. Upheaval in the museum caused the stones to be held by Flagg as things played out. A lot is left out of the story which would take its own thread to fully understand.

I remember and was one of those who took part in the original discussions about the circumstances under which the SMM obtained the stones from Flagg and the AMMM a few years ago. What I would like to see, if anyone has it, is a copy of the judge's written decision whereby the stones were ordered forfeit in the first place . We know it wasn't part of the SEC order to MOEL .

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I remember and was one of those who took part in the original discussions about the circumstances under which the SMM obtained the stones from Flagg and the AMMM a few years ago. What I would like to see, if anyone has it, is a copy of the judge's written decision whereby the stones were ordered forfeit in the first place . We know it wasn't part of the SEC order to MOEL .

Somehiker, ...... There never was a trial or a hearing or any court case concerning the stone maps. That is bs that got started and never corrected. Moels only court hearing had to do only with not filing their annual registration. Nothing at all to do with the stone maps.

Another bs legend is the FBI analysis of the stone maps.

People have believed these lies for so long it has become the accepted version of the stone map history. Even when confronted with concrete evidence some use other lies to try and prove the original lies.


This subject needs its own thread because of all the misconception and lies about the stones.

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker, ...... There never was a trial or a hearing or any court case concerning the stone maps. That is bs that got started and never corrected. Moels only court hearing had to do only with not filing their annual registration. Nothing at all to do with the stone maps.

Another bs legend is the FBI analysis of the stone maps.

People have believed these lies for so long it has become the accepted version of the stone map history. Even when confronted with concrete evidence some use other lies to try and prove the original lies.


This subject needs its own thread because of all the misconception and lies about the stones.

Last sentence of my post....." We know it wasn't part of the SEC order to MOEL . "

And you are saying all this is a lie
A "bs legend" ?

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~gcundiff/genealogy/LostDutchman/peralta/The Bob Corbin Story.pdf

 

[deducer]

Last sentence of my post....." We know it wasn't part of the SEC order to MOEL . "

And you are saying all this is a lie
A "bs legend" ?

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~gcundiff/genealogy/LostDutchman/peralta/The Bob Corbin Story.pdf

Can't get no better than the FBI laboratory.. even today.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Somehiker,...the chain of possession of the original stone maps was never broken or out of the hands of the few people who owned them. Travis Tumlinson to CLARENCE Mitchell to Boyd Cochran to Lee Hammond. The FBI never had any cause or authority to have anything to do with the stone maps and indeed there is no record at the FBI or any person who ever saw them at the FBI. If you have the FBI record, court case and name of agent please post it.

There may have been something else the FBI looked at but it wasnt the stone maps (originals). No one is calling anyone a liar.

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker,...the chain of possession of the original stone maps was never broken or out of the hands of the few people who owned them. Travis Tumlinson to CLARENCE Mitchell to Boyd Cochran to Lee Hammond. The FBI never had any cause or authority to have anything to do with the stone maps and indeed there is no record at the FBI or any person who ever saw them at the FBI. If you have the FBI record, court case and name of agent please post it.

There may have been something else the FBI looked at but it wasnt the stone maps (originals). No one is calling anyone a liar.

Bob would be a better person to ask for any FBI records of what the agent was talking about, don't you think ?
Since it was presumably he who wrote the reply on his wife's letterhead.
Please note my use of a question mark where I choose to use one.
From my earlier post......
"Why was the Flagg Foundation chosen as recipient in the first place ?
Judicial decision ?"
Do you not understand that these are questions I'm asking ?? <<-- note !
I wouldn't be asking if I had copies of the paperwork .

I remember and was one of those who took part in the original discussions about the circumstances under which the SMM obtained the stones from Flagg and the AMMM a few years ago. What I would like to see, if anyone has it, is a copy of the judge's written decision whereby the stones were ordered forfeit in the first place . We know it wasn't part of the SEC order to MOEL .

Judges are sometimes chosen as arbitrators for disputes over legal ownership of property.
Court hearings are not always necessary .
So, why were the stones donated, rather than offered for sale in order that the investors could recoup part of their losses in MOEL ?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Can't get no better than the FBI laboratory.. even today.

Deducer,....
No where in the FBI article does it mention the stone maps or any person who ever owned the stone maps.

The statement of the stone maps being examined and found to be at least 100 years old is word for word from Travis Tumlinsons 1965 book about the stone maps and the Superstition Mountains.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Not that I know anything about the stone maps...but the FBI is not in the business of releasing any investigative information that doesn't result in charges being filed. If they did, they would be the Federal Bureau of Gossip.

If any investigation was conducted by the FBI about the Stone Maps, they are under no obligation to affirm or deny the investigation's existence, and they are prohibited by law from divulging it if there was one.

So coming up with any proof the investigation ever occurred is going to be an impossible task. But, one could simply believe the past AG of AZ when he says there was some type of involvement by the FBI. Or not. To each his own. But, I personally see no reason for him to have made such a thing up, written about it, signed his name to it, and never once changed what he said about it.

 

[deducer]

Deducer,....
No where in the FBI article does it mention the stone maps or any person who ever owned the stone maps.

The statement of the stone maps being examined and found to be at least 100 years old is word for word from Travis Tumlinsons 1965 book about the stone maps and the Superstition Mountains.

Hi Matthew,

In Bob's Corbin letter, in his handwriting, he specifically and directly refers to the Stone Maps.

By Travis Tumlinson's 1965 book, do you mean his unpublished manuscript?

 

[somehiker]

Travis Tumlinson was writing books in 1965 ?
Just goes to show how simple mistakes can make a mess of any story .
I'm sure he meant Clarence Mitchell ,aka author"Travis Marlow".

Interesting that Bob's recollection of when his meeting with the FBI agent having been during the late 1960's is about when Mel Brower had planned to offer the stones for sale to the highest bidder....as of June 22,1968.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Deducer, somehiker, ...... My apology I meant Travis Marlowes 1965 book on the stone maps and Superstition Mountains. Not Travis Tomlinson. In Marlowes book he writes he had the stones tested at a university and received a letter stating the stones were authentic and at least 100 years old.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I think we all knew what you meant, Matthew. I think SH was just pointing out how easy it is for information to get scrambled. We've all done it, at least I know I HAVE.

The interesting thing for me was that article...I had never seen it before...seems to me they are talking about Glen Magill's crew? Have any of you guys heard anything about an investigation into them, or am I mistaking who the article was about?

 

[azdave35]

The "pit mine" ?

That one was never "lost" in the first place.
Just another "found it" claim, IMO.

until somebody comes up with a better i found it...this is the best one with the most facts and historical research......if it was betting time my money would be on it but everyone has a right to their own ideas

 

[somehiker]

Deducer, somehiker, ...... My apology I meant Travis Marlowes 1965 book on the stone maps and Superstition Mountains. Not Travis Tomlinson. In Marlowes book he writes he had the stones tested at a university and received a letter stating the stones were authentic and at least 100 years old.

While that's a pretty rough guesstimate on their part, for the FBI it would put them well within the age where they would fall inside the antiquities act. However, given what I said before about the way that archaeologists respond to talk about treasure hunting and maps etc., it would be no surprise to me if the FBI also chose to handle the case of the stone maps without charges being brought against anyone . Having already been involved in the fraud investigations of 1966, they may have been tipped off about the planned sale of the stones and decided to avoid further work and publicity by applying a bit of pressure on Brower and Cochrane.

 

[Al D]

Deducer, somehiker, ...... My apology I meant Travis Marlowes 1965 book on the stone maps and Superstition Mountains. Not Travis Tomlinson. In Marlowes book he writes he had the stones tested at a university and received a letter stating the stones were authentic and at least 100 years old.

Anything Clarence Mitchell, AKA Travis Marlowe stated or wrote should be taken with enough salt to cause a heart attack

 

[wrmickel1]

Bob would be a better person to ask for any FBI records of what the agent was talking about, don't you think ?
Since it was presumably he who wrote the reply on his wife's letterhead.
Please note my use of a question mark where I choose to use one.
From my earlier post......
"Why was the Flagg Foundation chosen as recipient in the first place ?
Judicial decision ?"
Do you not understand that these are questions I'm asking ?? <<-- note !
I wouldn't be asking if I had copies of the paperwork .



Judges are sometimes chosen as arbitrators for disputes over legal ownership of property.
Court hearings are not always necessary .
So, why were the stones donated, rather than offered for sale in order that the investors could recoup part of their losses in MOEL ?

Because it was a investment, High Risk, They had no recourse to collect there losses.
Your assuming it was fraud, But no intent to fraud investors, it was all about proper paper work done. That’s all
babymick1