New site?...with different clue versions?

[azdave35]

Roy,

I don't really think it's a fair comparison- Hull's intent was to create a spectacle by which he could profit from the attention, within a short amount of time, like you said, by having it "dug up." He didn't wait for someone to accidentally dig it up. And even then he was quickly outed as a fraud.

Nobody has ever conclusively proved that the Stone Maps are a fraud.

And as far as the giant "7" and the "4" further up on the cliff, nobody has ever taken advantage of either, to create attention, or to lure investors, to my knowledge.

deducer...as far as most of us EXPERIENCED ldm hunters are concerned the stone maps were proven to be fraudulent many years ago..way before rg went to texas..what he found there was just icing on the cake..and i know you think you know everything that took place in texas but believe me you don't..if you did you would wash your hands of this stone map nonsense and go on to something else..i've invited you to the rendezvous on different occasions but you never show..take my invite this year...you will learn much

 

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[wrmickel1]

mick...we tend to judge a man by the way he speaks..or in this case spells...most of us learned to spell in 3rd grade so we wonder why a 57 year old man cant?...its just human nature to wonder about these things

Dave

You left out why so many can’t comprehend what they read.

Wrmickel1

 

[azdave35]

Dave

You left out why so many can’t comprehend what they read.

Wrmickel1

actually mick...we just cant comprehend what you write

 

[wrmickel1]

deducer...as far as most of us EXPERIENCED ldm hunters are concerned the stone maps were proven to be fraudulent many years ago..way before rg went to texas..what he found there was just icing on the cake..and i know you think you know everything that took place in texas but believe me you don't..if you did you would wash your hands of this stone map nonsense and go on to something else..i've invited you to the rendezvous on different occasions but you never show..take my invite this year...you will learn much

Its not top Secret Dave.

If they would have been Proven Fraudulent way before, it would have been all over the Fourms from day one.
You have no solid evidence, Period.

wrmickel1

 

[azdave35]

Its not top Secret Dave.

If they would have been Proven Fraudulent way before, it would have been all over the Fourms from day one.
You have no solid evidence, Period.

wrmickel1

the forums?...why would it be all over the forums?...none of the big boys get on the forums...the forum is just entertainment for when it is too hot to go out in the hills..like i told the deducer...come to the rendezvous and learn my friend

 

[deducer]

deducer...as far as most of us EXPERIENCED ldm hunters are concerned the stone maps were proven to be fraudulent many years ago..way before rg went to texas..what he found there was just icing on the cake..and i know you think you know everything that took place in texas but believe me you don't..if you did you would wash your hands of this stone map nonsense and go on to something else..i've invited you to the rendezvous on different occasions but you never show..take my invite this year...you will learn much

Dave, in late October, I'll be in Mexico City for the Dia de Muertos festival. But I'll be in Arizona for two weeks in November. Once I'm there, I'll invite you to have dinner with me. Jim is also invited if he's going to be around. How's that?

 

[azdave35]

Dave, in late October, I'll be in Mexico City for the Dia de Muertos festival. But I'll be in Arizona for two weeks in November. Once I'm there, I'll invite you to have dinner with me. Jim is also invited if he's going to be around. How's that?

sounds like a plan

 

[Al D]

Although I disagree with HBB concerning aspects of the Organization, I also suspect that any recoverable gold caches in central Arizona are much more likely to have been placed in the past 150 years than as a "King's Fifth" centuries ago. Here's a question: why would the Crown allow their tax money to be hidden in the wilderness by mining contractors beyond the Northern Frontier, requiring an expensive expedition to travel so far to recover it? The Crown kept track of these obligations and expected payment when the miners returned to Mexico. If the mining venture was off the books, there would be no tax money due by definition.

Having said that, I also suspect there may be something else of greater value than a recoverable cache secreted somewhere in the region. What it is remains speculative.

Very good points, I am not convinced there is, or was, a royal fifth vault, but I do think it is plausible, there was a lot of theft going on and the King did not know much about the New World with conflicting reports, losses of ships with huge gold cargos, like the Atocha, seems that every group in New Spain were conducting covert operations to get rich, even the Jesuits. It may be that some of the Kings tax men went rogue and started their own tax collecting operation. Then there was the case of the phantom presidio. It appears that the King did not have as much knowledge or control over what was going on as he thought or would have liked, so who knows what someone could or could not have gotten away with.

 

[azdave35]

Very good points, I am not convinced there is, or was, a royal fifth vault, but I do think it is plausible, there was a lot of theft going on and the King did not know much about the New World with conflicting reports, losses of ships with huge gold cargos, like the Atocha, seems that every group in New Spain were conducting covert operations to get rich, even the Jesuits. It may be that some of the Kings tax men went rogue and started their own tax collecting operation. Then there was the case of the phantom presidio. It appears that the King did not have as much knowledge or control over what was going on as he thought or would have liked, so who knows what someone could or could not have gotten away with.

alan..i'm sure they had crooked politicians back then too that skimmed gold and stashed it

 

[Al D]

alan..i'm sure they had crooked politicians back then too that skimmed gold and stashed it

In the book “Description of the Indies” by Antonio Vasquez de Espinosa, he makes it very clear that the level of corruption and theft was at the highest level and occurred in nearly every city and province throughout New Spain

 

[azdave35]

In the book “Description of the Indies” by Antonio Vasquez de Espinosa, he makes it very clear that the level of corruption and theft was at the highest level and occurred in nearly every city and province throughout New Spain

lol..it has been going on since the caveman days and will continue till the end

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

I don't really think it's a fair comparison- Hull's intent was to create a spectacle by which he could profit from the attention, within a short amount of time, like you said, by having it "dug up." He didn't wait for someone to accidentally dig it up. And even then he was quickly outed as a fraud.

Nobody has ever conclusively proved that the Stone Maps are a fraud.

And as far as the giant "7" and the "4" further up on the cliff, nobody has ever taken advantage of either, to create attention, or to lure investors, to my knowledge.

I don't think it is possible to prove beyond any possible shadow of doubt whether the stone maps are real or modern frauds. All we have is really circumstantial evidence. For me, the fact that other carved stones turned up at the Tumlinson homestead where Travis lived, that certainly appear to have been carved by the same hand and on the same themes (Spanish treasure) it is at the least highly suspicious. For someone else, these other carved stones don't mean anything.

As to the giant 4 and 7, how can we ever be absolutely certain that they have anything to do with the stone maps? Could this not be a case of 'shoe fitting' some landmarks to fit the stone maps?

On the thieving, Alan hit the nail on the head there. Even father Kino complained when he shipped several hundred ounces of silver out from Pimeria, intended to go to Rome, and somehow it "evaporated" during the shipping across Mexico.

 

[deducer]

I don't think it is possible to prove beyond any possible shadow of doubt whether the stone maps are real or modern frauds. All we have is really circumstantial evidence. For me, the fact that other carved stones turned up at the Tumlinson homestead where Travis lived, that certainly appear to have been carved by the same hand and on the same themes (Spanish treasure) it is at the least highly suspicious. For someone else, these other carved stones don't mean anything.

As to the giant 4 and 7, how can we ever be absolutely certain that they have anything to do with the stone maps? Could this not be a case of 'shoe fitting' some landmarks to fit the stone maps?

On the thieving, Alan hit the nail on the head there. Even father Kino complained when he shipped several hundred ounces of silver out from Pimeria, intended to go to Rome, and somehow it "evaporated" during the shipping across Mexico.

I have no clue as to what really happened as far as the history of the Tumlinsons and how they came into contact with the Stone Maps. It would have been nice if it had been a professional researcher such as Glover who had gone down there to interview the family instead of a circus barker who set off a powder keg. As it is, we'll probably never know the truth.

However, one thing I know is that the Tumlinsons are just a footnote to the entire saga. It was by pure luck that they came across one or more of the Stone Maps.

There are not just the "4" and the "7" in that specific area, but nearly every symbol on the Stone Maps is accounted for, including the one in the picture below, taken by Wayne.



I apologize that it's not clear, but if you look very carefully, you'll be able to see it.

 

[wrmickel1]

Deducer

It had nothing to do with obtaining the facts. It was all for a new Treasure Show!

Wrmickel1

 

[azdave35]

I have no clue as to what really happened as far as the history of the Tumlinsons and how they came into contact with the Stone Maps. It would have been nice if it had been a professional researcher such as Glover who had gone down there to interview the family instead of a circus barker who set off a powder keg. As it is, we'll probably never know the truth.

However, one thing I know is that the Tumlinsons are just a footnote to the entire saga. It was by pure luck that they came across one or more of the Stone Maps.

There are not just the "4" and the "7" in that specific area, but nearly every symbol on the Stone Maps is accounted for, including the one in the picture below, taken by Wayne.

View attachment 1727137

I apologize that it's not clear, but if you look very carefully, you'll be able to see it.

what are we looking at here?..maybe i just didn't squint enough

 

[markmar]

what are we looking at here?..maybe i just didn't squint enough

A heart in the middle and a trail?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

what are we looking at here?..maybe i just didn't squint enough

Dave, I'm with ya Even when I squint I can't make this stuff out! Must be time for me to swap out the lenses in my eyes...my dad and uncle both had it done, afterwards their eyes both glowed like a raccoon's when light hit them, but they were like "Holy Crap! I can see!" Gotta love what that sun does to our eyes! Time for me to get the ol' cataracts checked

 

[azdave35]

Dave, I'm with ya Even when I squint I can't make this stuff out! Must be time for me to swap out the lenses in my eyes...my dad and uncle both had it done, afterwards their eyes both glowed like a raccoon's when light hit them, but they were like "Holy Crap! I can see!" Gotta love what that sun does to our eyes! Time for me to get the ol' cataracts checked

i'm so bad i rarely drive at night anymore...lol..when i was young they called me eagle eye....now i'm known by other names

 

[sailaway]

long as we are showing giant sevens with 4's then here.

at the base are large palo verde trees and full grown oaks behind them

Everything anyone wants to point out in their specific area can be found in the other guys area. The shapes are determined by what direction a feature faces out there. If you see a giant 7 turn 90 degrees and you will see faces and horses. ect... There is nothing magical about finding all the signs on the PSM's because they are everywhere. When you turn the other direction from the sevens and you see Priests. All the same signs you mention can be seen from standing one spot in Angel Basin. Does it mean that the PSM's lead there or anywhere in particular or is it just a recording of a way to be able to navigate through the Wilderness area by the shapes you are seeing? This keeps you headed in the direction you need to go to get out of there?
My theory is they are simple guides to show which trails to take to continue your travels in the direction you originally started off in. None of them carved but natural features determined by the direction each cliff faces.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I think I'm getting the hang of this...this looks like my leg after face-planting into the side of a wash at 60MPH...I know this was meant for me as I was listening to the Eagles right before it happened...