New site?...with different clue versions?

[arcana-exploration]

Wayne this is what folks where folks should be focusing their research, the original stones. The second stones mean next to nothing, other than a who done it a mystery. I tell who did the second or third stones, an interloper, who cares? Wayne whoever did the first set, the snailish grey ones may be meaningful, I say could be meaningful. Who cares about TT, really! The important things are who was the first to find the Alpha site, and the first stones if authentic, are a window to who was the first European on-site. We have information that is very early, putting anglos on the site, we have two groups, but do not know exactly who from those to groups. My instincts tell me the info is buried somewhere. That being said, we may never know who the first Anglos on site where. (after Mesoamericans). There are a lot of guys here who are good at research, I would like to see them focus on the old world and anything related, to Spanish and Jesuits first, second and third Generational, New Spain. We know the info on the stones (most of the info) is meaningful, but whoever did the interloper stones means very little. Wayne have you done research from archives, I know you have done some, exactly what areas?

New posts on site. Red Hearing and # 24.

 

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[arcana-exploration]

Sorry meant to teg to Wayne's post about where the Org stone's may have, and why buried.

 

[Al D]

The first foot powered dental drill, circa 1790

 

[Al D]

Still surprises me that so many folks don't open up the possibilities but remain focused on the Superstitions as the only possible solution to the PSMs.

If not the Superstitions, then where?
both Travis and Mitchell were convinced of it.

 

[Doc4261]

If not the Superstitions, then where?
both Travis and Mitchell were convinced of it.

The Jesuits def had a hand in the maps. There are plenty of other maps that back up the places atleast for me.

 

[deducer]

Not to pick a bone with anyone but the electric drill was available circa 1895, and rotary cutters or burrs that could be used for carving stone (or even a regular metal cutting "twist" type drill bit) were readily available. A Dremel was not necessary when a portable electric drill could do much the same type of engraving.

Desert Archaeology Inc stated that they could see the tool marks from an electric drill under magnification on the Peralta Stone Maps.

Still surprises me that so many folks don't open up the possibilities but remain focused on the Superstitions as the only possible solution to the PSMs.

Roy,

Did anyone ever get a copy of their report?

 

[Al D]

Roy,

Did anyone ever get a copy of their report?

Arizona Highways did an article on the stones, I think their report was included,

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

It's my belief that it's the other way around- that the family actually manipulated RG and used him as a means of probing this community for any clues or tips that they might use in their hunt for what leads to the end of the trail on the Stone Maps. I don't think they told him everything or revealed everything.

The family was not very forthcoming, either with the truth or with sharing everything. That they refused to release the star map or the ground map in its entirety, speaks volume to me. IF they believed the Stone Maps to be fraudulent, then why hold back on anything? Why does Joe Tumlinson insist on being in every video with another member of his family? You can see his eyes become shifty when the other party starts talking at length.

The story of how Travis found the Stone Maps is chock full of holes and has been, from day one. Was he looking for Weaver's needle? Getting water for his car? Taking a piss?

If he had tripped over one of the stone, the exposed part of that stone would be very different than the rest of the stone, color and texture-wise. As it is, none of the Stone Maps bear that distinction. The Trail Stones have the look of stones that have been stored indoors in a dark place for a very long time. If they were buried face to face, then why is only one side pockmarked and the other (cross side), relatively smooth?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit to find out the Tumlinson family is on and off hunting for what Travis was looking for, such a long time ago, including monitoring this forum.

And what sort of con man ends his manuscript on such a sad note, moaning about failure? "I have failed.." he wrote.. "(T)here is nothing in the Superstitions that I expect to see, or ever care to see again."

That is sure a bad way to con people out of their money to invest in some bogus treasure hunt.

Howdy deducer,

RG is a smooth talker, and was the one spending money to form his story hoping he could get it back, and then some. He put stars in Joe T's eyes, and a gag on most everyone. I have nothing against RG, or any of the Tumlinsons, I am just in the defense of Travis who is not here to defend himself as his story gets twisted every which way.

You say the story of how Travis found the stones is chock full of holes, well just go around those holes so you won't fall into them and you will see that the basic story is there, and real. It does not matter if he was looking for arrowheads, or if his car got hot, or if his bladder got full, what matters is that he was there. He tripped on a small grey stone on a rise as he was trying to see if Weaver's Needle could be seen from there. Weaver's Needle is a prominent landmark there, so it is very probable that he was in fact looking to see if it was visible. Getting on higher ground would help, and he did trip on the Priest/Horse stone on a rise. The P/H stone is grey in color compared to the others. It did appear small because it was the small end with Santa Fe carved on it. For a long time I would say it was the top edge that has Miguel carved on it, the one that was exposed, but it makes more sense that it was the smaller end. It was the carving that made Travis dig it out. He later described it as the P/H stone, so yes he did if fact find it.
The trail stones only really needed one good side to carve the map. One happened to have a pretty bad side, that's the way it was found, it didn't get like that by being buried.These two trail stones may have been rubbed together for a smoother surface.

Travis never could solve the PSM's as he stated, there's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make him a con man if he never tried to profit from them.

Homar

 

[deducer]

Arizona Highways did an article on the stones, I think their report was included,

The report was not included in the article which is linked here, courtesy of Garry Cundiff: Arizona Highways

 

[deducer]

Howdy deducer,

RG is a smooth talker, and was the one spending money to form his story hoping he could get it back, and then some. He put stars in Joe T's eyes, and a gag on most everyone. I have nothing against RG, or any of the Tumlinsons, I am just in the defense of Travis who is not here to defend himself as his story gets twisted every which way.

You say the story of how Travis found the stones is chock full of holes, well just go around those holes so you won't fall into them and you will see that the basic story is there, and real. It does not matter if he was looking for arrowheads, or if his car got hot, or if his bladder got full, what matters is that he was there. He tripped on a small grey stone on a rise as he was trying to see if Weaver's Needle could be seen from there. Weaver's Needle is a prominent landmark there, so it is very probable that he was in fact looking to see if it was visible. Getting on higher ground would help, and he did trip on the Priest/Horse stone on a rise. The P/H stone is grey in color compared to the others. It did appear small because it was the small end with Santa Fe carved on it. For a long time I would say it was the top edge that has Miguel carved on it, the one that was exposed, but it makes more sense that it was the smaller end. It was the carving that made Travis dig it out. He later described it as the P/H stone, so yes he did if fact find it.
The trail stones only really needed one good side to carve the map. One happened to have a pretty bad side, that's the way it was found, it didn't get like that by being buried.These two trail stones may have been rubbed together for a smoother surface.

Travis never could solve the PSM's as he stated, there's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make him a con man if he never tried to profit from them.

Homar

What is the point of looking for Weaver's Needle from that particular spot? What purpose does that serve? He would have been better off going up 88 to the vista if he really wanted to see it from the road.

 

[Al D]

Howdy deducer,

RG is a smooth talker, and was the one spending money to form his story hoping he could get it back, and then some. He put stars in Joe T's eyes, and a gag on most everyone. I have nothing against RG, or any of the Tumlinsons, I am just in the defense of Travis who is not here to defend himself as his story gets twisted every which way.

You say the story of how Travis found the stones is chock full of holes, well just go around those holes so you won't fall into them and you will see that the basic story is there, and real. It does not matter if he was looking for arrowheads, or if his car got hot, or if his bladder got full, what matters is that he was there. He tripped on a small grey stone on a rise as he was trying to see if Weaver's Needle could be seen from there. Weaver's Needle is a prominent landmark there, so it is very probable that he was in fact looking to see if it was visible. Getting on higher ground would help, and he did trip on the Priest/Horse stone on a rise. The P/H stone is grey in color compared to the others. It did appear small because it was the small end with Santa Fe carved on it. For a long time I would say it was the top edge that has Miguel carved on it, the one that was exposed, but it makes more sense that it was the smaller end. It was the carving that made Travis dig it out. He later described it as the P/H stone, so yes he did if fact find it.
The trail stones only really needed one good side to carve the map. One happened to have a pretty bad side, that's the way it was found, it didn't get like that by being buried.These two trail stones may have been rubbed together for a smoother surface.

Travis never could solve the PSM's as he stated, there's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make him a con man if he never tried to profit from them.

Homar

There is no way that the story of how the stones were found, which was told by Clarence Mitchell, could be true.
proof: duplicate the actions, eight paces north and then eight paces magnetic north, the difference is less than three feet.
there is no way that this difference could have been determinant in finding the other stones.
also to consider, Queen Creek floods regularly, so how many time since 1847 to 1949 did it flood? How could the stones have remained where they were allegedly buried?
the whole story is a fabrication.

 

[azdave35]

What is the point of looking for Weaver's Needle from that particular spot? What purpose does that serve? He would have been better off going up 88 to the vista if he really wanted to see it from the road.

i'm not even sure you can see the needle from florence junction...i'll have to ride out and see

 

[Al D]

The report was not included in the article which is linked here, courtesy of Garry Cundiff: Arizona Highways

I have it somewhere, I will try to find it for you

 

[wrmickel1]

arthur...you say that every year...if you really want to learn...then make time to come...

Mince again Arthur don’t do it. It’s a trap!

Babymick1

 

[Carl995]

Hey Jes, take that pack mule to the trading post & trade some gold for a drill & an Artic Air Cooler (it's 120 degrees out!).....oh and swing by that one area
(now Texas)
& pick up some of that flat stone.

 

[wrmickel1]

There is no way that the story of how the stones were found, which was told by Clarence Mitchell, could be true.
proof: duplicate the actions, eight paces north and then eight paces magnetic north, the difference is less than three feet.
there is no way that this difference could have been determinant in finding the other stones.
also to consider, Queen Creek floods regularly, so how many time since 1847 to 1949 did it flood? How could the stones have remained where they were allegedly buried?
the whole story is a fabrication.

Alan I see your using the old blurt crap out, with no proof to it. Dave’s Technic. Get Permission
babymick1

 

[Al D]

Alan I see your using the old blurt crap out, with no proof to it. Dave’s Technic. Get Permission
babymick1

It is very easy to prove, you just have to count to eight, you can do that can’t you baby?

 

[Carl995]

i'm not even sure you can see the needle from florence junction...i'll have to ride out and see

I have seen pics somewhere that it can't be seen from there. Maybe it was RG's video?

 

[Oroblanco]

If not the Superstitions, then where?
both Travis and Mitchell were convinced of it.

They will fit in a number of places, in at least two cases extremely well. Just open your mind to other possibilities, don't assume that because a set of maps was allegedly found NEAR the Superstition mountains then they MUST be of that place. If I dropped a map of Nova Scotia at the Peralta trailhead, you would not assume that map must be of the Superstitions, so why do so many assume the stone maps MUST go to the Superstitions? Even the scale is wrong - the eighteen 'dots' would logically mark camping sites for a day's travel and it doesn't take eighteen days to traverse the full length of the Superstition mountains. Just look at the knife and the arrow, one of them probably would point north right? Then look at where the Spanish and the missionaries were historically active in the southwest, not just Arizona either, remember the whole area including Texas, Colorado, Nevada, Utah and California were all part of the Spanish dominions and were being actively 'missionized' for two full centuries.

Deducer wrote

Roy,

Did anyone ever get a copy of their report?

I see that others already answered with links to the report.

 

[wrmickel1]

I have seen pics somewhere that it can't be seen from there. Maybe it was RG's video?

Better Fact Check It, If RG is envoled in it.

babymick1