New site?...with different clue versions?

[azdave35]

Yes, I have all the court documents from the SEC Investigation. Do you know what it was for? Not for fraud. Not for anything bad. MOEL had not filed one of the many forms necessary to sell shares in the corporation. No big deal. Just couldn't sell shares in the company until proper forms filed.

Bob Ward wasn't completely nuts. He was an extremely smart guy. He just had some alcohol and mental issues. How does the old saying go "It's a thin line between genius and lunacy".

Mike

mike...if you believe what some who knew bob said he was a korean war hero and had mental problems ..PTSD maybe

 

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[Oroblanco]

Suspect, is not proof! Sir

wrmickel1

That statement makes no sense as an answer to my post to you. Treasure-themed stones were found at the Tumlinson family house where Travis lived, including if memory serves something carved right into the fireplace/chimney. Believe what you will, but the FACT that such carved stones were found at this home of Travis SHOULD raise some red flags for you.


Gollum wrote

Roy,

Now, now! You can't say "absolutely" Travis carved the Stone Maps! You did not personally watch him do it. He never admitted to doing so (other than saying he added some things to them in case they were stolen). I agree that the best evidence makes it appear Travis did carve them. I think it is more likely than not he did carve them. That said, I do have some doubts (see my new thread).

Mike

I can absolutely say absolutely. Prove that Travis Tumlinson did NOT carve the treasure chest/Spanish galleon stone or the other carved stones found at the Tumlinson home. Are you claiming that these other carved Tumlinson stones were carved by someone else? The behavior of living Tumlinson relatives today, hardly builds any confidence in the authenticity of the Peralta stones.

Not related but you must agree that Clarence Mitchell was investigated for POSSIBLE fraudulent activities. Not convicted.

 

[wrmickel1]

That statement makes no sense as an answer to my post to you. Treasure-themed stones were found at the Tumlinson family house where Travis lived, including if memory serves something carved right into the fireplace/chimney. Believe what you will, but the FACT that such carved stones were found at this home of Travis SHOULD raise some red flags for you.


Gollum wrote


I can absolutely say absolutely. Prove that Travis Tumlinson did NOT carve the treasure chest/Spanish galleon stone or the other carved stones found at the Tumlinson home. Are you claiming that these other carved Tumlinson stones were carved by someone else? The behavior of living Tumlinson relatives today, hardly builds any confidence in the authenticity of the Peralta stones.

Not related but you must agree that Clarence Mitchell was investigated for POSSIBLE fraudulent activities. Not convicted.

Oroblanco

It makes perfect sense, Conviction, You can’t Railroad someone without evidence,

Now if my memory serves me right, The carvings on the chimney not fire place, we’re childlike as if a kid made them.

They were mostly cattle Brands with a pistol a ship and I do believe a sun a cowboy or maybe just a hat. And down the way alittle mostly just names at the swimming hole. So yeah Travis liked to put pic’s in stone. What kid did’nt.

Ohh by the way the four little gray stone were just a prop done by RG himself, Gotta sell the story right. He’s the Con man ask Frank he’ll tell you RG no good.

Wrmickel1

 

[arcana-exploration]

That statement makes no sense as an answer to my post to you. Treasure-themed stones were found at the Tumlinson family house where Travis lived, including if memory serves something carved right into the fireplace/chimney. Believe what you will, but the FACT that such carved stones were found at this home of Travis SHOULD raise some red flags for you.


Gollum wrote


I can absolutely say absolutely. Prove that Travis Tumlinson did NOT carve the treasure chest/Spanish galleon stone or the other carved stones found at the Tumlinson home. Are you claiming that these other carved Tumlinson stones were carved by someone else? The behavior of living Tumlinson relatives today, hardly builds any confidence in the authenticity of the Peralta stones.

Not related but you must agree that Clarence Mitchell was investigated for POSSIBLE fraudulent activities. Not convicted.

In the end, what is really important is, is the information on the stones relevant, not who carved them and if relevant who most likely made an original map that they would have copied onto the stones and thirdly why? Till that can be answered, who carved them, once you have that then maybe who carved what may be interesting, but still not that important

 

[azdave35]

In the end, what is really important is, is the information on the stones relevant, not who carved them and if relevant who most likely made an original map that they would have copied onto the stones and thirdly why? Till that can be answered, who carved them, once you have that then maybe who carved what may be interesting, but still not that important

it has been proven who carved the stone maps...the why is not clear though

 

[wrmickel1]

it has been proven who carved the stone maps...the why is not clear though

Well I missed that Dave, Now who proved the maps were carved by who

wrmickel1

 

[wrmickel1]

Ohh Dave

The why is clear, Who carved them is not!

wrmickel1

 

[arcana-exploration]

Hey, Mick let me rephrase that...... the most important, thing is ...... is the information that the stones have carved onto them.... important? the point I am trying to make is IMO the info on the stones most likely was sourced from an old map .... and whoever made the stones took the info off an old map from an old map......IMO WE have information that links the info on one of the stones to an old map that also links directly to early Spanish, at this time we do not know if they early Jesuit or another early Spanish entity, what we have is undeniable. Before everybody goes off I am telling what we have, I have no hidden agendas, and for business, reasons will save this until later. This is one of our most important links. But I have to be honest I am asking about the stones because I am trying figure who made the original information that was garnered to the stones. What source did they use for the info on the stones? I know they were most likely early Jesuits. Whoever they were they Spanish The information we have comes directly from Spain and is very very old.

 

[Al D]

Hey, Mick let me rephrase that...... the most important, thing is ...... is the information that the stones have carved onto them.... important? the point I am trying to make is IMO the info on the stones most likely was sourced from an old map .... and whoever made the stones took the info off an old map from an old map......IMO WE have information that links the info on one of the stones to an old map that also links directly to early Spanish, at this time we do not know if they early Jesuit or another early Spanish entity, what we have is undeniable. Before everybody goes off I am telling what we have, I have no hidden agendas, and for business, reasons will save this until later. This is one of our most important links. But I have to be honest I am asking about the stones because I am trying figure who made the original information that was garnered to the stones. What source did they use for the info on the stones? I know they were most likely early Jesuits. Whoever they were they Spanish The information we have comes directly from Spain and is very very old.

I hope its not the Peralta Tesoro Mappa

 

[azdave35]

Hey, Mick let me rephrase that...... the most important, thing is ...... is the information that the stones have carved onto them.... important? the point I am trying to make is IMO the info on the stones most likely was sourced from an old map .... and whoever made the stones took the info off an old map from an old map......IMO WE have information that links the info on one of the stones to an old map that also links directly to early Spanish, at this time we do not know if they early Jesuit or another early Spanish entity, what we have is undeniable. Before everybody goes off I am telling what we have, I have no hidden agendas, and for business, reasons will save this until later. This is one of our most important links. But I have to be honest I am asking about the stones because I am trying figure who made the original information that was garnered to the stones. What source did they use for the info on the stones? I know they were most likely early Jesuits. Whoever they were they Spanish The information we have comes directly from Spain and is very very old.

why would someone take the time to carve all that mess in stone when you could just draw it on a map?..unless they were trying to con someone or throw them off course?....if these stone maps were spanish or mexican why would they haul them up to arizona?..they have to weigh 20 lbs each...a paper map would have been way lighter and take up less room..the stone maps are bogus and lead nowhere...people have been trying to figure them out for 70 years and not a single person has ever located anything with them except heartache..mysery..divorce...prison...etc

 

[arcana-exploration]

why would someone take the time to carve all that mess in stone when you could just draw it on a map?..unless they were trying to con someone or throw them off course?....if these stone maps were spanish or mexican why would they haul them up to arizona?..they have to weigh 20 lbs each...a paper map would have been way lighter and take up less room..the stone maps are bogus and lead nowhere...people have been trying to figure them out for 70 years and not a single person has ever located anything with them except heartache..mysery..divorce...prison...etc

No, the origanal maps were maps, not stone the Spanish would have done the old paper maps, maybe by the time someone got them into their hands they were deteriorated. Hell no no early Spanish would have hauled them around, as I said we have a very early piece of info that absolutely links to one of the stones, but it does not contain everything on the stones. Somebody for some reason copied on to the stone for what reason no one knows. Thomelson might make sense from a logical, .... just follow along here had an old hid grandfather had an old map Travis copied the map added things and then sold stones to make money..... Just saying ...... Follow this there was an early Thomelson who was a Texas ranger part of his duty time was in the Sonoran area, he was a person of power and may have obtained an early which down into the family that Travis grandfather had it possession, Travis so a chance to make money so he did stones instead OF SECOND NEW MAP, stones at that could be designed as old paper not so much so.......just saying who has a better theory I would like to hear...........but of not! the early Spanish would have done a map not stones, a map they could conceal .... the stones are modern area....... Everybody is again missing my point it is the info on the stones who cares who carved them..... in earlier some gives a map through the mountains and says Cumberland Gap and your the first one to use to see if it works you do not give a dam who did the map only if the info gets you to the finish line. whew

 

[azdave35]

No, the origanal maps were maps, not stone the Spanish would have done the old paper maps, maybe by the time someone got them into their hands they were deteriorated. Hell no no early Spanish would have hauled them around, as I said we have a very early piece of info that absolutely links to one of the stones, but it does not contain everything on the stones. Somebody for some reason copied on to the stone for what reason no one knows. Thomelson might make sense from a logical, .... just follow along here had an old hid grandfather had an old map Travis copied the map added things and then sold stones to make money..... Just saying ...... Follow this there was an early Thomelson who was a Texas ranger part of his duty time was in the Sonoran area, he was a person of power and may have obtained an early which down into the family that Travis grandfather had it possession, Travis so a chance to make money so he did stones instead OF SECOND NEW MAP, stones at that could be designed as old paper not so much so.......just saying who has a better theory I would like to hear...........but of not! the early Spanish would have done a map not stones, a map they could conceal .... the stones are modern area....... Everybody is again missing my point it is the info on the stones who cares who carved them..... in earlier some gives a map through the mountains and says Cumberland Gap and your the first one to use to see if it works you do not give a dam who did the map only if the info gets you to the finish line. whew

i haven't got the slightest idea what you are trying to say...tumlinson was a texas ranger?

 

[arcana-exploration]

i haven't got the slightest idea what you are trying to say...tumlinson was a texas ranger?

John Jack Tomlison Texas ranger
Samuel T Tomlinson Texas ranger
Ben T Tomlinson Texas ranger and, ...... other Tomlinson's who rangers and spent time in the Sonoran area, men of influence who might have laid their hands on the early map past down?

Texas Genealogy Trails Buried at Mt hope Carrizo That is as clear as I can make you take it from here. Wayne any thoughts?

 

[somehiker]

John Jack Tomlison Texas ranger
Samuel T Tomlinson Texas ranger
Ben T Tomlinson Texas ranger and, ...... other Tomlinson's who rangers and spent time in the Sonoran area, men of influence who might have laid their hands on the early map past down?

Texas Genealogy Trails Buried at Mt hope Carrizo That is as clear as I can make you take it from here. Wayne any thoughts?

I've posted links to John "Pegleg" Tumlinson's history, as well as to where he was written about in "Coronado's Children" in a number of related topics previously. It's been discussed many times here, and on the other sites as well. Pegleg was a "treasure hunter", like most of us here, and had a collection of maps, aka derroteros (waybills), again like most of us here. I and a few others have speculated that one of these might have been what brought Travis T. to the Sups, and was used by him to find the stones. The answer to that is still up in the air, since the family has never said that to be the case. The "ground map", as RG called it, might be be the one that fits the bill. However, despite his claim that it has been authenticated by the Jesuit Order, it very well be a fake as well. He had a gridded and clearly self-drawn map of the sups that covered a larger area from below Florence Junction to well north of the mountains, and east of Roosevelt Lake to near Phoenix in the west, same as the ground map was described by RG. This I suspect, may have been Travis' "blueprint" for the GM, just like the drawings of the small stones were used by Travis to carve the small stones....as witnessed and described by family members in past testimony.

 

[wrmickel1]

why would someone take the time to carve all that mess in stone when you could just draw it on a map?..unless they were trying to con someone or throw them off course?....if these stone maps were spanish or mexican why would they haul them up to arizona?..they have to weigh 20 lbs each...a paper map would have been way lighter and take up less room..the stone maps are bogus and lead nowhere...people have been trying to figure them out for 70 years and not a single person has ever located anything with them except heartache..mysery..divorce...prison...etc

Dave

They traveled nowhere your in Mexico.

Wrmickel1

 

[arcana-exploration]

I've posted links to John "Pegleg" Tumlinson's history, as well as to where he was written about in "Coronado's Children" in a number of related topics previously. It's been discussed many times here, and on the other sites as well. Pegleg was a "treasure hunter", like most of us here, and had a collection of maps, aka derroteros (waybills), again like most of us here. I and a few others have speculated that one of these might have been what brought Travis T. to the Sups, and was used by him to find the stones. The answer to that is still up in the air, since the family has never said that to be the case. The "ground map", as RG called it, might be be the one that fits the bill. However, despite his claim that it has been authenticated by the Jesuit Order, it very well be a fake as well. He had a gridded and clearly self-drawn map of the sups that covered a larger area from below Florence Junction to well north of the mountains, and east of Roosevelt Lake to near Phoenix in the west, same as the ground map was described by RG. This I suspect, may have been Travis' "blueprint" for the GM, just like the drawings of the small stones were used by Travis to carve the small stones....as witnessed and described by family members in past testimony.

Thanks, Wayne Great info on that site. It seems that Travis had to have some involvement in some way. Wayne the thing that always gets me is when people say they are fake define fake in what way. To my way of thinking is it is not that important who did them, whether that is Travis or someone else. I believe there is a 60% he did the big ones and 80 %+ chance he did the smaller grey ones...... that being said, am I the only one that is concerned more about what is on the stones? The information on at least 2 I said one earlier I meant 2 stones are relevant, absolutely, so our question is, ok who supplied, the original, information. We have an Idea because of what have and feel with a lot of digging in the future someone may be able to figure that out. I probably, should not even go there, because I am going to get prove it and we will, and honestly I can hardly wait. I think the place to look to find the map maker is very early, Tomlinson ( Way before Travis) and especially early Rangers and who they had associations with. I feel there is a 65% chance that that would point to the old mapmaker, and possibly lead to the first Anglos to find the Alpha mine. AAA Maybe a year from now I will have time and look down that road, I just have no time right ' and I need to stay off here so I can get some other things done.

 

[wrmickel1]

All the Stones are relevant, And Travis did not make them.

Wrmickel1

 

[arcana-exploration]

All the Stones are relevant, And Travis did not make them.

Wrmickel1

So who are your the leading candidates? I am sure all the stones are relevant, but so far I have been able to tie two of them directly to the information from Spain, in time which I do not have right now, I am sure I can link the others. Because I have the doorway.

 

[wrmickel1]

So who are your the leading candidates? I am sure all the stones are relevant, but so far I have been able to tie two of them directly to the information from Spain, in time which I do not have right now, I am sure I can link the others. Because I have the doorway.

Jesuits

 

[arcana-exploration]

Jesuits

tr


True that. take it to the bank.