New site?...with different clue versions?

[azdave35]

This is just your interpretation and you think your “proof” comes from my inability to disprove it, typical con man tactic.
and your photo sucks, cannot tell what it is supposed to be. If this is your idea of proof, we are done here.

alan..you going to the rendezvous this year?

 

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[somehiker]

he definitely thinks is genuine..i know he didn't plant it because he has never sought any attention....the only reason he showed it to tom is because they were friends

Not suggesting he did.
But he might have been sucked in by someone else who did.

That said though, I have previously shared my own theory of how the stones may have wound up being buried in that place near Florence Junction and by Queen Creek. That Fr. Ignatius Keller had them along when the horses and mules were taken by the Apache as they raided his expedition to the northern villages of the Moqui. The place where this occurred was described as being slightly to the west of a significant mountain range which was two or three days north of the Gila. One soldier and one native guide were killed during the raid, and I suspect the two grave-sized pits were where they were buried before the group returned to the Pima Villages on the Gila. They couldn't go on without pack animals, nor could Keller carry the stones back, or even risk anyone else finding out about them on the way back. So he arranged for them to be buried near the location of their camp before returning. Later on, the Pima refused to supply any help for further travel via that route, or even in that direction.

 

[Al D]

alan..you going to the rendezvous this year?

I am planning on it, depends on work

 

[coazon de oro]

I wonder if anyone has tried to replicate the maps using only what was available back then on the same type rock, no dremel?
That would answer the question......

Howdy Carrol,

There happen to be pre-dremel stone carvings that can not be replicated by anything we have today.

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

I heard that story directly from Janie's "sister".
That Travis had gotten an old Mexican friend of the family to carve the H/P stone, copying the horse in her coloring book onto the stone.
And just a few days later, at the Rendezvous, same story from someone else as well.
RG told me they had a photo of her with the coloring book, but wouldn't show me because I would only say the horse was different.

Howdy Wayne,

If RG had any proof whatsoever, he would have presented it, but it seems that he himself knew the horse was indeed different, it he actually had a picture.

Homar

 

[azdave35]

Howdy Carrol,

There happen to be pre-dremel stone carvings that can not be replicated by anything we have today.

Homar

come on homar...those could be replicated quite easily ..i have a friend that is a stone carving artist....she could do it blindfolded

 

[coazon de oro]

come on homar...those could be replicated quite easily ..i have a friend that is a stone carving artist....she could do it blindfolded

Howdy dave,

Exactly, a dremel was not needed to carve the stones.

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

Mike,

Travis was seen carving the Spanish Galleon/Treasure Chest stone. Maybe this is why some of his family members think he carved the PSM's which was impossible for him to do so.

Some say Travis carved the zeros on the back of the heart insert, but this is also impossible. That heart insert was broken, and patched when he uncovered it. This is evident in the bumper picture that was taken after the discovery there in Arizona. There were still roots in some of the groves, so no, the picture was not taken in Texas. If you look closely at the zeros, the glue which I think had to be made out of pine resin, and charcoal, fills the groves where the zeros are carved. That makes it impossible for them to have been carved by Travis.

Homar

 

[azdave35]

Howdy dave,

Exactly, a dremel was not needed to carve the stones.

Homar

you sure are a stubborn old texan...there was more proof than made public...hopefully one day it will come out

 

[gollum]

mike..way to much to process..you just scrambled my pea brain....if the family didn't want anyone bugging them then why did rg live out there with them for two years?....i go by what other people that were with rg told me...also what other family members told me...travis's nephew told me face to face in my living room that everyone in the family knows travis carved the stone maps...i have another little twist to the saga...a guy that lives a couple miles from me has a stone map that his father found out by queen valley...i have seen the map..so has tom k. it doesn't look anything like the stone maps at the museum...its half the size of them...and its a dark reddish stone....chew on that for a while

See,

You have to look at the big picture. SOME of the little stuff says that Travis is the originator of the Stone Maps. A lot of other little stuff says he thought they were authentic. All that long post said (in essence) is that this story is CHOCK FULL of contradictions. For every piece of evidence you can show me that the stone maps are fakes carved by Travis, I can give you five that say the opposite. But on the other hand, for every piece of evidence anyone can give me that they are authentic, I can give five that they aren't. AIN'T LIFE GRAND? HAHAHA

Its just like talking Dutchman with Tom. You could hear him telling someone about different places he thought it might be, but ten minutes later, you could hear him explaining to someone else how it couldn't exist!

Mike

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Travis was seen carving the Spanish Galleon/Treasure Chest stone. Maybe this is why some of his family members think he carved the PSM's which was impossible for him to do so.

Some say Travis carved the zeros on the back of the heart insert, but this is also impossible. That heart insert was broken, and patched when he uncovered it. This is evident in the bumper picture that was taken after the discovery there in Arizona. There were still roots in some of the groves, so no, the picture was not taken in Texas. If you look closely at the zeros, the glue which I think had to be made out of pine resin, and charcoal, fills the groves where the zeros are carved. That makes it impossible for them to have been carved by Travis.

Homar

Sorry Homar but that is not correct. He carved the Spanish Galleon/Treasure Chest Stone many years before. He lived in that little cabin when he was a kid in the 1920s and 1930s. He was living in Hood River, Oregon when he "found" the stone maps. If he carved them at the cabin, he would have had to let them sit around gathering dust for 10 or 15 years.

Mike

 

[coazon de oro]

Sorry Homar but that is not correct. He carved the Spanish Galleon/Treasure Chest Stone many years before. He lived in that little cabin when he was a kid in the 1920s and 1930s. He was living in Hood River, Oregon when he "found" the stone maps. If he carved them at the cabin, he would have had to let them sit around gathering dust for 10 or 15 years.

Mike

Sorry Mike, but Travis was incapable of carving the PSM's because he didn't know Spanish. He had to look for a translator when he found the PSM's. He butchered the Spanish language as an adult on the SG/TC stone. As a kid he would have not known about Madrid, or what date to choose for it. It was RG who coached the Tumlinsons into saying things to make the story fit, but the stones speak for themselves. When RG was making up his story, I would point things out, and I remember him coming up with a so called expert who dated the SG/TC photo to a date prior the him finding the PSM's. Even when I said the the PSM's were found broken and glued back together as shown on the bumper picture, he coached the Tumlinson's into saying that they remembered when the heart was broken and glued back with tire patch adhesive. Tire patch glue will never get hard, and eventually deteriorates, so you know that was not true like most of what they claimed to remember.

Homar

 

[deducer]

Sorry Mike, but Travis was incapable of carving the PSM's because he didn't know Spanish. He had to look for a translator when he found the PSM's. He butchered the Spanish language as an adult on the SG/TC stone. As a kid he would have not known about Madrid, or what date to choose for it. It was RG who coached the Tumlinsons into saying things to make the story fit, but the stones speak for themselves. When RG was making up his story, I would point things out, and I remember him coming up with a so called expert who dated the SG/TC photo to a date prior the him finding the PSM's. Even when I said the the PSM's were found broken and glued back together as shown on the bumper picture, he coached the Tumlinson's into saying that they remembered when the heart was broken and glued back with tire patch adhesive. Tire patch glue will never get hard, and eventually deteriorates, so you know that was not true like most of what they claimed to remember.

Homar

Homar,

It's my belief that it's the other way around- that the family actually manipulated RG and used him as a means of probing this community for any clues or tips that they might use in their hunt for what leads to the end of the trail on the Stone Maps. I don't think they told him everything or revealed everything.

The family was not very forthcoming, either with the truth or with sharing everything. That they refused to release the star map or the ground map in its entirety, speaks volume to me. IF they believed the Stone Maps to be fraudulent, then why hold back on anything? Why does Joe Tumlinson insist on being in every video with another member of his family? You can see his eyes become shifty when the other party starts talking at length.

The story of how Travis found the Stone Maps is chock full of holes and has been, from day one. Was he looking for Weaver's needle? Getting water for his car? Taking a piss?

If he had tripped over one of the stone, the exposed part of that stone would be very different than the rest of the stone, color and texture-wise. As it is, none of the Stone Maps bear that distinction. The Trail Stones have the look of stones that have been stored indoors in a dark place for a very long time. If they were buried face to face, then why is only one side pockmarked and the other (cross side), relatively smooth?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit to find out the Tumlinson family is on and off hunting for what Travis was looking for, such a long time ago, including monitoring this forum.

And what sort of con man ends his manuscript on such a sad note, moaning about failure? "I have failed.." he wrote.. "(T)here is nothing in the Superstitions that I expect to see, or ever care to see again."

That is sure a bad way to con people out of their money to invest in some bogus treasure hunt.

 

[azdave35]

Homar,

It's my belief that it's the other way around- that the family actually manipulated RG and used him as a means of probing this community for any clues or tips that they might use in their hunt for what leads to the end of the trail on the Stone Maps. I don't think they told him everything or revealed everything.

The family was not very forthcoming, either with the truth or with sharing everything. That they refused to release the star map or the ground map in its entirety, speaks volume to me. IF they believed the Stone Maps to be fraudulent, then why hold back on anything? Why does Joe Tumlinson insist on being in every video with another member of his family? You can see his eyes become shifty when the other party starts talking at length.

The story of how Travis found the Stone Maps is chock full of holes and has been, from day one. Was he looking for Weaver's needle? Getting water for his car? Taking a piss?

If he had tripped over one of the stone, the exposed part of that stone would be very different than the rest of the stone, color and texture-wise. As it is, none of the Stone Maps bear that distinction. The Trail Stones have the look of stones that have been stored indoors in a dark place for a very long time. If they were buried face to face, then why is only one side pockmarked and the other (cross side), relatively smooth?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit to find out the Tumlinson family is on and off hunting for what Travis was looking for, such a long time ago, including monitoring this forum.

And what sort of con man ends his manuscript on such a sad note, moaning about failure? "I have failed.." he wrote.. "(T)here is nothing in the Superstitions that I expect to see, or ever care to see again."

That is sure a bad way to con people out of their money to invest in some bogus treasure hunt.

you are way off base on this arthur...you should talk to the right people and base your posts on fact..not theory..if you would quit being a recluse and show up at the rendezvous you might get a few facts

 

[deducer]

you are way off base on this arthur...you should talk to the right people and base your posts on fact..not theory..if you would quit being a recluse and show up at the rendezvous you might get a few facts

Feel free to correct me with facts. Don't just say I'm way off base. Tell me how I'm off base.

 

[azdave35]

Feel free to correct me with facts. Don't just say I'm way off base. Tell me how I'm off base.

no arthur...feel free to come to the rendezvous and get friendly with everyone...then you might learn a few facts...you are always trying to bully info from people here but never want to give any...get with the program arthur

 

[deducer]

no arthur...feel free to come to the rendezvous and get friendly with everyone...then you might learn a few facts...you are always trying to bully info from people here but never want to give any...get with the program arthur

I've told you I'm unable to make it this year.

I don't have a problem with you telling me I'm way off base, but you should at least tell me why.

 

[azdave35]

I've told you I'm unable to make it this year.

I don't have a problem with you telling me I'm way off base, but you should at least tell me why.

arthur...you say that every year...if you really want to learn...then make time to come...

 

[Oroblanco]

Not to pick a bone with anyone but the electric drill was available circa 1895, and rotary cutters or burrs that could be used for carving stone (or even a regular metal cutting "twist" type drill bit) were readily available. A Dremel was not necessary when a portable electric drill could do much the same type of engraving.

Desert Archaeology Inc stated that they could see the tool marks from an electric drill under magnification on the Peralta Stone Maps.

Still surprises me that so many folks don't open up the possibilities but remain focused on the Superstitions as the only possible solution to the PSMs.

 

[Al D]

Not to pick a bone with anyone but the electric drill was available circa 1895, and rotary cutters or burrs that could be used for carving stone (or even a regular metal cutting "twist" type drill bit) were readily available. A Dremel was not necessary when a portable electric drill could do much the same type of engraving.

Desert Archaeology Inc stated that they could see the tool marks from an electric drill under magnification on the Peralta Stone Maps.

Still surprises me that so many folks don't open up the possibilities but remain focused on the Superstitions as the only possible solution to the PSMs.

The pulley driven, manual foot pump type drill was used in the late 1700’s.
this is one of the main reasons that I disagree with DA inc conclusions, they assumed that the tool marks were from a high speed machine, when actually, since it was sandstone, the marks could have been made by a hand or manual powered drill, heck, even the Peruvians and Egyptians had drills 3000 years ago.